I've done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

[LEDmodMan]

I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

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OK, now that I've gotten that out of my system... Yes I am now officially a member of the lame Luxeon club in the highest standing!

Here's what happened:
I obtained this W3 from a trusted source, and based on it's output, I believe it was indeed a W3. It resided in my 9v 5W mod that uses 12 AA batteries here. It was a much nicer LED than the original SE I used, and the color was WHITE!!! I have run two whole sets of batteries through this W3 HD, and after having been camping for almost a week, the batteries needed to be replaced.

Fine, same as ususal. Replace batteries, as done twice before on the same LED, turn light on. Wow, now that's how it's supposed to look, really bright! Wait a minute, what just happened? Ten seconds after the light was switched on, it instantly dimmed substantially. That's not right, turn light off. Hmm... Strange. Turn light back on, still dim. Then, flicker, flicker, NOTHING!!!

I take the head off of the light. I looked at the LED carefully, tested it on the meter, yes, it's getting power, about 8.8 volts. But I am getting nearly open circuit resistance. That can't be good. Next, inspect the LED with a 20x jewelers loupe. The gold lead wires are both intact. The LED looks normal until I get it under some better light. Under one corner of the phosphor the die looks odd, and the phosphor has lifted up a bit. I shine a MadMax+ with Q3L onto it for some real light. Enough to penetrate the phosphor some and see what was wrong. One of the 4 LEDs on the die had cracked in half! Stomach sinks... $25 down the drain. Ouch. Wife is going to be pissed.

After the initial shock subsided I decided to take a closer look. It's ruined anyway, so why not learn a thing or two. After all, that's how we all are right? Take it apart and figure out how it works (broken or not). I pop the HD lens off with a small pair of pliers. Suprisingly, the lead wires remained intact though this. So I think to myself, maybe I can jump the LED and get the other three to light, albeit in blue as the phosphor came off with the lens. No joy, it doesn't work. Oh well. I clean off the die with some alcohol and a swab. Here's an interesting tidbit. If you look very closely near one of the gold lead wires on the die, you'll see a + etched into the silicone. Yes, a +, plain as day. I assume this is the positive lead side of the die, and Lumileds is marking it for reference. To the naked eye, this + is a mere black speck on the corner of the die.

Anyway, with the + on the bottom left (the positive side of the die is on the left then), it was very easy to see that the top left emitter had cracked in half. Trashed now, so what the heck, maybe I can pop the die off of the slug. First, the black plastic around the slug came off, leaving only the oval slug and emitter post. Now this should be really easy. NOT!!! The first time I tried to pop the die off, a thin layer of what appeared to be silicone popped off of the die. This was the part that had cracked, and what you see when looking at a good 5w (the "grill" as it's been called). Now the die underneath this piece doesn't looks anything like what just came off of it. You could see the emitter juctions, or at least that's what they appeared to be. So that's how they do it, a sandwich of two pieces of silicone. The top piece was very thin, but the piece attached to the slug is quite a bit thicker, and I never did get it off of the slug. At least I learned something thorough all of this. Sorry there's not any pics, I was pissed off and on a mission. Besides, I couldn't magnify them enough to show what I was seeing anyway. @#$%!

 

[Badbeams3]

Re: I\'ve done it, I killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

Ouch. In the quest for ever brighter light a little darkness will fall. But you now have a great understanding of the make up of these lights...and it is informative for all CPF members. Guess the only thing to do from here is order and install another one...maybe drop the voltage a bit to prevent this from happening again. Does da wife have to know? I think you have suffered enough! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[shiftd]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

Man, that sucks. I also killed a U3U lux. $25 for a W3 lux? that was pretty cheap.
Can you tell us the who is "trusted source" ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

 

[Orion]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I killed a 5 watt LS last night too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I was trying to get it off of the heat sink and it broke apart, the metal part from the black plastic part. It still flickers a bit, but the last time I tried it, only one die was flickering. I was VERY mad at myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

The SAD thing is, it was in my 2D Maglite with the 6AA, reflector type setup, and was pretty decent in brightness. An expensive messup, that's for sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

 

[LEDmodMan]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

The W3 hd is from an unnamed source. I got it at their cost. I had to promise not to disclose where I got it. Unfortunately, it was a one time only, single unit deal. Yes, I am really pissed off about this one, as it will be extremely difficult/impossible to get another one. Crap!!!

 

[stangster]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

So how exactly did you kill it?
Too much power for too long?

 

[LEDmodMan]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

Not sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif It went through two whole sets of brand new batteries, then right after I put in the third set and turned it on, it died. All the batteries were out of the same box from Costco.

 

[Orion]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

Well, looks like yours is a bit of a mystery. I know exactly what caused mine to be ruined. . . . . . Me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It's sad because of the cost and the hard time finding good ones, so I can really feel for you that you lost a W. I think I would puke if it happened to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

I want to replace it, but I wish I could find a better bin then what is currently out there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

 

[Doug S]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

In reference to "Absolute Maximum Ratings", semiconductor datasheets usually include words to this effect:

"Absolute Maximum Ratings are those values beyond which the life of the device may be impaired".

It looks like there might be something to this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[lambda]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

Yes, a word of sensible caution to anyone with any 9V 5W direct drive:

If you look at almost any run time chart for any flashlight, you will notice that in the first 3-5 minutes fresh batteries really kick out the juice. It takes a few minutes for the cell voltage to drop a little. If you restrict operation to short 10-15 sec burst with a short rest period in between, you can greatly extend the life of your Luxeon; both life span and lumen maintenace.

While most Luxeons can handle this surge, you're really not doing it any favors, and are also quickly reducing the lumen output you would enjoy otherwise.

So, break those fresh batteries in with some short 10 sec operation burst with a 10 sec rest period in between. Do this to acumulate about 2 to 3 min total run time and take the "edge" off the cells. Your Luxeon will last longer, and burn brighter longer....

 

[lemlux]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

running serial parallel with 2 * 6 alkaline AA's you will probably suffer less voltage drop than you will with 1 * 6 D alkaline cells,

 

[lambda]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD...

Yep, using 12AA cells it most likely keeps that initial surge voltage up there twice as long as 6AAs.

NiMh are really best anyway. No big voltage in the begining, and actually stay brighter longer than alkalines.

Oh, and LEDmodMan, sorry to hear about your loss. That was one very nice flashlight.

 

[flash....]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

I did the exact same thing a month or two ago... lost it the same way. Went dim then flicker, flicker and poof it was gone /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
How hard you drive them is directly related to their lifespan.
Lambda's advice is sound and will help from really making the span very short... but everyone must be forewarned... the 1000hr mtbf figure is for "rated" voltage current with proper heatsinking...
In essance if you don't change a thing and get another LS of the exact same bin... most likely you will get similar lifespan results based on the environment you have created. The 1 watters are much more tolerant to over driving than the 5 watters but of course they are nowhere as much fun.

Has anyone done a direct drive on a 5D alk 5w?? it is a mod Im planning and was curious if anyone (who might cross this thread) has done this config and could give me a life span so far figure... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks!

 

[LEDmodMan]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

Well back in the original SE will go, until I can get a new HD. Who knows, with direct drive on 9v something like this was bound to happen to someone. I knew the risks... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif What can you do? I thought that it was weird that it died so fast on the new set of batteries (only after about 7-8 seconds), but it was probably that initial higher output that sent it off to the Luxeon heaven. Oh well, lesson learned, but it'll probably be ignored in the future. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif At least I learned a thing or two about the 5W LS's in general by dissecting it!!!

 

[Rothrandir]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

wow man...that sucks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

i killed a 5w royal blue in a 5d mag.

i got tired of the huge mag size, so i was going to transplant it into a mag 2d.
i tried to pry it off, but everything but the slug came off!

now normally, this would have been great becuse i could machine a whole new slug, and create a flashlight with only one thermal joint! but the die got crinkled in the process /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
i hooked it up to 4.5v, and it lit up, but i wasn't able to tell if it was damaged other than cosmetically.

 

[B@rt]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

I have a 5w-6D light, and I haven't nearly gone through a single set of batteries. Total runtime is, uh.... maybe 10 minutes. It's just too big for me to EDC w/o getting funny looks. (well, more than I get normally...)

 

[Rothrandir]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

i'd imagine that black/blue cloth on top of your head gets you plenty /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

i agree...the 5d just didn't get enough use...

 

[Slick]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

Wow, sorry to hear you lost such a nice Luxeon... But if you REALLY think about it, there are quite a few 9V direct drive lights out there with not too many noted failures. So if you take that into consideration, it's pretty hard to reach a consensous that these Luxeons are easy to kill..

Yes, I know that still doesn't make you feel any better about it, but I'm still not all that paranoid about blowing mine up. I think ya just got a "weaker" Luxeon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

I have a good friend that has a royal blue SGK, and he absolutely abuses the crap outta that thing! I can't even believe it's still living. I wonder if the non-white luxeons are any more or less durable - or the same?

 

[hotbeam]

Re: I\'ve done it, killed a W3 binned white 5w HD..

Yeah, too bad about killing a W3!! Man, you must have felt like you've been robbed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I killed my U5U breaking the cardinal rule with Luxeons - inadequate heatsinking. Hmmm... Expensive lesson. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif