KD "lockblock" not bad..

[wildstar87]

I just got one of these today. It's very comparable in quality to the two-fish lockblock. Just thought people might be interested in this group. Of course you do have to deal with KD, but *shock* they actually seem to being trying to get better, I actually received this in less than a month, that must be a record.. Though the "engrish" is showing in the title of this item..

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6267

 

[carrot]

Why reward clone manufacturers when the real thing is so affordable? Don't buy fakes, buy from the originator of the design!

 

[wildstar87]

Well I dunno that I would call $15 for 3 pieces of rubber affordable, but to each his own. I was just reporting on it, if you don't like it you don't have to buy it.

I'm far from complimentary about KD for the most part, and I have bought "original" lockblocks in the past, I just thought I would pass this information on. People buy a lot of different stuff from the KD/DX, so not sure why this is any different.

 

[csshih]

sorry, carrot, not to start a war, but, some of us here are trying to get things as cheap as possible.. we don't have all that much money to spend.

 

[carrot]

Integrity.

 

[Illum]

Integrity.

only exists when your not in a hurry

 

[greenLED]

I wasn't aware bike lights could get cramps.

 

[270winchester]

KD is famous for their "knock offs", no surprise there.

 

[Benson]

Why reward clone manufacturers when the real thing is so affordable? Don't buy fakes, buy from the originator of the design!

I guess I'm missing something, because I don't see anything fake about it. It's not labeled "two-fish", "lockblock", or even "rockbrock", it's labeled "bicycle lights cramp", and while I'm not sure it's the original cramp, it's hardly a fake cramp. "Copy", yes. "Fake", no.

You can set whatever standards you like for your "integrity", but please respect the meanings of the words you use to express them.

Integrity.

only exists when your not in a hurry

Actually, I thought you'd order it from KD if you're not in a hurry? Or are the places that sell two-fish products even slower?

 

[carrot]

Yes, please do argue about semantics when you actually do get the point I am trying to make.

 

[GarageBoy]

Forget it carrot, this isn't a forum that really cares about integrity , check out all the SF clones, etc

 

[wildstar87]

Not to pour more gas on the flames here, but don't be so high and mighty, I have bought stuff from US distributors as well as non-US, even some of the ones that everyone raves over here. My experiences haven't been overwhelmingly great with some US companies either, especially when they rape you on shipping. They charge you $6 to ship a small little item, and when the box comes it says $.95 on the shipping label. Talk about integrity..

 

[jankj]

... when they rape you on shipping. They charge you $6 to ship a small little item, and when the box comes it says $.95 on the shipping label.

That is shipping and handling, not shipping alone. Handling is whatever it costs for someone to physically wrap your gadget in paper and stick a label to it. That someone may have been replaced by an automatic wrapping and labeling machine (if such a thing exists) - but that machine needs an investment to buy it, power to run it, paper and other stuff fed into it. Handling also includes costs of whatever routines they have to keep track of your order, your payment and so on. Nothing comes for free.

Some vendors have low prices and then they make sure they make a profit by having high shipping & handling fees. Another vendor may have higher prices but a lower S&H fee. Someone else may have no S&H fee at all - but that means that their S&H cost are included in the price. Nothing - particular S&H - comes for free. Vendors that think so quickly go out of business.

Vote with your money - go to whichever vendor you like. They all make sure they make profit from your purchase. YOUR money - or rather, the tiny fraction of it they can keep for them selves (aka profit) - is what keeps them in business.

 

[wildstar87]

I know nothing comes for free. I guess my point here is that I was just pointing something out that some people might like as another option, and it turned into a general "integrity" argument seemingly against non-US dealers, or the "accepted" dealers that are trumpeted by CPFers.

I was just saying just because they are local, doesn't mean they are necessarily any better, and then pointing out an example.

I see people pointing out deals all the time on this forum, why this one got singled out for a religious war I have no idea. Maybe I'll just keep my findings to myself next time. I'm sure Carrot believes that I should.:shrug:

 

[carrot]

Everyone has a right to an opinion, even if they're wrong.

I guess it seems that I didn't quite get my point across clearly. I believe that the originator and manufacturer of a design should be justly rewarded for their hard work. If clone manufacturers were the ones constantly and consistently rewarded there would be no incentive to make something new, better, and greater, only to constantly make cheaper knockoffs.

Of course competitors are free to make competing products that offer their own spin on things but when there is no feature or design distinguishment then to me that is clearly taking too much from other people's work without contribution of your own.

For example, awhile back I had a problem with the Jetbeam M3T clone. It clearly tries to take the aesthetics of the Surefire M3T when there is no need to do so -- other lights such as the Wolf-Eyes E3 and Streamlight TL3 manage to come up with completely original designs whereas Jetbeam can do no better than simply "borrow" another design. In order to distinguish itself Jetbeam merely takes the M3T and melds on a few other Surefire designs that are practically trademark to the company!

Here, with the lockblock knockoffs we see clearly that no attempt has been made to deviate or improve upon the original design whatsoever. The only purpose here is to undercut the original designer and manufacturer that took great risks and spent money on R&D in order to create such a thing and this is what I cannot stand.

If you look into the origin of the rechargeable 123's you will find that one of our members and a good friend of mine nearly bankrupted himself creating them and ended up getting ripped off and his designs stolen by the very manufacturers in China that he contracted to make them.

In the grand scheme of things I could care less about point of origin, or even the location of dealers -- I care most for credit being given where credit is due.

 

[f22shift]

is lockblocks patented?

 

[270winchester]

I guess my point here is that I was just pointing something out that some people might like as another option, and it turned into a general "integrity" argument seemingly against non-US dealers, or the "accepted" dealers that are trumpeted by CPFers.

you don't get it, do you?

A product currently for is being closely copied and the copies are being sold for cheaper to undercut the original.

I was just saying just because they are local, doesn't mean they are necessarily any better, and then pointing out an example.

nice side tracking.

I see people pointing out deals all the time on this forum, why this one got singled out for a religious war I have no idea. Maybe I'll just keep my findings to myself next time. I'm sure Carrot believes that I should.:shrug:

if you can't distinguish between "good deals" versus copying and undercutting, I'm not sure what anyone can say that would remedy that.


JSB's ordeal is definitely a great example of the problem with this issue, but I doubt the new comers even know who JSBurly is.

 

[Benson]

I guess it seems that I didn't quite get my point across clearly. I believe that the originator and manufacturer of a design should be justly rewarded for their hard work. If clone manufacturers were the ones constantly and consistently rewarded there would be no incentive to make something new, better, and greater, only to constantly make cheaper knockoffs.

Not true, if the cloners have some minimum turnaround time. It does increase the incentive to produce things cheaper, but that's good. It in no way removes the incentive to develop new products, because there's two ways to profit: produce the cheapest clones around, or constantly ship new/improved products as your older ones get cloned.

If you can eliminate cheap copies, you allow any company with one innovation or good product to sit around making the same product until it's obsolete, and remain profitable without innovation or efficient production. With your proposed allowance for other manufacturers to make improved, but not simply copied, versions, the incentive to innovate is somewhat restored, but there's still reduced price competition.

As it is, US patent law provides an adequate delay for domestic competitors to prevent the instaclone problem (though IMHO the delay is actually rather too long). US patent law doesn't apply to the Chinese manufacturers under discussion here, but there is a substantial delay for them to identify a particular product as cloneworthy, begin production, and get it listed on the usual overseas retailers, so your instaclone argument is still unrealistic. (Except for anyone foolish enough to contract their production out to a Chinese manufacturer, and expect it not to show up as knock-off competition -- congrats on giving them a head-start. )

Here, with the lockblock knockoffs we see clearly that no attempt has been made to deviate or improve upon the original design whatsoever. The only purpose here is to undercut the original designer and manufacturer that took great risks and spent money on R&D in order to create such a thing and this is what I cannot stand.

Well, the only purpose is to make money. That presumably was twofish's purpose as well, and so they should have been doing that by factoring their risks and R&D costs into the price. If they're so stupid as to be unable to predict cheap knockoffs once their product becomes an established success, or to not set their prices high enough to break even before the clone flood hits, I don't think I owe them any sympathy.

 

[270winchester]

so either way you have no problem with buying the knock off. Congradulations on your rationalizing abilities.

As it is, US patent law provides an adequate delay for domestic competitors to prevent the instaclone problem (though IMHO the delay is actually rather too long). US patent law doesn't apply to the Chinese manufacturers under discussion here, but there is a substantial delay for them to identify a particular product as cloneworthy, begin production, and get it listed on the usual overseas retailers, so your instaclone argument is still unrealistic. (Except for anyone foolish enough to contract their production out to a Chinese manufacturer, and expect it not to show up as knock-off competition -- congrats on giving them a head-start. )

Well, the only purpose is to make money. That presumably was twofish's purpose as well, and so they should have been doing that by factoring their risks and R&D costs into the price. If they're so stupid as to be unable to predict cheap knockoffs once their product becomes an established success, or to not set their prices high enough to break even before the clone flood hits, I don't think I owe them any sympathy.

 

[wildstar87]

Well so much for this forum not having people making personal attacks, and being nasty. Thanks for becoming like every other person on the internet, feeling perfectly fine insulting someone, just because you can, and believe you are right.

Whatever, I made my point, those who appreciated being pointed in the direction is fine. It's made by Huntlight if you look carefully, I thought that was a somewhat respected brand, but whatever.

So I'm sure all of you on your high horses have NEVER EVER bought any product that has been a clone of anything.. Hmm... Do you own a PC? If you do, then you are a big fat hypocrite. You should buy from IBM, and only IBM, whatever the price is.

You have your justifications, I didn't start this thread as a personal attack against anyone... YOU did..