Youfoundnemo
Enlightened
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Knock offs?
- Thread starter Youfoundnemo
- Start date
SureFire does (did) make a 12P at one point and there are some M3T and M4 phonys around. I haven't seen any fake M6s yet though but if someone thought there was a market for it, well......
The fake turboheads I saw all had a different type of lamp assembly than a real SureFire.
The fake turboheads I saw all had a different type of lamp assembly than a real SureFire.
Personally, I have no trouble with knockoffs of any kind.:p
I think they have a place in the retail market especially for those on a fixed or low income. They allow everyday folks to experience the mental satisfaction of a high end item without the high end.
There are knockoffs and there are knockoffs. I have several knockoff watches that are in some respects much better than their progenitors.
I don't see what all the fuss is about. If one is rich one can buy the original and squirrel it away in the jewelry safe with all the other gewgaw that they are afraid to wear or lose.:rolleyes:
I think they have a place in the retail market especially for those on a fixed or low income. They allow everyday folks to experience the mental satisfaction of a high end item without the high end.
There are knockoffs and there are knockoffs. I have several knockoff watches that are in some respects much better than their progenitors.
I don't see what all the fuss is about. If one is rich one can buy the original and squirrel it away in the jewelry safe with all the other gewgaw that they are afraid to wear or lose.:rolleyes:
These foreign companies should not be allowed to make and import these "exact Knockoffs" into the U.S. If an American company did it, they would be Sued right out of business.
It allows for dishonest folks to make money on fakes. IMO the Government needs to do a lot more, to keep this stuff out of the U.S. If they are going to copy a product, they need to do it so you can tell its not the genuine article. A lot of these things are copied right down to the logo and patent number. Tough to tell real from fake. :shakehead
It allows for dishonest folks to make money on fakes. IMO the Government needs to do a lot more, to keep this stuff out of the U.S. If they are going to copy a product, they need to do it so you can tell its not the genuine article. A lot of these things are copied right down to the logo and patent number. Tough to tell real from fake. :shakehead
You have no trouble with stealing? You rationalize that's its OK so that people can have mental satisfaction?
Don't know how knock-offs of any kind offer any sort of satisfaction that the real versions do. You don't get the brand name, you don't get the function, and you don't get the performance. All you do get is a piece of junk that you just wasted $xxx on and could have saved towards the real thing.
If I had a Rolex knockoff I would never be able to look at it with pride and think, I have a great watch. I wouldn't even trust it. Since I can't afford a Rolex, I got a Seiko Automatic which keeps time no worse than Swiss automatics but without the prestige and price tag. And I can proudly say I own a very nice watch.
If I had a Rolex knockoff I would never be able to look at it with pride and think, I have a great watch. I wouldn't even trust it. Since I can't afford a Rolex, I got a Seiko Automatic which keeps time no worse than Swiss automatics but without the prestige and price tag. And I can proudly say I own a very nice watch.
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mdocod
Flashaholic
There are a number of "turbo-head" type tactical lights out there from chinese manufactures... Just for the sake of example, check out the L600 and L1200 from SolarForce... these are fairly unique designs that you wouldn't call blatant knock-offs, but certainly are trying to steel a little thunder from the M3t/M4 options...
As for my opinion on "knock-offs" ; I'll say this: Lines have to be drawn somewhere, but there are many components of a flashlight that are not unique to any one flashlight, they all share threads, they are almost all shaped like tubes, and they all use a bulb or LED or HID of some kind with some batteries and maybe some electronics.. The concepts are all free game, but the exact appearance, specific switching methods or other unique design aspects belong to that patent holder and anyone ripping them off should not be supported... I have a hard time with generalizations as each product deserves it's day of judgement to be classified as either a total and complete rip-off or just another design of something that performs a similar task and may share some compatibility...
As for my opinion on "knock-offs" ; I'll say this: Lines have to be drawn somewhere, but there are many components of a flashlight that are not unique to any one flashlight, they all share threads, they are almost all shaped like tubes, and they all use a bulb or LED or HID of some kind with some batteries and maybe some electronics.. The concepts are all free game, but the exact appearance, specific switching methods or other unique design aspects belong to that patent holder and anyone ripping them off should not be supported... I have a hard time with generalizations as each product deserves it's day of judgement to be classified as either a total and complete rip-off or just another design of something that performs a similar task and may share some compatibility...
Well then I think the term "knock offs" might need better definition. Certainly using the same exact "logo" and "patent number" would be completely illegal, but as far as "look alikes", that leaves way too much leeway for anyone to produce something "similar". Even American companies do that much of the time. A good idea is copied many times over, but much of that is legal.
As far as cheap copies, well for those of you making a "good living". I am sure that your original watch or suit or car or whatever, is something you are proud of and that's great for you, but for some of us who will never have that kind of money (yes there are some of us), do we not have the right to have something that looks similar as long as it isn't breaking patent regulations? I think we do.
Not everything that is a "knock off" is total junk. Many things are functional and look good enough for us low lifes and as far as taking away from the wealthy and what they buy, it doesn't hurt their market, because we would have never bought that stuff in the first place, so a sale wasn't lost on us anyhow.....
As far as foriegn companies making that stuff, I have found many of them have "US roots" and US financing or control, so what's that say about us (the seeming majority) in the US letting it happen to begin with? I don't agree with those import tactics either, but that's another story....
nzgunnie
Enlightened
There have been a few M962 weapon light knock offs available, including ones with a turbo head. They are aimed at the airsoft market.
I tried a M900 knock off and it was rubbish! The head was actually quite well made, but the threads were completely different (and even different diameter) to the SF ones. The lamp wasn't an MN type lamp, it was a G60 type lamp that was simply screwed onto a bigger reflector. The wiring in the thing, and the switch design, was so bad it broke almost as soon as I started using it. Complete waste of time. I now have a genuine M961, and wouldn't recommend these look alikes to anyone in a million years.
I know where you are going with this, but I think you will find that the knowk off KT4 turbo heads are not even close to SF threads. I'm not 100% sure, but based on my experience with the knock-off M900, the heads probably wont even take MN lamps, but G60 ones that have the original reflector unscrewed to allow them to be screwed into the 'Turbo' head.
I tried a M900 knock off and it was rubbish! The head was actually quite well made, but the threads were completely different (and even different diameter) to the SF ones. The lamp wasn't an MN type lamp, it was a G60 type lamp that was simply screwed onto a bigger reflector. The wiring in the thing, and the switch design, was so bad it broke almost as soon as I started using it. Complete waste of time. I now have a genuine M961, and wouldn't recommend these look alikes to anyone in a million years.
I know where you are going with this, but I think you will find that the knowk off KT4 turbo heads are not even close to SF threads. I'm not 100% sure, but based on my experience with the knock-off M900, the heads probably wont even take MN lamps, but G60 ones that have the original reflector unscrewed to allow them to be screwed into the 'Turbo' head.
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If a company is upfront about their product being a knock-off, that's one thing. For example, a Made in China 6PL that looks like a Surefire 6PL but with the word "CREE" printed across the barrel. (Even though a real 6PL uses a P4 emitter). That's perfectly fine. The customer knows that he's not getting an actual Surefire....
But if you want a U2, and you find one for half off that looks like a real U2 but is a knock-off; that's a different matter. I've seen knock-offs that even had the Surefire website printed along the top of the tailcap. (Just like the real ones). When it arrives, that's when you notice it only has two brightness settings. Well, that's one way to tell a knock-off from the real thing.
If a light is sold as a cheap imitation and the customer knows it, that's fine. Otherwise, you're getting ripped off.
Just to set the record straight, the "knockoffs" that I refer to in my earlier post are NOT exact copies nor do they bear the trade name or numbers of actual products. They are generic copies and IMHO are not going against the grain of any other manufacturers.
Knockoffs are nothing new and have been around for centuries. A lot of the very wealthy in history have owned knockoff jewelery and other items so they didn't have to risk harming their precious ones nor having them stolen. There are still a lot of celebrities who have rather expensive knockoff pieces on their person.
I feel that owning a "authentic" product is strictly a personal dynamic and that's just fine.
Many countries have been copying products and selling them on the international market for years. Just look at Japan and Russia for examples. Try a Kiev camera and then a Hasselblad. They both take excellent photographs. The original Datsun or lately Nissan was first a near exact copy of a US made Grand Page auto. Look how many buy those today.
Like the Special Man says: "Let em have it!";)
Knockoffs are nothing new and have been around for centuries. A lot of the very wealthy in history have owned knockoff jewelery and other items so they didn't have to risk harming their precious ones nor having them stolen. There are still a lot of celebrities who have rather expensive knockoff pieces on their person.
I feel that owning a "authentic" product is strictly a personal dynamic and that's just fine.
Many countries have been copying products and selling them on the international market for years. Just look at Japan and Russia for examples. Try a Kiev camera and then a Hasselblad. They both take excellent photographs. The original Datsun or lately Nissan was first a near exact copy of a US made Grand Page auto. Look how many buy those today.
Like the Special Man says: "Let em have it!";)
jasonck08
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm cheap... I buy the knock offs and am proud that at cost 1/10 the cost of the real deal. That makes me happy! :D
SureAddicted
Enlightened
That's not always the case, it would cost you more in the long run. A knock off SF 6P for example, you don't get a lifetime warranty. With knock offs something usually always goes wrong with it, whether it be a cross thread or sub par components. It might be cheaper to get the legit product.
jzmtl
Flashlight Enthusiast
I duno where the heck do you buy surefire parts that's cheaper than generic but I know it's not the world I live in. :thinking:
Depends on how much more the real one costs.
SureAddicted
Enlightened
A company that makes knock offs isnt interested in customer satisfaction, QC, quality components, after sales support etc etc. They are in it to make a quick buck. Like I said, something always goes wrong with knock offs, its not a question of if but when. So you end up buying more knock offs because its cheap.
jzmtl
Flashlight Enthusiast
Now you are just exaggerating. Higher percentage than name brand stuff yes but most of them will work.
Youfoundnemo
Enlightened
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jasonck08
Flashlight Enthusiast
If I made 100k a year, I'd buy the real deal. But I don't and so I buy cheap stuff. So far my cheap lights have been Great! Reasonably good quality and I have had ZERO problems with my DX lights. See the whole surefire lifetime warranty thing is funny. Sure they warranty it for lifetime, but in 2-3 years the emitter is obsolete. Sure you can upgrade it DIY style, but that will void the warranty...
Not really.
Of the 11 Surefires I have, 3 were legoed from high quality parts. Only one was less expensive than buying a complete light. My legoed E1E was put together using the no-longer-needed head off of my E2E, a slightly used body & tailcap from an older E1E that another CPFer was selling on the MarketPlace, a 3v. Lumens Factory lamp, and a new CR123A cell.
So how much did I save instead of buying a brand new SF E1E.... $1
Yup, a buck. (I ran the numbers more than once). And keep in mind that I already had the head. If I had to pay for that part seperately, I'd be just over $20 in the red.
The other 2 are a Leef-bodied M4 and a Leef-bodied 9P. I had to buy all of the parts seperately for both of the lights. And I definitely got lucky with the M4. I had purchased the 2x18650, C-M Leef body first. Then ran into a CPFer who was parting out his stock M4. I got everything but the stock M4 body. To be honest, it still makes my head hurt when I think about how much I spent on my legoed M4. It actually would have been quite a bit cheaper to buy a stock M4, and then buy the Leef body for it.
My Legoed 9P was not as bad. However, C-series bezels are quite a bit less expensive and easier to come by than M-series turbo heads.
Surefire LED heads tend to be priced awfully close to complete lights. For example, you can buy a KX2C head for $135.oo or for just $14 more; you can buy a Surefire E2DL complete light. (Unless you really hate strike-bezels or two modes on your light, it's a rather easy choice).
