L0D(-CE) on 10440 Li-Ion - Maybe there should be a big fat WARNING about this?

[Verve]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what IS the best battery to use (preferably non-rechargable), giving the maximum brightness.

 

[WildChild]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what IS the best battery to use (preferably non-rechargable), giving the maximum brightness.

The best is NiMH. With alkaline you will get half-poor performances, at least poor on high. And the best of all is with Lithium 1.5V AAA non-rechargeable but they are expensive! All of those are compatible with it and there won't be any problem with them!

 

[Verve]

The best is NiMH. With alkaline you will get half-poor performances, at least poor on high. And the best of all is with Lithium 1.5V AAA non-rechargeable but they are expensive! All of those are compatible with it and there won't be any problem with them!

Thanks, WildChild! Just checked out the Lithium 1.5V's at Batterystation.com - $2.50 a pop. That's certainly pricey but I don't use my light that much so it's probably the best way to go. Thanks again.

 

[45/70]

With all this voltage discussion I thought I'd mention that 3.6-3.7 Volt Li-Ions are 4.2 volts fully charged. A Li-Ion at 3.6 Volts is just about dead. It's similar to the 1.2 Volt designation of nickel based batteries. They are usually about 1.4 Volts charged. At 1.2 Volts, they are about dead as well.

Dave

 

[MillerMods]

With all this voltage discussion I thought I'd mention that 3.6-3.7 Volt Li-Ions are 4.2 volts fully charged. A Li-Ion at 3.6 Volts is just about dead. It's similar to the 1.2 Volt designation of nickel based batteries. They are usually about 1.4 Volts charged. At 1.2 Volts, they are about dead as well.

Dave

Those are peak unloaded voltages. The operating voltage under a fair load (say 200mA+) will cause the cell to yeild the nominal voltage. A Li-ion that shouldn't see more than 600mA for a maximum life span may have less than the nominal voltage output of 3.6V if greater loads are applied.

EDIT:

Back with some test results. Using my Fluke 76 DMM I measured the voltage across a freshly charged and almost new Li-ion 10440 cell using a couple of jumper wires and some effort to hold everything in place while the Fenix L0D CE head was being powered by the cell. I toggled through the levels and this is what I recorded:

On medium, the cell voltage was ~3.9 volts
On low, the cell voltage was ~3.99 volts
On high, the cell voltage dropped to 3.7 volts and was gradually decending.

The reason this occurs is because of the cells internal resistance and the fact that the internal resistance increases as the charge decreases.

 

[MountainMan]

Thanks, WildChild! Just checked out the Lithium 1.5V's at Batterystation.com - $2.50 a pop. That's certainly pricey but I don't use my light that much so it's probably the best way to go. Thanks again.

SAM'S CLUB has the Energizer E2 Lithium AAA for less than $10 a dozen.

 

[mdocod]

I'm glad someone started a thread like this..

THE SAME WARNING NEEDS TO BE MADE FOR ALL SUPER-SMALL LIGHTS THAT USE LI-ION. The Orbs are really a great example of a dangerous production flashlight. They are pushing 3-4C on some setups there.

the problems is that for every 10 threads that suggest the use of li-ion, maybe only 1-2 mentions that they are dangerous... We as CPFers need to take it upon ourselves to educate newcomers.... if someone asks about li-ion, explain that they can be used responsibly, point them in the direction of the highest quality protected cells available(AW, PILA, WE,), and link to the lithium battery threads of interest.

 

[matrixshaman]

I've worried about the possible dangers of running Li-ion in my L0D -CE too, but it's just too bright not too!

O.K. so you're going to void to warranty of the light anyways so here's my thought:

If the cell does vent, that's bad but what's worse is not knowing it and having it blow up in your hand, right? So if you must run your L0D on Li-ion cells then drill a small 3/32" hole in the center of the tail end and plug it with a tiny rubber plug. This way if the Li-ion cell does vent then you have a rocket instead of a bomb!

As far as only getting maybe 50 charges to 80% capacity instead of 300-500 cycles, just buy extra's, they're inexpensive anyways.

I like your thinking on this - drill a hole to make a rocket instead of a bomb Really - that is something I would say - that and just go for max brightness whatever it takes

 

[45/70]

Those are peak unloaded voltages. The operating voltage under a fair load (say 200mA+) will cause the cell to yeild the nominal voltage. A Li-ion that shouldn't see more than 600mA for a maximum life span may have less than the nominal voltage output of 3.6V if greater loads are applied.

Yeah, OK. As per your results, the 10440's should be fine then, particularly at the high level. Mighty close on low though. Better be carefull, just use medium and high. :naughty:

Just messin' wid ya MM.

Dave

 

[EngrPaul]

SAM'S CLUB has the Energizer E2 Lithium AAA for less than $10 a dozen.

Are you sure that's not "less than $20?" Typically big box clubs sell AA's for around $1.70 each on average.

If you are getting that kind of deal, you should start your own business marking them up and selling them here...

 

[Dobbler]

So L0D-CE + 10440 = BAD or ???

 

[2xTrinity]

SAM'S CLUB has the Energizer E2 Lithium AAA for less than $10 a dozen.

Are you sure that was the Lithium one, and not just the regular E2 battery (which is premium alkaline)? The regular E2 though WILL work a lot better for a lot of these lights than typical alkaline cells, as it is designed for higher drain applications, but not quite as good as quality NiMH/Lithium. E2 is what I've used in my single-cell AA/AAA lights as they're still fairly cheap, and perform quite well. Also, since a lot of one-cell AA/AAA lights are gifts, or will be stashed, the long shelf-life is an advantage over NiMH rechargeable -- though for an EDC light I always use rechargeable (since i'm in the habit of carrying a light every day, habitually charging cells for it is no problem)

However, at the rate a lot of our gadgets suck these AAA batteries dry (particularly our universal remote, which is radio not IR), we've decided to buy a good multi-bay NiMH charger and set of batteries.

 

[BMRSEB]

I use the 10440 in my L0D-CE but the high is only used to "show-off". The Primary is bright enough with the 10440.

 

[gilles44]

I hesitated between li-ion and nimh for an 1AA flaslight.
I don't hesitate any more, I will go for NIMH, even if I have less power.
I ignored li-ion was so dangerous (I am not yet Flashaholic but I become...).
Thanks to CPF.

Gilles

 

[2xTrinity]

I hesitated between li-ion and nimh for an 1AA flaslight.
I don't hesitate any more, I will go for NIMH, even if I have less power.
I ignored li-ion was so dangerous (I am not yet Flashaholic but I become...).
Thanks to CPF.

Gilles

Yeah, I personally don't see the need to push so much light out of a tiny little flashlight -- might as well carry a CR123 light if you want maximum output in a small package IMO as there the battery can handle it, and there is enough heatsinking for the LED to run at reasonable temperature. Besides, the L0D CE is still an absolutely amazing product even on NiMH -- it's brighter than most commonly owned 2D flashlights, but on a keychain! If I need more light than that, 1xCR123 and 1x18650 LED lights running Cree/Seoul emitters are still compact and easy to carry, and designed to use maximum output.

 

[LED_Thrift]

From what this half-educated flashaholic knows, Li-Ion cell chemistry is 3.7v output. Some RCR-123a size batteries use a circuit to cut the working voltage down to ~3v, after a brief [12 milisecond ] burst at 3.7v. These work on many lights that would not work well using a 3.7v battery. Can't the same principle be used to make 1.5v [or even up to ~ 2v] protected rechargable Li-Ions from chemistries that normally give 3.7v? Then we could have brighter lights, low running costs, AND safety!

 

[DM51]

Another problem is that there are no PROTECTED Li-Ion 10440s. nobody makes protected 10440s (or 10280s etc) because the 10mm diameter is too small to fit a PCB.

People who are new to Li-Ions and don't know the potential dangers could over-discharge these cells and then have them blow when recharging.