LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

[guggie]

Re: LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...NEW ADAPTER ARRIVED

Got the new adapter today. It's heavier than the old one, slightly beefier molding at the charger/plug end. The prongs for the wall are now a module that snaps in, presumably for compatibility with foreign outlets. The voltage output is now 3.02V (no load). I'm charging with it now at 200ma and no smoke yet! :candle:

 

[ValVe]

guggie,

At 200 mA the heat dissipation is no more than 0.5W on each mosfet, which is completely acceptable. So it's neither interesting nor useful. The old adapter was working fine enough with low currents.

Please try 4 * 1A and 2 * 1.8A -- that would be really interesting, as 0.2V decrease seems like a pathetic attempt to step back a little from the brim of extinction.

Heat buildup is most intensive when cell voltage is as low as possible.

Of course, no fans or draughts, and watch your unit closely -- the softened up buttons are a sure sign of impending thermal runaway and meltdown.

 

[FlashPilot]

FlashPilot:

Is your charger using the IV (recalled) wall wart power supply? What is its output voltage?

Yes, type IV recall. Its output is 3.20 volts. I will retest once I get the new one.

 

[guggie]

guggie,


Please try 4 * 1A and 2 * 1.8A -- that would be really interesting, as 0.2V decrease seems like a pathetic attempt to step back a little from the brim of extinction.

Uhh, no thanks. I don't want to charge my new Eneloops or any old cell for that matter, at .5C to almost 1C. Nothing to be gained except for shorter battery life. I usually charge at about .25C so the 500ma setting works well.

 

[ValVe]

Uhh, no thanks. I don't want to charge my new Eneloops or any old cell for that matter, at .5C to almost 1C. Nothing to be gained except for shorter battery life. I usually charge at about .25C so the 500ma setting works well.

But we'll never know if the new PSU solves the problem then...

 

[MarioJP]

But we'll never know if the new PSU solves the problem then...

From what I heard even at 500mA caused the charger to melt

 

[DieselDave]

I wish I would have researched more before ordering. I ordered the 700 but the seller called me and said they were all gone but he had the 9009 so I took it. I've only had it two weeks and it's the recalled power supply. Live and learn, on the shelf for a month. I must say I didn't get any overheating issues at 500 and below. I refreshed most of my AA's before I found this thread, ignorance is bliss.

 

[vali]

Uhh, no thanks. I don't want to charge my new Eneloops or any old cell for that matter, at .5C to almost 1C. Nothing to be gained except for shorter battery life. I usually charge at about .25C so the 500ma setting works well.

So a reliable termination signal is not a gain for you?. I dont try to start again another discussion about chargin rates, but if someone who dont know what charge current to use may think "lower is better" according to this comment. Check what can happen here -> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/262366

 

[uk_caver]

Check what can happen here ->

But what actually happens depends on the charger.
If a given charger consistently terminates well at lower rates, that trumps general observations on cell behaviour.

 

[MarioJP]

I once did a test and charge the cells at 200mA. Charger did terminated and did not overcharge. But man is too slow for me. How do you guys have this much patience lol.

 

[ValVe]

Well, as for the charge current -- I have a Robiton Smart 3000 charger, which can only charge AAs with 3A current and AAAs with 1A, but has active cooling, and no discharge or refresh or anything fancy.

I've been charging almost all my cells in it for almost a year - hundreds of cycles - and they've mostly retained their capacity, always terminated gracefully, and not even one crapcell burst or leaked.

BTW, today I've tried 1.8A charge of 2 cells after full discharge on BC-9009, and everything is still fine, although the bottom part became quite warm. Seems that the heatsink does its job nicely.

 

[vali]

Well, as for the charge current -- I have a Robiton Smart 3000 charger, which can only charge AAs with 3A current and AAAs with 1A, but has active cooling, and no discharge or refresh or anything fancy.

I've been charging almost all my cells in it for almost a year - hundreds of cycles - and they've mostly retained their capacity, always terminated gracefully, and not even one crapcell burst or leaked.

The thing is you need to how your charger behaves. As long as it terminates correctly, then its ok. Unfortunately most non-cpf people think lower current=better allways and some fry their cells using the charger incorrectly (and then complain and start calling names...).

Your post suggest that charging at 0.5C will shorten the life of the cells and thats not a good idea to charge old cells at that rate. The thing is the older and beated the cell, the more current you need to get a reliable -dV (There are lots of test in the forums with charging graphs about this). I was trying to prevent someone from crapping his cells by following that post blindly.

 

[ValVe]

The thing is you need to how your charger behaves. As long as it terminates correctly, then its ok. Unfortunately most non-cpf people think lower current=better allways and some fry their cells using the charger incorrectly (and then complain and start calling names...).

Your post suggest that charging at 0.5C will shorten the life of the cells and thats not a good idea to charge old cells at that rate. The thing is the older and beated the cell, the more current you need to get a reliable -dV (There are lots of test in the forums with charging graphs about this). I was trying to prevent someone from crapping his cells by following that post blindly.

The only thing I'm suggesting is that someone should test the new replacement PSU for BC-9009 at maximum current and not be afraid that this one experiment instantly blows their cells all over the place.

 

[uk_caver]

Unfortunately most non-cpf people think lower current=better allways

Consumer-targeted chargers seem to follow the lines of faster == better, all the way up to 15 minute chargers.

 

[MarioJP]

I called la crosse again as the previous person I spoke with was not aware the situation. This time I got clear info to what's going on. Person told me that the ac adapters with the roman number symbol did not meet the california's requirements. These adapters the voltage were slightly high, which is why most got a notification by email to get it replaced.

She also said that these units are back order as they have to replace every single ac adapter for every single unit before they are sold again. She said they might be available around May or June

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

I feel like the LaCrosse BC-900 design had all the right intentions, just something wasn't right. Perhaps they ran over budget and had to regain money via transformer or resistor selection. I mean, the dern'd thing even has a cell temperature monitor! the sanyo branded charger doesn't have that, nor does it have adjustability of charging rates.

My friend charges his eneloops at a pretty conservative rate of 200mA. Should I advise him to up it to more accurately terminate the charge cycle, or does this unit generally terminate in the right place at 200mA?

I saw the comparison thread of 400mA vs 2A charge rates, the 2A had an obvious termination signal, while the 400mA didn't, BUT the temperature rose, and I assume the BC900 monitors this. Would I be alright in recommending he up his chrge current to, say, 500mA? He is very iffy about going as high as 1A, and honestly, so am I. He doesn't mind the charge times, and has a decent-sized stock of eneloops on hand.

 

[MarioJP]

I feel like the LaCrosse BC-900 design had all the right intentions, just something wasn't right. Perhaps they ran over budget and had to regain money via transformer or resistor selection. I mean, the dern'd thing even has a cell temperature monitor! the sanyo branded charger doesn't have that, nor does it have adjustability of charging rates.

My friend charges his eneloops at a pretty conservative rate of 200mA. Should I advise him to up it to more accurately terminate the charge cycle, or does this unit generally terminate in the right place at 200mA?

I saw the comparison thread of 400mA vs 2A charge rates, the 2A had an obvious termination signal, while the 400mA didn't, BUT the temperature rose, and I assume the BC900 monitors this. Would I be alright in recommending he up his chrge current to, say, 500mA? He is very iffy about going as high as 1A, and honestly, so am I. He doesn't mind the charge times, and has a decent-sized stock of eneloops on hand.

I would have to say they probably went over budget. Sounds reasonable to me.

Charge rate above 2A I think that will shorten the life of cells very fast. 1A is balanced between shorter charge time and cell life. But lower charging rate makes the cells last longer.

200mA if the charger can terminate properly. Then probably. I would try charging the cells at 500 at least. 200 is just slow. Now of course that is just my opinion and what applications you be using these cells on. If each charge cycle lasts days or even weeks before needing recharging. 200 is good. But if applications draws to the point of only lasting hours then I don't know what to say of what the charging rate should be.

I do like the fact that this charger by default charges the cell at 200mA and not 1A. But the option is there if you need the cells soon. Also because 200mA is slow anyways I would monitor as well just in case it does overcharge. The tests that I did terminates where it should without overcharging. But if its lingering in your mind of cells being overcharged. Just keep an eye on it.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Great information, thank you very much, Mario!

These cells here are mainly used for wireless keyboards and mice, while his personal eneloops are used for photoshoots only occasionally, after which he goes on a big charging spree and charges all his LSD cells. For the most part, the charger reports up to 100mAh more than what is on the label of the eneloops. Can this be an indicator of passing the charge cutoff, or simply an indicator of how high-quality the cells are?

I think I will suggest to him to try 500mA charge rate, that way we could potentially charge a group of cells in one work day instead of having to interrupt the charge cycle.

 

[ValVe]

Uh, okay... as there are no brave ppl here, I've tried it myself with a lab PSU at 3.02V in the same conditions.

The heatsink maxed at 68 Celsius at 4 * 1A, with 3.2V it was like 73.2 degrees.

So yeah, it seems that the unit really runs a little bit cooler with lower voltage PSU. Nice but no cigar.

 

[vali]

As long as you get reliable terminations, the charging rate is ok. Eneloops dont crap themselves as fast as other cells do and that helps too (in fact they seem to last forever)

The problem arises when people try to charge regular cheap NiMH that were charged withouth care before. They will have a pretty high internal resistance and getting a noticeable termination signal will need more than usual current. I read in some forums people complaining about how they cooked "good" cells with a C9000 or BC900 and saying that those fancy chargers are a bad idea. Almost allways they were charging those "good" cells (think on 5-year old cells charged all that time with dumb chargers) at too low current, about 400-500 mA.