Leaking Alkaline batteries in LED

[wipeout]

I have kept flashlights around the house and in the cars glove box for years and never had a leaking battery. I change the ones in the cars (always a un-modified Minimag) once a year (usually in the fall) and the others when they weaken. I use Duracell, Energizer or Rayovac batteries. Somehow the nearly 20 year old Minimag in my glove box went missing a couple of years ago and I replaced it with a Minimag LED. The next year we gave my daughter a Swiss Army (AA or AAA I forget) LED to bring to camp for two weeks.

After camp my daughter left the Swiss Army flashlight in the car to read with when we were driving at night, one day it would not turn on. I opened it and found the battery had leaked and the light would no longer work after cleaning it up and replacing the batteries. A couple of months later my Minimag LED did not work, the batteries had leaked and were stuck in the light. I ended up damaging the light trying to get the batteries out. I replaced it with a regular Minimag with the Nite Ize LED upgrade. a month ago it did not work and you guessed it the batteries leaked and will not come out (I understand they swell when they leak.). Lastly, my wife bought this little 9 LED light at TJX (powered by 3 AAA) it has no markings on it what so ever, but was pretty bright. It was kept in a table in the family and it also had leaking batteries and ruined the light.

Are leaking batteries more likely with a LED light? I was thinking that I'm running the batteries down much lower and not realizing it because of the low power draw of LEDs. I find it strange that I have not had a leaking battery in years and now have 4 ruined lights (all LEDs) in one year or so. I have not had any other device or non LED light leak. Any ideas, suggestions or comments?

 

[VidPro]

Big pile of stuff , in no particular order.

i think you gave me a clue in there somewhere
Nite-eyes that particulr very cool switch item works a special way, and should not be put on a item that is just parked, it will very slowly drain the cells down to nothing. did you use the SWITCH with the led drop in or only the led drop in itself?

a dead alklaine is more often sure to be a leaker. any lights that are parked with alkalines should be "locked out" and checked like you have been doing.
Lock outs are done by unscrewing the ends, or putting a small insulator between the spring and battery connection. (full disconnection) Full disconnection switches like in 2D mag lights are full disconnect enough usually.

other lights have "parasitic" power draws on them, that ARE very minimal, but its not minimal AT ALL when the light is just going to be parked or stored ready for usage. these more often than not are using soft switch electronic switching.

led by itself is NOT any more prone to draining a battery (which is the problems you are probably getting with leakage) when OFF, than a incadescent, the switching type, COMPLETE disconnection stuff is often the problem. Minimags with that battery push down switching , is not the greatest switching method (i just dont like it)

YES, it is likly that with LED and the longer running, and it not being visually dim as quickly as a bulb item when the cells is depleated, that you have more depleated cells in the items just waiting to screw you.

did you know that a single small drop of liquids on a switch connection points can allow enough conduction of electricity to drain a battery in a few months. so moisture comming from the human, or from spills and rain, and stuff like that, can cause a good switch to not switch off completely

anytime a battery has ONCE leaked in a light if you dont get all the alkalydes out (or acids if it is that type) these PH imbalances can (for some reason unknown to me) collect moisture.

alkaline battteries should be purchaced Fresh, reguardless of some high faluting date stuff on them, so even if you keep replacing them alkalines should not be stocked in huge quantities. So dead is bad, and fresh is good.

alkalines will expand and contract (tiny) putting stress on the containment in high temperature changes, back and forth like say in cars, this can cause issues.

and mostly ni-mhy cells will not leak as often if ever, and with the new LSD ni-mhy cells there is no real reason to work with alkalines. many people put these rechargable less leaking ni-mhy cells in all the things that keep biting them, just because they are less likly to leak.

at any rate, dont take it , if the alkalines were from a major manufacture, they will stand by thier product and repair or replace devices that are damaged by them.

use up the cheap alkaline cells from cheap flashlights , and toss them quick, the carbon batteries are usually ok, but crappy alkalines that come from china flashlights are not trustable at all.
Batts shoved in light packages left to sit on shelves waiting for people to buy are batteries rotting in cute pakaging, use them up and get rid of them for fresh ones.

guess that just leaves . .. batteries used in series
any led driver that uses Boost to get from 1-2 1.5v batteries to the 3+v of the led, can completly depleate a cell, and with multiple cells in series, when ONE cell item is depleated and the other one is still going, and the boost curcuit keeps drawing power, then the battery can get reverse charges, on a alkaline this can cause it to leak quite readily.

direct drive 3x AA type lights usually do NOT have boost curcuits, and by default usually cut-off before you get a bad reverse charge issue.

any series items using 4+ cells could potentially have a dead cell in it and still operate, causing this reverse charge problem, incan or led.

so with many series led items, you can have a dead cell item and the light could still be operating., reverse charge of a alkaline is very bad.

 

[ltiu]

Make sure to call the battery manufacturer:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=239115

 

[Light Sabre]

When I grew up and incans were the only choice I didn't change the batteries until it wouldn't light up any more. With the low power LED's in some flashlights now, you can't do that anymore especially with alkaline batteries. One time I was testing to see how long a cheap $2 2D flashlight with the (original C/D) NiteIze LED drop in would last. The flashlight was still coming on (although rather dim and still barely useable) even though the batteries were leaking. Found that out too late tho. The reflector coating had been eaten off by then.

On a related note: The temperature in my freezer goes down to -7F. I froze several flashlights for 24 hours to see which ones would work on alkalines at that temperature. Only the flashlights with really low current drain would work at that temperate, with that NiteIze LED (80-100 ma) being one of them. The brighter higher current ones wouldn't even light up at all.

Whenever I think about it, I pull the batteries on my low current LED flashlights and measure the their voltage under a higher load so that I can catch potential leakers before they actually do. I use the alkies that come with new flashlights first otherwise I would be knee high in new batteries.

 

[jayflash]

Please allow me to repeat what I've posted before. With 40+ years of experience with batteries, I've had fresh alkies leak from every brand. Some cells have even leaked in the package before opening.

LSDs or lithium cells are more reliable and lithium will not corrode metal if they do leak ... which almost never happens.

 

[ltiu]

I've had batteries leak while in storage, unused.

I've had batteries in 2xAA light leak when drained too low, one's voltage reversed and the other reversed charged it.

I've had batteries leak inside a 3xAAA light when left inside a hot car too long (many weeks).

 

[ltiu]

lithium cells are more reliable and lithium will not corrode metal if they do leak ... which almost never happens.

Lithiums can explode and vent flames. But much rarer event than leaking alkys.

 

[Mr Happy]

I have a feeling alkalines leak more now than they did 20 or 30 years ago. It would be a case perhaps of using thinner materials to keep costs down. Subjectively there also seem to be more reports of leaks from the US than from the UK. Maybe the batteries are manufactured in different factories?

 

[Light Sabre]

I have a feeling alkalines leak more now than they did 20 or 30 years ago. It would be a case perhaps of using thinner materials to keep costs down. Subjectively there also seem to be more reports of leaks from the US than from the UK. Maybe the batteries are manufactured in different factories?

I think a lot has to do with the Internet and forums like CPF. 20-30 years ago, you might know 1 or 2 (or maybe a few) people by word of mouth who had experienced leaking alkalines. Now you can report it on the Internet instanteously and hundreds of people will read about it. Also there are probably at least 10 times as many batteries make now then back then. So there are 10 times as many leaking alkalines.

My track record for leaking batteries (any kind) compared to the number of batteries that I have owned of each from worst case to best is : NiCad (1), Lithium L91 (1), alkaline (not very many compared to the hundreds that I have used), and NMH (0). All of the leaking alkalines were almost used up and left in widget too long between uses. Or bled to death from widget not being turned off. Have only seen 1 alkaline leaking in new package at the B&M store. The only Li-Ions I have are in widgets that I have purchased (laptop, cellphone, mp3 player). Due to their potential to vent, flame, or explode I will never buy 1 seperately (with charger). Besides I live in a 28 unit apartment building with ~50 other people. Not gonna take the chance.

It just comes down to how much risk you're willing to take versus the advantages/disadvantages of each battery type. Pretty much the same way life is. You weigh this versus that and take the risks accordingly.

My dad and sister won't pay over $5 for any flashlight. My dad only buys the $4 throw away lights. My sister thinks M@g-lites are way too expensive. If the alkaline batteries leak in her $5 flashlight, then just go buy a new one.

 

[vali]

I have a feeling alkalines leak more now than they did 20 or 30 years ago. It would be a case perhaps of using thinner materials to keep costs down. Subjectively there also seem to be more reports of leaks from the US than from the UK. Maybe the batteries are manufactured in different factories?

Yeah, I was thinking the same. Since I was using rechargeables for about 20 years or so, the amout of alkalines I got was minimal. The last leak I remember was in a walkman 15 years ago. It was totally destroyed (lots of hard earned money for a kid) but the cells were el-cheapo.

I never saw "premiun" alkalines leak (duracell, energizer...) but there are too many ppl in the forum complaining about leaked cells. That leads me to think the factory where they were made may have some importance.

I currently have some duracell coppertops (duracell plus) I bought in a supermarket. They are made in EC (Ecuador). The ones that came with my quark were made in china and the lettering are different, but they are marked as oem, not for resale.

Where were yours made?

 

[wipeout]

Big pile of stuff , in no particular order.

i think you gave me a clue in there somewhere
Nite-eyes that particulr very cool switch item works a special way, and should not be put on a item that is just parked, it will very slowly drain the cells down to nothing. did you use the SWITCH with the led drop in or only the led drop in itself?


I just used the drop in LED, I still had to twist it on and off. Maglite says only to use Alkaline batteries but could I use Enveloops? Would they be better? I have a bunch of them that I use in Motorola hand-held radios.

 

[VidPro]

envelopes probably wouldnt leak ever just joking, i have spelt enloopies wrong for years now

yes use any ol ni-mhy it would work better than an alkaline and there is maby 2 out of every 100 devices that wont work correctly with them.

the "nominal" voltage on both batteries are about 1.2v anyways. if you want to get paranoid over it, then just rest them off the charger for an hour before stuffing them in things and turning them on.

lights to be paranoid about running ni-mhy "hot off the charger" would be unregulated 3X style direct drive things.

if mag and energyser want to get upset about it, then keep using alkalines, and keep sending the lights and batteries back to them to have them fixed.

 

[njet212]

Are leaking batteries more likely with a LED light?

They answer for that is no they aren't.
I got leaking battery with my 5C maglite ( incan ), it was a DOA now.
Same thing happened to my 5C maglite the battery were stuck under the switch module :sigh:

 

[uk_caver]

A couple of months later my Minimag LED did not work, the batteries had leaked and were stuck in the light. I ended up damaging the light trying to get the batteries out. I replaced it with a regular Minimag with the Nite Ize LED upgrade. a month ago it did not work and you guessed it the batteries leaked and will not come out (I understand they swell when they leak.).

How did you try to get the cells out?
A friend had an AA minimag with alkaline cells which had swollen, and which they couldn't get out.

What worked for that flashlight was a long woodscrew with a sharp end. Gently tapped and then screwed into the base of a cell, it gave enough grip to allow the cells to be pulled out. (After removing the first cell, I smeared a little grease inside the tube to make extracting the second cell easier).

 

[wipeout]

I tried hitting the end of the barrel on a hard surface, I hit a little too hard and bent the barrel of the light. I'll try the wood screw idea if the problem comes up again.

 

[njet212]

I tried hitting the end of the barrel on a hard surface, I hit a little too hard and bent the barrel of the light. I'll try the wood screw idea if the problem comes up again.

Same way to do with my mag C, first time i feel the battery would not come out then i sprayed little amount of WD-40. Then after few hit the battery comes out ended with dented barrel and DOA mag C. And +1 for wood screw idea for the next same problem. But the better idea is never put alkaline in non regular use flashlight, for readiness reason it's better put Sanyo Eneloop or Energizer lithium. From what i read on CPF, these 2 cells less leak than alkaline.



Dented Barrel

Undented Barrel

 

[wipeout]

Maglite says not to use ant other than alkalines, I have heard some issues with Mag LED's with other types of batteries.

 

[TorchBoy]

Please keep pics to a maximum 800 x 800 pixels. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/Rules.html#siglines

 

[njet212]

Please keep pics to a maximum 800 x 800 pixels. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/Rules.html#siglines

, FIXED !!!!

Sorry, this is will be my first and last mistake.
Thanks for the warning Torchboy :thumbsup: