Learning to lathe [things]

[Mirage_Man]

Re: Learning to lathe

Fred, your "Learning to Lathe" thread has been killing me to follow along in the shadows and read! So ........ not as sweet as I wanted to get but..........


Kenster has a Lathe on it`s way!


My questions will be dumb of course, but I hope I can get guidance while learning from you and these other "Masters":bow:

Ken:naughty:

Uh OH! I see lots of titanium chips in your future!

Your gonna have a blast. I've only been doing the mundane Maglite stuff but it has been teaching me a lot. If you haven't already check out The Practical Machinist site. Lots of helpful people and info.

MM

 

[kenster]

Re: Learning to lathe

Mirage_Man, Titanium chips will come in time. I have been reading at the Practical Machinist website and reading anything I have found to read so I know it takes time. I`ve learned a lot reading here at CPF too from all of you guys. It`s great that all of you are always willing help.


Ken

 

[kromeke]

Re: Learning to lathe

Very tiny minor nitpick:

This thread should be titled "Learning to turn" or "Learning the lathe" (Learning the lathe might be better, as you can do more than turn in a lathe).

I'm not usually a grammar critic, as I make plenty of mistakes myself. Please take this as constructive criticism. I'm not trying to come off as a know it all.

Now, I did look it up to make sure my criticism was correct, and in doing so, I did learn that lathed, lathing and lathes are transitive verbs, which I did not know. Usually I encounter the verbs turned, turning, or turns.

See, one learns something new everyday, and I wouldn't have known this had I not taken the time to write this message. I only wrote it because "learning to lathe" just sounded awkward to me, probably because I've heard the phrase "learning to turn" and I've always referred to lathed objects as turned objects. Of course, I also fall back on my living language bit, in that english is a living language, and as such, it is constantly evolving.

Sorry for getting off topic. Congratulations on the learning, I'm happy to see others learn the lathe. It is a most useful machine tool.

I am also a regular at the Practical Machinist forum. I really enjoy the things I learn from there.

Best regards,
-Keith

 

[Anglepoise]

Re: Learning to lathe

Practical Machinist is OK, but there seems allot more activity at
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net.

Both good sites.

Welcome kenster.

Well if you learn the art of turning as well as you polish Ti,
we will all be coming to you for advice.

 

[kenster]

Re: Learning to lathe

Anglepoise, website saved to my favorites and I thank you! When I get my Lathe I will post some pics in a thread and I hope you guys will stop by and do the :shakehead and all that good helpful stuff to help me out.

 

[highorder]

Re: Learning to lathe

this thread should be retitled "spin to win!"

 

[PhotonFanatic]

Re: Learning to lathe

Anglepoise, website saved to my favorites and I thank you! When I get my Lathe I will post some pics in a thread and I hope you guys will stop by and do the :shakehead and all that good helpful stuff to help me out.

Knowing that you will tire of your new toy quickly, I stand first in line to take it off your hands for 50% of what you paid for it, shipping included, of course. :lolsign:

About time, too.

 

[KC2IXE]

Re: Learning to lathe

Brian,

That's fine, if you have a big lathe and a big chuck, both with bores large enough to accommodate the diameter of the Mag. Unfortunately, the bore on my lathe is 20mm max.

Good reminder on the bevel for the O-ring, thanks.

I think someone else said it - if you are running with a long extention out of the chuck - say, more than 4x diameter of the part, you should either be running a tailstock (doing external work) or break out your steady rest, and USE IT for internal worl - yeah, you have to run slower - but being uninjured makes up for the time

ONE day, I'll replace my Atlas 12x36 - Nice lathe (I have the cabinet base), but the through bore is just too darned small. I want something that will take at LEAST a 5C collet - if not a 16c

 

[PhotonFanatic]

Learn--Forget--Relearn

I think I will make that my mantra for the year. Some time ago I posted about my knurling using my cut knurling tool. I had a bear of a time learning how to align the cutters with the stock, how to get them cutting to the same depth, etc.

No need to rehash the old post in its entirety, but I obviously thought I had learned how to do it right--in the end.

WRONG! I attempted to put a knurl on an almost completed piece and ended up with a disaster.

So, back to investigating what went wrong and trying to learn how to correct it.

Ten or twelve iterations later and I had it:

So what am I doing differently? I now treat this cutting in a manner similar to the threading that I do: Make a pass, reverse the spindle, infeed, make another pass. The beauty of it is that I can stop the machine and inspect the knurling while I am doing it.

Let's hope I can repeat it tomorrow.

 

[Anglepoise]

Interesting pattern you have there.Sharp, crisp and very well defined. I have no experience with cut style knurls but
am interested. There are generally two types of diamond patterns. MALE (raised pyramid) or FEMALE (depressed pyramid). Your pick above shows the later that is not generally used as much in North America.

Can your tool do both?

 

[PhotonFanatic]

David,

Let's run through the possible diamond/cross knurls that one can make:

Deformation knurling:

RGE: diamond knurl, points raised (male), 30 degrees; can be produced via plunge feed and axial feed also.

RGV: diamond knurl, points indented (female), 30 degrees; can only be produced with plunge feed.

RKE: cross knurl, points raised (male), 90 degrees; can only be produced with plunge feed.

RKV: cross knurl, points indented (female), 90 degrees; plunge feed only.


Cut knurling:

RGE: diamond knurl, points raised (male), 30 degrees; axial feed.

RKE: diamond knurl, points raised (male), 90 degrees; axial feed.

Diagrams:

So the answer is that indented points (female) can only be produced by deformation knurling, while the raised points can be made either by deformation or by cutting.

I do have a tool on order that can do the RKV knurl.

 

[Bimmerboy]

Re: Learning to lathe

But, but -- it's ribbed! That should make it more valuable in the eyes of some, no?

LOL!... You know, that lathe could make you a lot of money one day. :devil:

Great work, PF! All I know about machining is a few factoids here and there, and I used to hang out at a machine shop a bit 20 years ago. Just enough to give an appreciation for the learning process you're going through.

I look forward to seeing your future products on Dr. Ruth's website...

 

[Anglepoise]

Fred,
I still am lost as to how you are getting the results in the picture you posted yesterday. You have talked about your knurl tool as a 'cut knurl' yet the picture looks like it has been produced by 'indentation'.
I do not see how any 'cut' knurler ' can get the excellent results shown.

That is why I asked the question above, can your cut knurler do both.

Knurling is where I fall down, and it is such an important part of what we do, I need to improve. However I do not want to invest $500+ till I have a better understanding of the cut style ' works'.
Could you please let me have the number of knurl you used (above) and if you used the tool holder in 'cut mode' or 'plunge mode'.
Thanks

 

[PhotonFanatic]

David,

The cutting knurler can only cut, or remove the metal, so it can only make male, or raised points. If you were to look at two pieces, one knurled by cutting and the other knurled by deformation, they would, indeed, look almost identical. Upon closer inspection with a loupe, you would see the difference, however. The cut pyramids would have sharp edges to them, while the deformed pyramids would have softer edges.

The cutting knurler that I have is from iFanger. And, yes, I cut the knurl along the axis. When I was referring to a plunge cut in the earlier post, that applies only to deformation knurling. You can only make a knurl that way that is equal to the width of the wheel. Many of the wheels come in 2, 4, 6 or 10 mm width, so that is what you'd get--a band of knurling around your light that would equal those widths. Mind you, you can knurl axially via deformation, but not the raised pyramids version.

Here is what the tool looks like:

That cost $170, including two wheels.

While I am now getting decent results from it, I would suggest that there are other, perhaps better tools from the likes of Zeus, Quick, or Dorian, although I have not used any of them. They are for the most part, considerably more expensive. The Europeans seem to be the leaders in cut knurling tools, i.e., Zeus and Quick.

Hey, you know what I'm gonna do for you? I'm dropping that very piece in the mail to you today. I would like it back some day, however.

 

[Anglepoise]

Fred,
I think the problem must be my eyes as your photo
looks to me like it is 'indented points' ( female ) and
my mind is sayin, " How the hell is he doing indented point with
a cutting tool". I am interpreting your photo incorrectly.
Nuff said.

Look forward to seeing the actual part. Yes....will return.
Nothing wrong with Ifanger stuff. Have some of their tooling and have been most happy.

 

[PhotonFanatic]

Another weekend, but this time, it wasn't a complete waste of time. Believe it or not, I decided to make a complete assembly from scratch.

I was really stoked to do a super job on the knurling, but, alas, it was not to be. One of the major areas that I need to work on is logistical planning. As it turned out, I had the battery tube and head knurled, but there were other operations still to be done and the only way to grasp the pieces was on the knurling--not good when you overtighten the chuck.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find some some soft jaws for my lathe, so I didn't have those at my disposal.

So, short story--I had to turn down the knurling so that they aren't razor sharp, just enough to fit my collets, which wouldn't hurt the knurling at all.

Had I planned well in advance, I might have left some material in place that could have been used to rechuck the piece. Live and learn.

 

[will]

Think of the work to be done like a chess game - always a few moves ahead. If you cut here, where will you hold for the next step. Knurling is almost always done last, unless you are working with real thin wall tubes. Some times you have to make holders or special tools to acomplish what you want to do. We used to use expandable arbors a lot, the work slips over it and you tighten a screw or bolt to hold the work.

 

[highorder]

+1 for arbor turning. I find that it is a great way to make concentric turning of factory bodies a snap!

 

[PhotonFanatic]

+1 for arbor turning. I find that it is a great way to make concentric turning of factory bodies a snap!

highorder,

Can you suggest a few vendors? Thanks.

 

[Anglepoise]

Fred,
If you are going to make flashlights, you can make up a few threaded male and female stub arbors . Anytime you need to hold a threaded piece and work on its other end, these can come in very handy.

For example. A head with a female thread on one end and a shoulder the other for a lens to but up against.

First I would knurl the solid rod. Then bore and internal thread and anything else needed like 'O' ring grooves. Then part off.
Now put your male threaded stub arbor in your chuck. Carefully screw the threaded head onto the arbor and when seated, you can now work on the other end.
Obviously you are now dealing with a very thin walled delicate piece and turning and facing must be done with extreme care.