LED Flashlight FAQ?

mikewgordon

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
3
Do we have an FAQ on LED flashlights here? If not, maybe we can put one together for the newbies (like me). Here are some suggestions for topics:

Definitions and comparisons:
LED types: Cree, Seoul, Luxeon, etc
What are these numbered battery types? voltage vs size vs chemistry, etc
Protected vs unprotected cells
Regulated vs non-regulated circuits
drop-ins
smooth vs orange peel vs ? reflectors
ligh quality: throw, halo, spread, hotspots
throw vs output, lux measurements

comparisons (brightness, run time, etc) to a common light (2AA Maglight?)
list of good beginner LED lights, what makes them good beginner lights
Decent LED lights in national stores (Target, Walmart, Gander Mnt, REI etc.)
 
Use the search function for each topic you are interested in. Most of them even have a specific sub-forum, such as for batteries.
 
Use the search function for each topic you are interested in. Most of them even have a specific sub-forum, such as for batteries.

:poke: The whole point of a FAQ is to have a shallow overview that can be read in 5 to 10 minutes, so you *don't have to* spend 10 hours searching every topic, until you know which subject you need to see in depth.

I think this would be a very valuable thing to have as a sticky thread, if someone competent felt like maintaining it.
 
:poke: The whole point of a FAQ is to have a shallow overview that can be read in 5 to 10 minutes, so you *don't have to* spend 10 hours searching every topic, until you know which subject you need to see in depth.
Not to mention the CPF Search functionality sucks.

I think this would be a very valuable thing to have as a sticky thread, if someone competent felt like maintaining it.
I agree. Thanks for volunteering. :poke:
 
Nitro;2141829 I agree. Thanks for volunteering. :poke:[/QUOTE said:
:nana: Note that I cleverly included the word "competent" as an out. I wouldn't know an unprotected Li-ion cell from a protected one if it exploded in my hand. :tinfoil:
 
Cool, lets use this thread to build the FAQ. If each person can write to one or two of the topics above (or others) to get started and then we can all review and suggest additions and changes to each. I can compile them into one document and then post it as a seperate topic which we ask the moderators to make "sticky".
 
Welcome to CPF mikewgordon!

Lets see if I can answer some of these questions.

Do we have an FAQ on LED flashlights here? If not, maybe we can put one together for the newbies (like me). Here are some suggestions for topics:

Definitions and comparisons:
LED types: Cree, Seoul, Luxeon, etc

Luxeon I, III, V, and K2 LEDs were the great LEDs of a year or two ago(they are still good but not great). Basically, the newer Cree(P4-Q5), Seoul P4, Rebel 80-100 and many of the "new" generation LED have twice the efficiency of the older Luxeon LEDs. Or for the same power, the newer LEDs will produce twice the amount of light and also less heat.
The myth of LEDs not producing heat is false. Some LED lights will be too hot to handle in 10-15 minutes to to the heat produced by the LED, but that's mainly with Luxeon V and K2 LEDs. A high power LED requires a good heat sink in order to not burn itself out.

These two of my posts might help.

This thread might help comparing the newer LEDs.

Basically, the Cree XR-E P4(3W is just the current it might be running at in a light) have double the efficiency of a Luxeon I, III, V, and K2 LED. The Q2-Q5 bins are even more efficient. A single Cree P4 should output about 180 lumen at 1 amp and around 3.4-3.8v, a single Q5 should output around 230 lumen at the same current. The Cree Q5 should be the brightest consumer single die LED available at this time(there are brighter ones but they aren't for sale). The Cree has a narrower emitting pattern then the Luxeon. Could be hard to solder and requires clipping the corners or removing the surface mount parts to prevent shorting if you are using the bare emitter.

The Seoul P4 uses that same die as the Cree and has similar efficiency. It has a similar emitting pattern to the Luxeon and is used by some to replace their Luxeon LEDs. It has around 200 lumen at 1 amp and 3.5-3.8v. The Seoul has phosphor problems with temperature and it also has a positive slug which might require isolation to prevent shorts with the bare emitter..

The Edison Opto is another LED that uses the same die as the Cree and has similar performance. IIRC, it has the exact emitting pattern of a Luxeon but will leave a yellow ring around the hotspot if used with a reflector.

The Luxeon Rebel is a surface mounted LED 1/4 the size of the Cree, though it has the same die size. There are many different bins of Rebels with the Rebel 100 being the brightest. If the Rebel 100 die and phosphor was used in a 4 die LED like the Luxeon V, you should easily get 800 lumen out of the LED at 1 amp.

I hope that I made sense.
Usually, the bin of the LED refers to the efficiency of the LED. Here is a explanation of Luxeon's bin code. A Cree P4(probably the most common Cree XR-E LED) should be equivalent to a higher end W bin, similar to a W bin Luxeon V but at about half the voltage and a smaller die size. A Cree Q2-Q5 should easily be in the X bin if they were using Luxeon's bin codes.

The Cree Q4 evaluation might be a good read if you want to understand how some of the newer LEDs react to different currents.

The White LED Lumen testing thread tests LEDs and their Vf, amperage and lumens at a current.

The links Derek Dean(Data SheetBinning and Labeling) posted are also helpful with understanding Cree's bin code.

What are these numbered battery types? voltage vs size vs chemistry, etc

You mean Lithium Ion batteries? They are mostly 3.7v and 4.2v when fully charged. The first two numbers represent the battery diameter in mm, the second two represent length in mm, and the last one means shape. I'll use a 18650 as an example, it would be 18 mm in diameter, 65mm long and tube shaped.

Protected vs unprotected cells

A protected cell has a circuitry that prevents overcharge, overdischarge and excess drain. The circuitry will shut down the cell if any of those thing happen. Any one of those thing will damage the cell and your will risk an explosion if you tried to charge a damaged cell. Unprotected batteries do not have this circuitry and can be overcharge, overdischarge and drained excessively. In short, protected batteries are safer.

Regulated vs non-regulated circuits

A regulated light has a circuitry to keep the light output stable for the entire life of the batteries. How stable depends on the regulator and it's application. Unregulated light will dim constantly as the batteries drain. Unregulated lights have less to break but regulated lights have a constant output.


A drop-in is a replacement of the original bulb of a flashlight. For example, the amazing Malkoffdevices Maglite Drop-in is designed to replace the Maglite bulb with a brighter LED.

smooth vs orange peel vs ? reflectors

A smooth reflector will provide the most throw, or projection ability, but will also contain artifacts and the beam pattern might look ugly on a white wall. A orange-peel(OP) reflector has bumps on the reflector to smooth out the beam and make it look better, it reduces throw but if you need a good beam(No rings or holes), OP reflector is for you.

light quality: throw, halo, spread, hotspots

Throw is how far a light would project a beam. On here, it is usually measured in LUX(Lumens per square meter). The halo is the lighter spot of light around the concentrated center spot of a beam(also known as the hot-spot). The Spread/spill of a light is the area around the hot-spot and halo that allows you too see what is on the ground ahead of you.

throw vs output, lux measurements

Throw is how far a beam would project(usually measured in Lux and Candlepower) and output(usually measured in lumens) is how much light something is putting out. Something, like a laser could have a very high throw but a very low overall output. Something like a lantern might have a very high output but much less throw.

comparisons (brightness, run time, etc) to a common light (2AA Maglight?)
list of good beginner LED lights, what makes them good beginner lights
Decent LED lights in national stores (Target, Walmart, Gander Mnt, REI etc.)

How is this for figures, a typical 2D celled light(the cheap kind, something like this) is about 15-20 lumens max and has a throw of around 800-900 lux. The 2AA Maglite(review) is similar in throw and has less output, around 10-15 lumen max. A Fenix L2D-CE(review) has 100+ lumens on Turbo and almost 3000 lux throw. The Medium mode has a longer total runtime(as full, flat regualtion) compared to the Maglite and still puts out about 30 lumens and 870 lux throw.

A good place to start seeing the "new" LEDs for cheap is Dealextreme, Cree section, Seoul section, Rebel section. I'd recommend the MTE Seoul, Ultrafire C3, or a HF2 Cree light as a good reasonably priced starter. These light don't drive the LEDs anywhere close to their limits but the light that do require 18650 batteries but the whole kit, batteries, light and charger, should cost less the $45.

Feel free to point out my mistakes.
 
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Very cool Gunner. I always wondered what the numbers on rechargeable lithium batteries meant.
 
Gunner,

You rock! I didn't expect anyone to tackle the whole list. Sometime in the next few days I'll reformat your post to be more document-like and see if the moderator will make it a sticky.

If anyone else has anything to add, please reply here soon.
 
BTW Mike, this is a very nice, and long overdue idea. Leave it to a new member to see what will be helpful to other new members (go figure). Good for you! Oh, and welcome to CPF.

Gunner---- you DO rock. :thumbsup:
 
No problem guys, though I'm sure I've missed something or could have explained somethings better.

I agree with having a Flashlights FAQ, it helps with some of the questions some of us might have.

Any more questions that need answering?
 
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ok i have one question about the 18650 battrie. now i have one on hand right now and it mesured 18mm across and 650mm long not 65mm so the o is not tube shape its an acutly 0 for the lengent mesure ment. now correct me if i am wrong and sorry if i am but to me that just seem more logical
 
hhhaah yep shure was was thinking 100mm in a cm wow opps sorry about that. wow i feel stupid now lol
 
"What's all the fuss?" or something.
Hi, maybe something showing why all of you are so into these lights? Like a reference from a typical light, to a powerful led ray.
For myself, I have yet (I think) seen a really powerful good light, but am trying to make one from parts on the cheap. They must get very bright based on all of the fuss around here :)
Waiting for a local rayovac I think to get a basis myself as I can't really spend a lot on a flashlight...yet
 
"LED Types" should be "LED Manufacturers"

Edison Oppo, should be included. Their KLC8 is amazing.

Battery Info:

10440 3.7V, 300mAh Li-Ion Cylindral Cell (AAA size)

14500 3.7V rechargeables. Basically an RCR123 (16340) in the shape of an AA battery.

18650 3.6v rechargeable lithium battery. much longer run time than the RCR123-size Larger diameter than RCR123-size, and twice as long.

Pila 168A (Protected 18650)
Pila 600P (Protected 18650) 2200mAh
Pila 168S (Protected 17670)
Pila 600S (Protected 17670) 1500mAh

CR123a 3.0v non-rechargeable Lithium Cell

RCR123 3.6v unprotected lithium. They produce 4.2 volts of power when
fully charged, then quickly fall to 3.6 volts output.

L-91 AA sized Lithium Cell 1.7V non-rechargable (Energizer e2 is popular)

Other Possible Terms for definition.

Battery Tube:<fill in the blank>
Head: <fill in the blank>
Tail-cap: <fill in the blank>

Forward Clicky: <fill in the blank>
Reverse Clicky: <fill in the blank>
Twisty: <fill in the blank>

Anodizing
Hard Anodizing Type III (HA III): <fill in the blank>
Hard Anodizing Type II (HA II): <fill in the blank>

Cemical Symbols
Ti : Titanium
Al : Aluminum
Ni : Nickle

Nickle Plating: <fill in the blank>

HID: High Intensity Discharge Lamp (not an LED)
Types of HID: Metal Halide, Sodium, and Mercury Vapor

LED: Light Emitting Diode

Emitter: kind of a slang term for a specific packaging of an LED, not using the original plastic encpulated package with integrated lens. Most common of which was the 5mm LED.

Star Package: an LED mounted on a star shaped printed circuit board.

TIR / TIR Optic: <fill in the blank>

Aspherical Lens: a lens whose shape is specifically altered from a spherical curvature to correct optical the poperties of a simple lense such as to create closer to the ideal lense, by removing optical abberations.

I'm sure there are plenty more.
 
Sorry but there is no such thing as HA II. Only HA III. Type two anodizing(Maglite and most other cheaper anodizing) is nowhere close to HA III in scratch resistant. There are many grades of HA III but they are all HA III, not HA II.

SF = Surefire
Forward clickie, think maglite clickie, momentary(half press from off) and constant on(click)
Reverse clicke, click and let go for off and half way press from on for momentary off.
Twisty, twist for on.
 
We can't forget EDC !

EDC: Every Day Carry

Tactical: <insert any one of 100 definitions> ... no really we need a nice one.

Signal Mode: <something here>

Li: Lithium
Li-Ion: Lithium Ion

LiFePO4: Lithium Iron Phosphate a new Lithium Ion battery rechargable battery composition that creates a more typical 3.0V output under load, (rather than 3.6V). This reduced voltages more closely matches the non-rechargable Lithium cells of the same size.
 
Torch: Good old British English for Flashlight. Careful, sometimes you might want to qualify it with 'Electric Torch'.

Coin-cell / Coin-cell Light: A flashlight that uses coin-cells. Coin cells are little silver flat cells that look like a coin and are often used to power watches, backup battery for older cameras, small digital displays, etc.

Photon: a popular keychain light, that is coin-cell operated

Fauxton: A Photon or Photon-Like 'Clone'

Turbo Mode: Same as always; a silly name for something with increased performance. It could be generated by running a device beyond specifications, or my marketing people performing under specifications.

Collimating Lens: a lens designed to concentrate the light into a narrow beam.

Battery Carrier: an electrically active carrier for batteries, that accepts one or more cells. When multiple cells are used in a carrier they are connected together either in series for increased voltage, or in parallel for increased current capacity. Single cell carriers convert a cell from one type to another. Multicell carriers can also have the intended purpose of making the cells appear together as a differet type of cell.

Battery Case: a non electrically active case for holding and/or transporting batteries.
 
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