led 'fluorescent tube' replacement

[spun]

pricey but interesting tech:
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20090216/165683/

 

[Superdave]

Cool..

I just ordered one of these (F15T8 Replacement) http://www.happ.com/lighting/91101700.htm

for work, we have about 3000 F15T8's running all the time in our slot machines, i hope the LED version is as bright and lasts longer.

 

[ledstein]

Im sorry to disappoint you but right now it just aint any real LED replacement for fluorescent tubes. Fluorescent tubes have at least the same efficacy (lm/W) as LED systems, last quite long and cost waay less.

A real good LED replacement tube costs so much that it makes the "Calculate your savings" marketing thing a real nonsense.

If the LED tube is made in china its still more expensive then neon and it doesnt even last as long and is less bright.

 

[holiday light express]

Im sorry to disappoint you but right now it just aint any real LED replacement for fluorescent tubes. Fluorescent tubes have at least the same efficacy (lm/W) as LED systems, last quite long and cost waay less.

A real good LED replacement tube costs so much that it makes the "Calculate your savings" marketing thing a real nonsense.

If the LED tube is made in china its still more expensive then neon and it doesnt even last as long and is less bright.

It depends on how you look at it. There are LED tubes out there that put out the same light, but you will be saving only a watt or two. So over time they are going to cost about the same. But, the LED will save on mercury out put. The LED bulb also won't break as easily. So if you have a bad habit of shoving your broom handle into your lights, this will save you clean up time! Also, if you paying someone to change out your bulbs, say in an office or shop, you will save money on labor for changing them out less.

 

[jtr1962]

I could think of two applications right off. One would be in very cold temperatures where fluorescent is too dim. The other is when a light is frequently turned on and off. Fluorescents just won't last long in such an application. An LED tube with 40,000 hours life might well last practically forever if run a few minutes at a time and a total of only an hour or two per day.

 

[holiday light express]

I could think of two applications right off. One would be in very cold temperatures where fluorescent is too dim. The other is when a light is frequently turned on and off. Fluorescents just won't last long in such an application. An LED tube with 40,000 hours life might well last practically forever if run a few minutes at a time and a total of only an hour or two per day.

Correct! The tubes in my garage are always dim for a while in the winter. I will be changing them over to LED when they die.

 

[jason 77]

Wait a minute.... Quote from article...
"Because the LED tube lamp is designed to use a socket for fluorescent tubes, it can replace a fluorescent lamp without changing or removing the socket. It supports both glow-starter and rapid-start methods."

So this tube needs to have a fluorescent ballast power it? Wouldn't that be kind of back wards? I mean those ballasts go out after awhile too and are pricey to replace. Wouldn't it be a better/easier idea to have the led tubes run off of the line voltage? Or am I missing something?

 

[likeguymontag]

Wait a minute.... Quote from article...
"Because the LED tube lamp is designed to use a socket for fluorescent tubes, it can replace a fluorescent lamp without changing or removing the socket. It supports both glow-starter and rapid-start methods."

So this tube needs to have a fluorescent ballast power it? Wouldn't that be kind of back wards? I mean those ballasts go out after awhile too and are pricey to replace. Wouldn't it be a better/easier idea to have the led tubes run off of the line voltage? Or am I missing something?

If you're right, and the power is being converted first by the fluorescent ballast and then by the LED's ballast, then this is definitely bass-ackwards. A good electronic fluoro ballast is something like 90% efficient, but... why waste that 10% if you don't have to?

 

[blasterman]

But, the LED will save on mercury out put

This stuff is all made in China with absurdly lax environmental regulations. So, let's get real cut with the feel-good-enviro aspect, OK?

Also, because we're going from a Fluorescent ballast to a LED driver tends to nix any arguement about lighting efficiency (see points above). I also tend to trust fluorescent ballasts more than integrated LED drivers.

So, the advantages here are; good durability and instant start. Reliability *should* be superior to a conventional fluorescent tube, but it's still a chinese made driver which means I trust it a nanosecond after the warranty expires. Who knows....it might last for 10 years.

 

[likeguymontag]

This stuff is all made in China with absurdly lax environmental regulations. So, let's get real cut with the feel-good-enviro aspect, OK?

Also, because we're going from a Fluorescent ballast to a LED driver tends to nix any arguement about lighting efficiency (see points above). I also tend to trust fluorescent ballasts more than integrated LED drivers.

So, the advantages here are; good durability and instant start. Reliability *should* be superior to a conventional fluorescent tube, but it's still a chinese made driver which means I trust it a nanosecond after the warranty expires. Who knows....it might last for 10 years.

I agree with everything you wrote. A good fluoro ballast from a reputable manufacturer should be rock solid reliable. And semiconductor manufacturing (making LED dies) is famous for being a dirty, dirty business. I would be interested in seeing a lifetime environmental impact that compares incan, fluoro, and LED. Incandescents are dirty by virtue of consuming so much electricity, but I'm curious whether fluorescents or LEDs are gentler to the environment.

 

[holiday light express]

This stuff is all made in China with absurdly lax environmental regulations. So, let's get real cut with the feel-good-enviro aspect, OK?

Also, because we're going from a Fluorescent ballast to a LED driver tends to nix any arguement about lighting efficiency (see points above). I also tend to trust fluorescent ballasts more than integrated LED drivers.

So, the advantages here are; good durability and instant start. Reliability *should* be superior to a conventional fluorescent tube, but it's still a chinese made driver which means I trust it a nanosecond after the warranty expires. Who knows....it might last for 10 years.

You do know that most light bulbs are made in China, so the negitives cancel each other out. An LED will cause less mercury into the environment than a CFL, which is less than an incandescent. There are many papers out there that show this is true.

You also have to know that not all tubes are the same. There are tubes out there that require no ballast at all, some that run off them and some that have intergrated fixtures. Either way you need to shop around and research a little before you buy LED bulbs of any type. There are a huge range of products out there with a huge range of quality.

 

[ClancyO]

I'm all for this. I hate fluorescent lights - it's harsh and I can detect the flicker. I have one indirect fluorescent light in my living room that I never use (because I hate the light), but would love to replace. As it is, I am confined on the space it occupies and don't have many options - This would be the perfect solution...

 

[Superdave]

I recieved the unit that I ordered, on the bench it wasn't that impressive but once we installed it in a machine it was just as bright as a F15T8. The temp is a little colder but it seems to work well.

To compare power consumption i'll take it back to the bench and log the current draw of the LED unit VS the Flouro unit + ballast on Sunday.



Dave

 

[SafetyBob]

I am finding that if I place a 3000K Led from Mouser (Ok, seoul 3.8 watt led's) 2.5 inches away from each other in a row in my broken flourescent fixtures, I get pretty close if not the same light as my cheap flourescent light.

The end game her is I know what components went in (which would be A+ versus D-), so they should be good to go for a long, long time.

I would recommend to everyone trying to replace or modify your existing flourescent fixures with LED's to use Seoul 3.8 (which are P4's) from Mouser and get the 3000K ones and try to space 2.5 inches apart.

I have used the 4000K ones and they just don't do it for me....3000K and you get a nice clear, crisp white light.

I need to take a 4 foot fixture in the garage and try to put like 12 of those led's on it with two transformers and see what I get....

Bob E.

 

[ponygt65]

I could think of two applications right off. One would be in very cold temperatures where fluorescent is too dim. The other is when a light is frequently turned on and off. Fluorescents just won't last long in such an application. An LED tube with 40,000 hours life might well last practically forever if run a few minutes at a time and a total of only an hour or two per day.

You seem like you are a victim of poor lighting design. There are plenty of Flu. that are perfectly fine in 'cold (pending the temp)' weather, and life does have alot to do with start period, but alot of that has to do with ballast type as well.

Correct! The tubes in my garage are always dim for a while in the winter. I will be changing them over to LED when they die.

what lamps do you have, and how cold does it get?

If you're right, and the power is being converted first by the fluorescent ballast and then by the LED's ballast, then this is definitely bass-ackwards. A good electronic fluoro ballast is something like 90% efficient, but... why waste that 10% if you don't have to?

90% efficiency?....what eff. is it you speak of exactly?

You do know that most light bulbs are made in China, so the negitives cancel each other out. An LED will cause less mercury into the environment than a CFL, which is less than an incandescent. There are many papers out there that show this is true.

Why do you have so much against the mercury contained in Fluorescents? I'm curious, do you like Hybrid cars?

And actually, most 'name' brand fluorescents are NOT made in China.

I'm all for this. I hate fluorescent lights - it's harsh and I can detect the flicker. I have one indirect fluorescent light in my living room that I never use (because I hate the light), but would love to replace. As it is, I am confined on the space it occupies and don't have many options - This would be the perfect solution...

you also sound like someone whom is a victim of poor lighting design.

I recieved the unit that I ordered, on the bench it wasn't that impressive but once we installed it in a machine it was just as bright as a F15T8. The temp is a little colder but it seems to work well.

To compare power consumption i'll take it back to the bench and log the current draw of the LED unit VS the Flouro unit + ballast on Sunday.

Dave

I could have saved you some trouble.


For those that are interested in LED's to replace linear Fluorescents, please understand that there isn't one name brand (and even most second rate brands) that won't even endure manuf. time in this. LED's will NOT replace lin. fluorescents as a good lightsource, nor economical. A few 'test' trials have been done on them that I've personally seen.

 

[holiday light express]

You seem like you are a victim of poor lighting design. There are plenty of Flu. that are perfectly fine in 'cold (pending the temp)' weather, and life does have alot to do with start period, but alot of that has to do with ballast type as well.

what lamps do you have, and how cold does it get?


90% efficiency?....what eff. is it you speak of exactly?

Why do you have so much against the mercury contained in Fluorescents? I'm curious, do you like Hybrid cars?

And actually, most 'name' brand fluorescents are NOT made in China.
you also sound like someone whom is a victim of poor lighting design.

I could have saved you some trouble.


For those that are interested in LED's to replace linear Fluorescents, please understand that there isn't one name brand (and even most second rate brands) that won't even endure manuf. time in this. LED's will NOT replace lin. fluorescents as a good lightsource, nor economical. A few 'test' trials have been done on them that I've personally seen.

I have nothing against CFL's except the fact that they have mercury in them and that you can break them easily. If you have animals and/or young kids around, this is bad. There are MANY studies out there showing how small amounts of mercury effect young children. Then you have to think about disposil. 98% of CFL bulbs are not disposed of correctly! So we are needlessly dumping mercury back into the soil and water. Since I like to keep my Hg intake on the low side, I perfer to do what it takes to make sure people are responsible enough to properly dispose of there CFL bulbs. Since I know most people are lazy or don't have the resources to recyle CFL's, I perfer to push LED lighting since it is Hg and Pb free.

As far a how cold... well I am in Michigan, and it is 11F right now at 10am. So CFL's and T8 tubes don't really work that well.

I think you are dead wrong when you say LED's will never take over T8 fluoro tubes. The saving isn't in the electricity on these things, it's in the environmental and labor savings. The environmental savings are that you are dumping less Hg and that you are dumping less waste do to the long life of the bulbs. The labor savings is the fact that you don't have to change the bulbs out as often. If you run a business and are paying someone to change out your bulbs.. you can really save some money by switching to longer lasting bulbs. Plus you also have the added bonus of safer lighting.....

 

[ledstein]

It depends on how you look at it. There are LED tubes out there that put out the same light, but you will be saving only a watt or two. So over time they are going to cost about the same. But, the LED will save on mercury out put. The LED bulb also won't break as easily. So if you have a bad habit of shoving your broom handle into your lights, this will save you clean up time! Also, if you paying someone to change out your bulbs, say in an office or shop, you will save money on labor for changing them out less.

Id like to see a led tube which is as bright as a neon of the same size...

 

[holiday light express]

Neon?

 

[ponygt65]

I have nothing against CFL's except the fact that they have mercury in them and that you can break them easily. If you have animals and/or young kids around, this is bad. There are MANY studies out there showing how small amounts of mercury effect young children. Then you have to think about disposil. 98% of CFL bulbs are not disposed of correctly! So we are needlessly dumping mercury back into the soil and water. Since I like to keep my Hg intake on the low side, I perfer to do what it takes to make sure people are responsible enough to properly dispose of there CFL bulbs. Since I know most people are lazy or don't have the resources to recyle CFL's, I perfer to push LED lighting since it is Hg and Pb free.

As far a how cold... well I am in Michigan, and it is 11F right now at 10am. So CFL's and T8 tubes don't really work that well.

I think you are dead wrong when you say LED's will never take over T8 fluoro tubes. The saving isn't in the electricity on these things, it's in the environmental and labor savings. The environmental savings are that you are dumping less Hg and that you are dumping less waste do to the long life of the bulbs. The labor savings is the fact that you don't have to change the bulbs out as often. If you run a business and are paying someone to change out your bulbs.. you can really save some money by switching to longer lasting bulbs. Plus you also have the added bonus of safer lighting.....

I have four kids, and have been in this industry for quite some time. I have nothing but CFL's (with two exceptions because of dimmers) in my house. Four of which are right over the heads of my kids in their bathroom. Do you realize the amount of mercury exposure that is needed for it to be a health issue? Did you know that there are a fair amount of chinese factories that still fill lamps with mercury by hand?

As for the temp in michigan and T8 lamps.......if you are having issues, it's either A) you have 8' lamps, or B) you have low quality lamp/ballasts. All name brand ballasts are rated to fire 0-10 deg.'s.

My point to my 'hybrid' question, is they are VERY harmful to the environment, but everyone praises them.:shakehead

 

[holiday light express]

I've been a research chemist for 7 years, I've taken several toxicology classes and several environmental classes, my wife is an environmental consultant, so I am very aware of what mercury can do, especially small amounts to kids.

don't get me wrong, I think CFL's are a great option. The issue is that no one is educating people about how to dispose of them. It's was just recently when companies started including safety info whith there products.
Most of these bulbs are getting dumped in landfills where they can leak mercury back into the water and soil.

If it were me, I would have an LED light bulb over my kids head.
1. No immediate or long term mercury
2. Cooler bulb to the touch
3. No UV light
4. No lead
5. No flickering which in rare cases can cause seizers.
6. Can't break it