LEDs will be in short supply throughout 2010
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jtr1962
Flashaholic
The article suggests that LEDs used to backlight TVs are what will be in short supply. As far as I know, those are red, green, and blue for improved color gamut, rather than white. That means we should be OK.
Unless manufacturers ramp up production soon, however, white LEDs will be in short supply as residential LED lighting ( and LED street lighting ) catches on in the next few years.
Unless manufacturers ramp up production soon, however, white LEDs will be in short supply as residential LED lighting ( and LED street lighting ) catches on in the next few years.
LEDninja
Flashlight Enthusiast
... and we assume Nichia, Philips Lumileds, Osram & Cree are the majors.the article said:
MoreGooder
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Unfortunately, the LED backlighting starting in 2009 is high brightness white LED's, not RGB. Edge lit panels have always used white LED's, and now even the local dimming ones do too according to several reviews I've read lately.
There weren't very many RGB backlight led local dimming sets on the market. They were arguably superior in color rendering, but in my experience my Samsung 8500 series LED TV has absolutely no issues showing incredible and stunning lifelike colors. That means that white LED's have been successfully adapted to be used as LED backlighting. There's just no reason to use RGB any longer due to added expense for no distinguishable advantage.
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
The major LED makers, esp. from an IP perspective, are in fact Nichia, Lumileds, Cree and Osram. Aixtron and Veeco are the primary (but not only) firms that supply equipment to these guys, and others, to make the LEDs.
Both Cree and Lumileds have large wafer level technology and production in the US, and Osram has a lot in Germany. Packaging is done a lot of places, frankly to deal with the US income tax system that actually encourages off shore production of everything.
Similar to when cell phones went to LED backlight, Samsung is leading the way to TV backlighting, and this market is currently larger than the supply can feed, but not for that long - possibly through 2010 though. Samsung also makes their own LEDs for internal use - lots of them, but still not enough, so they buy more, mostly from Taiwan second tier suppliers.
Most of those LEDs are relatively lower power, and frankly, the quality standards are low, especially for color control due to the large amount of color averaging that you get with lots of LEDs in a system. This is the part of the market that will see price stability vs dropping, as the TV application is like a vaccuum cleaner for every LED that comes off the line.
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
That 8500 model is indeed nice, but you would be perhaps stunned to put it side x side next to a prototype LED backlit display I saw at Lumileds 5 years ago using a different backlighting approach and RGB. It was a much thicker set, but it's depth perception still blows away what I have seen on the market today.
IMHO, if people saw what was really possible with LED backlighting on TVs, they would be really struggling with the "thin" vs "quality depth perception" aspect a lot more. The movie playing on that demo is so burned into my mind I was disappointed in the commercial led backlit sets.
jtr1962
Flashaholic
While I didn't see the demo TV, everything I've read on the subject tells me how superior RGB backlighting is to white. It's disappointing to hear that manufacturers are using white. It kind of makes the price premium LED-backlit sets are currently commanding not really worth it. I'll grant they are likely noticeably better than CCFL sets in terms of color gamut, and also longer lasting, but still nowhere near RGB. Maybe that will change if/when high-CRI whites become inexpensive/bright/cheap enough to use for backlighting.
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hi JTR,
I am not really sure that my eyes have sufficient color perception to know if white backlit TVs are better / worse than the RBG based setups or not.
The demo TV I saw at Lumileds really stood out not only for color (compared to the side x side CFL version of the time), but 3D / depth perception, and everyone in the room noticed it.
When you watch a normal TV, the images are relatively flat with little perception of depth, and this continues with the LCD and LED backlit LCDs I see in the stores, as they are mostly side lit technology or into a flat plastic light diffusion panel.
The demo version at Lumileds had the LEDs mounted in sort of a light box - about 6-12 inches deep, and facing foward toward the back of the LCD screen. They were probably Lux Is back then. This setup produced an true feeling of picture depth into the screen - something I expected from LED backlit TVs but is not there on the retail ones I have seen.
I am guessing that most people, like my wife, are more interested in thin TV screens than the depth perception aspect, which explains the lack of this feature in the existing crop of LED backlit LCD TVs.
Of course, we are still using a rear projection analog TV as it works just fine and can change channels 4x faster than any digital set I have seen.
I am not really sure that my eyes have sufficient color perception to know if white backlit TVs are better / worse than the RBG based setups or not.
The demo TV I saw at Lumileds really stood out not only for color (compared to the side x side CFL version of the time), but 3D / depth perception, and everyone in the room noticed it.
When you watch a normal TV, the images are relatively flat with little perception of depth, and this continues with the LCD and LED backlit LCDs I see in the stores, as they are mostly side lit technology or into a flat plastic light diffusion panel.
The demo version at Lumileds had the LEDs mounted in sort of a light box - about 6-12 inches deep, and facing foward toward the back of the LCD screen. They were probably Lux Is back then. This setup produced an true feeling of picture depth into the screen - something I expected from LED backlit TVs but is not there on the retail ones I have seen.
I am guessing that most people, like my wife, are more interested in thin TV screens than the depth perception aspect, which explains the lack of this feature in the existing crop of LED backlit LCD TVs.
Of course, we are still using a rear projection analog TV as it works just fine and can change channels 4x faster than any digital set I have seen.
MoreGooder
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There's a significant difference between LED TV's with "local dimming" and ones that are "edge lit". It is the edge lit TV's that are razor thin. (Who watches TV from the side anway? I call this pure marketing genious. They've managed to make inferior backlighting technology into a something that people buy for a rediculous reason)
Local dimming RGB LED TV's and white LED local dimming TV's both have LED zones behind the LCD screen. The only difference between the two is the LED's themselves.
I think part of the confusion is that folks are equating edge lit LED's with a low quality image and falsely associating it with the mere use of white LED's.
LED TV's that use white LED's in local dimming arrays are excellent TV's, and are bested only by their RGB LED equivalents. No one makes RGB LED local dimming TV's because of their cost, as well as the additionall complications associated with controlling the intensity of three colors vs one color.
Although I will probably never have an opportunity to do a side-by-side of local dimming White and local dimming RGB TV's, my instincts tell me that the depth perception that people experience is due to the local dimming itself, and not white vs RGB. I too have noticed the incredible life-like images and the increased sense of depth. My theory is that this is due to the incredibly refined contrast that is achieved. When you get inky blacks, subtle grays, perfectly blue skies, perfect flesh tones, etc, it is very much as if you are looking out of a window. It is absolutely astonishing to see.
Has anyone guessed by now that I love my Samsung 8500 yet? LOL.
Anyway, I hope my rediculously long addition to this thread is helpful somehow. Now.... maybe I'll go outside and.... NAH, I'll just watch TV. It's cold out there!
Local dimming RGB LED TV's and white LED local dimming TV's both have LED zones behind the LCD screen. The only difference between the two is the LED's themselves.
I think part of the confusion is that folks are equating edge lit LED's with a low quality image and falsely associating it with the mere use of white LED's.
LED TV's that use white LED's in local dimming arrays are excellent TV's, and are bested only by their RGB LED equivalents. No one makes RGB LED local dimming TV's because of their cost, as well as the additionall complications associated with controlling the intensity of three colors vs one color.
Although I will probably never have an opportunity to do a side-by-side of local dimming White and local dimming RGB TV's, my instincts tell me that the depth perception that people experience is due to the local dimming itself, and not white vs RGB. I too have noticed the incredible life-like images and the increased sense of depth. My theory is that this is due to the incredibly refined contrast that is achieved. When you get inky blacks, subtle grays, perfectly blue skies, perfect flesh tones, etc, it is very much as if you are looking out of a window. It is absolutely astonishing to see.
Has anyone guessed by now that I love my Samsung 8500 yet? LOL.
Anyway, I hope my rediculously long addition to this thread is helpful somehow. Now.... maybe I'll go outside and.... NAH, I'll just watch TV. It's cold out there!
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MoreGooder
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OH! I should add one very important comment about LED TV's. Many of them (perhaps all?) use a particular type of LCD manufacturing technology patented by Sony called Vertical Alignment, or VA screens.
The advantage of this type of LCD screen is that it can produce very high contrast ratios in of themselves when a very high intensity backlight is used.
The disadvantage of VA screens is that the image becomes rather milky when viewed from the sides. In other words, if you had one of these TV's in your living room with a long couch directly across from the TV, the folks on the couch would enjoy a perfect image, but the poor folks sitting off to the sides get a lesser quality image. Just be mindful of that when choosing a TV. I believe this applies to both local dimming and edge lit TVs, so be careful!
The advantage of this type of LCD screen is that it can produce very high contrast ratios in of themselves when a very high intensity backlight is used.
The disadvantage of VA screens is that the image becomes rather milky when viewed from the sides. In other words, if you had one of these TV's in your living room with a long couch directly across from the TV, the folks on the couch would enjoy a perfect image, but the poor folks sitting off to the sides get a lesser quality image. Just be mindful of that when choosing a TV. I believe this applies to both local dimming and edge lit TVs, so be careful!
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