LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V Batteries

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bspofford

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I've been considering purchasing AW's LiFePO4 3.2V batteries, but @ $6 they have only 500mAH and don't seem to have any overcharge or discharge protection. I have been using Tenergy 3.0V Li-ion batteries with 900 mAH and both overcharge and discharge protection at a cost of about $4 per cell. Today I came across a Tenergy LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V at All-Battery that reports 750 mAH and overcharge and discharge protection with a sale price of only $2.39 per cell. Does anybody have experience with LiFePO4 cells, and can I trust that the Tenergy cells are really 750 mAH?
 
It's been reported on CPF that the 900mAh Tenergy cells don't really have any more capacity than their competitors. Based on that, I doubt the Tenergy LiFePO4 cells would have much better capacity than AW's cells. If there is a difference, I doubt it would be noticeable during normal usage of a light (which is typically on and off cycles and not continuous).
 
I have both AW's and Tenergy's LiFEPO4. AW's have definitely have more capacity. I get about 10 more minutes of runtime with AW cells than Tenergy in my Inova T1. The Tenergy cells do have an advantage. They are noticeably smaller in diameter than the AW cells. They are nearly identical in diameter to the Energizer E2 primaries that came with my light. I've been throwing around the idea of picking up a new Cree surefire and giving the Tenergy cells a go. All-Battery has a coupon good for a few percent off and free shipping. I got my Tenergy cells for about $1.80/cell delivered.
The code is independence, and it still worked as of Sunday evening.
 
I think the main advantage to the Tenergy's is the size as mentioned. THat's pretty cool! Too bad that the capacity is even lower than the AW's!

I don't see any over discharge or overcharge protection in either cell. Ithink it's just the safe nature of the cells (they function a lot like Nimh, so inherently safe with protection circuitry).

THe Tenergy's seem to have a discharge limit of 550 ma, I thought the AW's were good for higher current than that...

Someone will have to compare since this is a good price. Gotta check the shipping to Canada...
 
Hey one thing I noticed...

The pictures of the Tenergy cell all say Li-ion, not LiFEP04, these are the same picture as the 750 mah Li-on (3.0V) cells found at battery junction.

Are we sure these are LiFEPO4? I know the description says so, but the picture does not. I took a quick peek at the Tenergy website (which sucks) and saw no LiFePO4...


:confused:
 
My Tenergy cells have no indication of chemistry inside. They just say:

"750mAh RCR123A 3.0V"
"RECHARGEABLE LI-ON BATTERY"

IMO they are definitely LiFEPO4 cells based on their performance and behavior
 
Matt Sutton said:
My Tenergy cells have no indication of chemistry inside. They just say:

"750mAh RCR123A 3.0V"
"RECHARGEABLE LI-ON BATTERY"

IMO they are definitely LiFEPO4 cells based on their performance and behavior
Click to expand...

Please explain the performance and behavior. They sound like 3.0V li-on, NOT LiFEPO4, but I don't own any so can't say for certain.

Li-ON implies Lithium Ion.

It should say LiFEPO4 somewhere...

Take a look at Battery Junction, they have the same cell and it is not speced as LiFEPO4.

I think maybe All-Battery may have it wrong... (maybe).
 
The performance and behavior are nearly identical to AW's cells, only with slightly less runtime. The starting voltage is the same, and I've drawn them down as low as 1.6V without any negative effects. If they were regular RCR123 they wouldn't have sprung back from that.
 
Hmmm. yeah.

The description at Battery JUnction could be a bit ambiguous too.

I can only ask that MattK from BJ chime in, since you could be right.

If so, this would be a nice cheaper source of LiFEPO4 batteries...

:devil:
 
Hmm the Tenergys are discharge protected yet they can hit 1.6v?

I've had li-ons bounce back from 1+v too and work just fine. I doubt that's a good indicator. I guess we'll need more definite feedback.
 
I have had Tenergy Li-ion 3.0V 900 mAH batteries for some time, and they do seem to have protection against over discharge. My Li-ion cells are blue, and the new LiFePO4 cells are yellow. The All-Battery description clearly advertises that the LiFePO4 chemistry is safer. Is it possible that these new batteries do have a higher capacity than an older version?
 
I forgot to mention that All-Battery also advertises that these can be recharged upto 2000 cycles as opposed to Li-ion cells that can typically be charged only 500 cycles. If they last four times as long, they would be really cheap at less than $2.00 per cell.
 
I hear that these LiFePO4 batts usually have about half the energy densities as the normal Li-ions. Is this true and do yall notice the difference between using these and the Li-ions of the same size.
 
I copied the following from the All-Battery advertisement for this "New" product:

New Chemical LiFePO4 Li-Ion battery
  • Rechargeable LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAhBattery
  • Life cycle: 2000 times (Traditional Li-ion: 500 times)
  • Never explode or catch fire
  • 100% Compatible with Disposable CR123A Batteries
  • Working Voltage:3.2V and Peak Voltage: 3.6V
  • Charging cut-off voltage: 3.6V
  • Discharge cut-off voltage: 2.2V
  • Capacity: 750 mAh
  • Maximum discharging rate:< 550 mA
  • Maximum charge current: <550 mA
  • Cell's dimension: 17mm Dia. x 34.5mm H.
  • Weight: 0.6 oz (18 grams).
 
I have no reason to doubt that me cells are LiFEPO4 chemistry. They were sold as such and behave exactly as such. I know for a fact that they have no protection circuit as the other Tenergy RCR123's have.
They were a good deal at <$2/cell and I like them in spite of their short runtime. If they fit in the new Surefire tubes I'm sure they will become much more popular.
 
Has anyone tried either of these cells in an Inova X5? I am looking to see if anyone has prior to purchasing the red (single-cell) Inova X5.

Also, is there a consensus of which chemistry is the "better" one right now? It seems that AW's are reported to be higher capacity (from reports in this very thread!)

LEDAdd1ct
 
bspofford said:
I copied the following from the All-Battery advertisement for this "New" product:

New Chemical LiFePO4 Li-Ion battery
  • Rechargeable LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAhBattery
  • Life cycle: 2000 times (Traditional Li-ion: 500 times)
  • Never explode or catch fire
  • 100% Compatible with Disposable CR123A Batteries
  • Working Voltage:3.2V and Peak Voltage: 3.6V
  • Charging cut-off voltage: 3.6V
  • Discharge cut-off voltage: 2.2V
  • Capacity: 750 mAh
  • Maximum discharging rate:< 550 mA
  • Maximum charge current: <550 mA
  • Cell's dimension: 17mm Dia. x 34.5mm H.
  • Weight: 0.6 oz (18 grams).
Click to expand...

I thought LiFePo batteries could handle higher current draws than this.
-Winston
 
winston said:
I thought LiFePo batteries could handle higher current draws than this.
-Winston
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I thought, and the so called experts were not too concerned about it. I have found that a draw of about 750Ma from a Romisen RC-F4 Q5 on Tenergy LiFePO4 cells is killing them. The light performed for about 1/4 the life of my cheap Trustfire LiCoO2 cells.

I've killed two cells out of 6 already. They show a full charge, but are dead in a very short time. I'm not sure about the real life of LiFePO4 cells, but I think they are dieing much too quickly.
 
Last edited:
eng_driver said:
I've killed two cells out of 6 already. They show a full charge, but are dead in a very short time. I'm not sure about the real life of LiFePO4 cells, but I think they are dieing much too quickly.
Click to expand...

Some of my LiFePO4 died exactly that way, although I think it's because they have problems to begin with. When I first got them I used them in two cell lights, one would always die first while the other still have quite a bit of charge left. Later I used them in novatac and the bad ones would cause it to step down only seconds after on max. Out of 4 I used only 1 survived.
 
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