3.0V RCR123A USB Li-ion - what are they good for?

[ViperaPiper]

So Keeppower has two revisions of those 3.0V regulated microUSB charging cells:
- P1634U1 - 860mAh and 1.5A max discharge rate, these are slightly longer than CR123A
- P1634U2 - 1000mAh and 2A max current, and these are exactly the same size as CR123A.
I've seen them mentioned around the forum, but was left with the impression that no one is really sure what purpose they fill. They are a no go for incan bulbs because of the regulation. What about CR123A powered LED flashlights? Are they a good fit for those?
Are they a good idea to be used in flashlights at all?

 

[desert.snake]

My friend is using one for an old e1b that can run from 16340 3.7V but does something like blinking that bothers him

They're good for most old led flashlights whose drivers can burn out from 3.7V, or for modern Malkoff MDC CR123, but I don't know if they can suddenly turn off when the flashlight discharges them too much or if there is some kind of warning there

 

[hamhanded]

Why are they no go for incandescent?

 

[fivemega]

Why are they no go for incandescent?

As long as current draw is within the spec, and extra length is OK there is no problem for use with incandescent.
Nominal voltage is 3 volt but drop to about 2.5V under 1.2 Amps. Similar to primary CR123A

 

[vicv]

As long as current draw is within the spec, and extra length is OK there is no problem for use with incandescent.
Nominal voltage is 3 volt but drop to about 2.5V under 1.2 Amps. Similar to primary CR123A

Five mega……can you please link where you got this information? I would very much like to see it. With all due respect, you mention this every time this question comes up. And I believe it is false information. I would be happy to be proven wrong. But all use cases of these cells is not the way you describe. Others have had a P60 blow in under an hour of use running these cells. These bulbs are getting rarer and rarer all the time. And this false information could cause more to disappear.
If the way you describe is the way these cells perform, that means they are garbage and no one should use them. If it's regulated for 3 V, it should put out 3 V regardless of the load until you've gone outside of their specifications. That's what regulation is for.

 

[ViperaPiper]

Perhaps it could be measured if it drops under load? I have a pair of the 1000mAh ones and a Chinese 6V bulb I don't care about. Only have to find a multimeter.

 

[vicv]

Perhaps it could be measured if it drops under load? I have a pair of the 1000mAh ones and a Chinese 6V bulb I don't care about. Only have to find a multimeter.

Those Chinese P60 drop-in are awesome. But cheap as Chips as they say.

 

[ViperaPiper]

Those Chinese P60 drop-in are awesome. But cheap as Chips as they say.

It's an old stock Nextorch one. From when they used to make P60 style flashlights. And it doesn't fit Surefires without some tinkering.

 

[fivemega]

Five mega……can you please link where you got this information? I would very much like to see it. With all due respect, you mention this every time this question comes up. And I believe it is false information. I would be happy to be proven wrong. But all use cases of these cells is not the way you describe. Others have had a P60 blow in under an hour of use running these cells. These bulbs are getting rarer and rarer all the time. And this false information could cause more to disappear.
If the way you describe is the way these cells perform, that means they are garbage and no one should use them. If it's regulated for 3 V, it should put out 3 V regardless of the load until you've gone outside of their specifications. That's what regulation is for.

I got these information from my own experience with 6P, genuine P60 bulb and pair of 860mAh Keeopower 3V RCR123A
I tested outside flashlight under load of P60 and read about 5.8 volt which will be about 5 volt with resistance of switch.
If these cells can not be used instead of primary CR123A then what is it good for?
If anyone knowledgeable inside US wants to test this setup, i can send him/her free P60 to test.

 

[vicv]

Ah. Thanks. That sounds about right. A little low but pretty close to 6v. I seriously doubt though that it drops 0.8v with a switch. First, if the switches were that high in resistance, they'd burn up. And different switches like the zero res would give serious performance advantages to Incan setups. 0.8 v is a lot!
As to why they make them? No idea. But if they were meant to properly mimic a primary cr123, they'd be regulated at 2.5v, not 3 volts. As for testing any ~1.1A load would suffice

 

[Ocelot808]

To help with a bit of perspective, 30 years ago when CR123As were in common use the vast majority of its application was for cameras and camera accessories which were not high constant current loads. These 3.0V regulated batteries are meant as a rechargeable option for those purposes. The use of CR123As in flashlights came about as an afterthought almost. These 3.0V regulated rechargeables always have a significantly reduced capacity and strict current limitations compared to primary cells which are plainly better suited for flashlights.

 

[ViperaPiper]

For low draw LED flashlights they should be perfect. For incans, even though they are rated for 2A, I understand that on startup it exceeds that by much and it is pretty demanding on the PCBs of the batteries.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

For low draw LED flashlights they should be perfect. For incans, even though they are rated for 2A, I understand that on startup it exceeds that by much and it is pretty demanding on the PCBs of the batteries.

Why would that matter?

Most LEDs will want higher voltage on a single cell unless running a boost circuit or low vf LED.

 

[Ocelot808]

Why would that matter?

Most LEDs will want higher voltage on a single cell unless running a boost circuit or low vf LED.

I think he's referring to inrush current for incandescent bulbs, not a startup voltage

 

[aznsx]

different switches like the zero res

I learn something new every day, although that's easier when one like me doesn't know much to start with!

Anything which 'sounds' like an electrical impossibility gets my attention. Gotta link to info on that?

 

[vicv]

I learn something new every day, although that's easier when one like me doesn't know much to start with!

Anything which 'sounds' like an electrical impossibility gets my attention. Gotta link to info on that?

ZERO RESISTANCE tail cap mod for Surefire Z41 - Deliver more current, reliably

Here is a hot new part for you guys. Do you run a: - Direct Drive Triple XPG - SST50 pocket rocket - SST90 pocket rocket - Incan hotwire - Anything with high current needs ?????????? Todays high current lights are in need of a tail cap that can handle the load. There are no tail assemblies...

www.candlepowerforums.com

This was one of them. I believe if my memory is correct, overready made another. But I can't find a link to it. Probably discontinued. If you search overready zero-rez you'll find some links on this forum

 

[vicv]

To help with a bit of perspective, 30 years ago when CR123As were in common use the vast majority of its application was for cameras and camera accessories which were not high constant current loads. These 3.0V regulated batteries are meant as a rechargeable option for those purposes. The use of CR123As in flashlights came about as an afterthought almost. These 3.0V regulated rechargeables always have a significantly reduced capacity and strict current limitations compared to primary cells which are plainly better suited for flashlights.

I do believe these are made for flashlights though as they're from keeppower. But they're for led flashlights. A led flashlight may take 2A on high, but only 100ma on low. On that draw, a primary would barely drop below 3v. So obviously the drivers can handle a full 6V. A non aviator Incan though isn't regulated. And can't. So these aren't meant to "drop" under load just like a primary. They're regulated to put out a steady 3.0v regardless of the draw. Until they're being overdrawn. But that's outside of their design and cant be taken into account

 

[aznsx]

ZERO RESISTANCE tail cap mod for Surefire Z41 - Deliver more current, reliably

Here is a hot new part for you guys. Do you run a: - Direct Drive Triple XPG - SST50 pocket rocket - SST90 pocket rocket - Incan hotwire - Anything with high current needs ?????????? Todays high current lights are in need of a tail cap that can handle the load. There are no tail assemblies...

www.candlepowerforums.com

This was one of them. I believe if my memory is correct, overready made another. But I can't find a link to it. Probably discontinued. If you search overready zero-rez you'll find some links on this forum

Thanks! See, I told ya I'd learn something today! I had no idea such ever existed.

 

[vicv]

You're welcome

 

[bignc]

I do believe these are made for flashlights though as they're from keeppower. But they're for led flashlights. A led flashlight may take 2A on high, but only 100ma on low. On that draw, a primary would barely drop below 3v. So obviously the drivers can handle a full 6V. A non aviator Incan though isn't regulated. And can't. So these aren't meant to "drop" under load just like a primary. They're regulated to put out a steady 3.0v regardless of the draw. Until they're being overdrawn. But that's outside of their design and cant be taken into account

so basically, I've been using these exact cells for two years. I use them in a couple different hosts with P60 lamps. I only use them to see things outside when letting the dogs out and they never leave the house. So 5 to 10 seconds at a time maybe 30 to 45 seconds a night. I'm only on my second lamp however.

are you saying I've been lucky? Or do you think that they're higher initial voltage is just stressing the sales more? So you're saying I should have shortened lifetime from the lamps compared to just running primaries? I'm driving and dictating with a friend holding the phone, so hopefully it doesn't sound like I am arguing. I'm just asking so that I can change my set up appropriately.