Lights of America AC bulb replacements

[Dave_H]

Hi folks, new to this board. I have a wide range of LED interests from
flashlights/lanterns (low-end), room lighting, Christmas lights, night-lights,
and solar-charged (mostly garden) lights. I've done a bit of DIY, nothing
heavy-duty up to now. Looking forward to interesting discussions.

Also, I've been running CFLs since 1989, when they cost $30
each. Even then, that 9W CFL/base would break even against a 40W
incandescent in its lifetime. I still use a few of the straight tubes and
heavy ballast bases. Recently a dollar store started selling 11W
Sunbeam CFLs for $1 each; not saying they're the best, but how times
have changed.

To the subject...Wal-Mart Canada and another hardware chain (Home
Hardware) carry some Lights of America AC bulb replacements, primarily
chandelier and some spots. I recall these were discussed here, with fair
criticism. I decided to try a 1.5W round WW downlight which they
incorrectly claim replaces a 40W incandescent; I'd put it somewhere
between a 7W Christmas bulb and 15W chandelier bulb, or a 4-5W
fluorescent tube (but not done a critical comparison). Nevertheless, it
produces good low-level light and should pay for itself over stated
30,000- hour lifetime, assuming it lasts that long.

If people don't like the looks of them that's fine, just wondering other
than price and limited brightness, what are the issues with these products.

Dave

 

[Light Sabre]

Don't under any circumstances buy any more. They are total crap. I bought a bunch of them and they didn't even last 6 months. They either died or were only half brightness and they're not very bright to begin with. So don't buy any more 5 mm showerhead type of AC powered LED lights. LED technology to replace AC incandescent lights is not here yet. Stick with CFL's.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

I bought two myself for using in the bathroom. I thought that they would pay for themselves quicker that way as bathroom lights are often turned on and off in about a minute which isn't good for fluorescents. I thought with short term use, even heatsinking wouldn't be much of an issue. I was wrong about those bulbs. With temporary use, one has burned out already with hardly any use at all. These things are pieces of junk. If you want to use l.e.d.s for home lighting, get some good ones with Luxeon Rebels or Cree XR-Es. Even better would be to wait until they have Cree XP-Gs in a bulb. Right now, the vast majority of l.e.d. lights for this application are either way to expensive, are cheap pieces of junk that don't last, or at best have the same efficiency as cheaper CFLs.

 

[yalskey]

I bought some Lights of America AC bulbs for my foyer light in my house. The use the small sized screw base, and are flame-tipped.

I got them from Costco about 4 or 5 months ago I guess.

Yesterday I got a letter from Lights of America saying that I could take them back to Costco for a full refund because they actually found out the led bulbs lasted less than what was advertised on the package.

When I first put them in and turned them on, they were really dim. Now they seem even dimmer. My wife jokes at me saying (as we walk in the front door, coming home) "If you have to look up at the bulb to tell if the light is on, it's not bright enough".

I think I'm going to take these things back.

By reading the above posts, I suppose I shouldn't try and search out any other replacement LED bulbs, as the technology isn't there yet... or maybe there's not a major manufacturer that makes them well yet.

Any suggestions would help. Thanks.

 

[jtr1962]

By reading the above posts, I suppose I shouldn't try and search out any other replacement LED bulbs, as the technology isn't there yet... or maybe there's not a major manufacturer that makes them well yet.

The problem is using indicator type LEDs. I've recently tested a bunch of LED bulbs for someone. As soon as I get the OK from him I'll start a thread. Bottom line is the ones using indicator-type LEDs stink. Not only in most cases is the output poor, but almost invariably it degrades very quickly. It took only 300 hours for two I long-term tested to drop to under 70% of initial output. On the other hand, I have ones with power LEDs which passed the 300 hour mark without issues. Three of the six are actually brighter than when I started. We'll see how these do as time goes on. Of course, the lamps using power LEDs cost about twice what the others do, but there's the old adage you get what you pay for.

Another fact I've gleaned from my testing is that 5 watts using passive cooling is about the limit for the A19 lamp form factor. This means using the best available LEDs (Cree XP-G R5s), you'll be lucky to match the output of a 60 watt incandescent while still staying within the thermal envelope. The good news is that there are some interesting new cooling technologies which can allow 15 watts or more in light-bulb form factors. The trade-off of course is that this will add to the cost. The bonus is that in addition to allowing increased output for any given form factor, LED life can also be dramatically extended to 50,000 or even 100,000 hours.

Bottom line is that LED technology is already there if you're willing to pay a reasonable amount for a lamp (say $40 retail for something to replace a 100 watt incandescent). If we keep insisting that LED lamps cost no more than CFLs or even incandescents, then we're going to have to wait a long, long time, perhaps forever. What really is more important now than the design of the lamps themselves is educating consumers on the reasons why that $40 LED bulb will save them lots of money down the road. I'll try that next paragraph.

OK, we have three lamps with the specs as shown below:

Incandescent

Input power: 100 watts
Lifetime: 1000 hours
Output: 1600 lumens
Cost: $0.25

CFL

Input power: 26 watts
Lifetime: 8000 hours
Output: 1600 lumens
Cost: $5.00

LED (actively cooled, XP-G R5 LEDs)

Input power: 16 watts
Lifetime: 100,000 hours
Output: 1600 lumens
Cost: $40.00

Cost of electricity: $0.10 per kW-hr
Lamps are assumed to be on for 5.5 hours per day ( ~2000 hours annually)

Cost of electricity annually:

Incandescent: $20.00
CFL: $5.20
LED: $3.20

Lamp replacement:

Incandescent: 2 lamps per year
CFL: 1 lamp every 4 years
LED: 1 lamp every 50 years

Total cost of ownership (1 year):

Incandescent: $20.50
CFL: $10.20
LED: $43.20

Total cost of ownership (2 years):

Incandescent: $41.00
CFL: $15.40
LED: $46.40

Total cost of ownership (5 years):

Incandescent: $102.50
CFL: $36.00
LED: $56.00

Total cost of ownership (10 years):

Incandescent: $205.00
CFL: $62.00
LED: $72.00

Total cost of ownership (15 years):

Incandescent: $307.50
CFL: $93.00
LED: $88.00

Total cost of ownership (20 years):

Incandescent: $410.00
CFL: $124.00
LED: $104.00

The LED bulb is actually cheaper in the long run than competing technologies even when you only take the analysis out to 15 years. And with electricity already costing way more than $0.10 per kW-hr in many parts of the country the payback would be shorter, in some cases as little as 5-6 years compared to a CFL. Moreover, as we all know CFL life is shortened by frequent starts, so in many cases you may not even reach the advertised 8000 hours. Basically, provided consumers realize they need to pay around $40 to get a well-designed LED lamp with reliable electronics, they will basically be paying for a "screw it in and forget about it for the next few decades" solution. In my opinion this is what the manufacturers of these lamps should be addressing, NOT trying to make them cheaper (although that will eventually happen to some degree with mass production).

 

[yalskey]

Holly crap... that was, uhhhhmm, extensive.

 

[Bullseye00]

I bought some Lights of America LED bulbs in March of this year. I haven't had any burn out, but after 2-3 months I noticed they were getting dimmer. After a while they were so dim that they weren't really useful.(even in a desk lamp)
I thought it'd be unlikely that it was the LED's themselves because they were all uniformly the same (dimmer) light level. I figured it was some cheap component in the AC to DC conversion circuit. The LEDs were conveniently isolated on their own circuit board, connected by two leads to the power conversion board. So I swapped the LED board from a dim light with the LED board from an unused light that was still bright, figuring the problem would stay with the base. But the dimness followed the LED board, meaning that somehow all the (cheap, crummy) LED's are dimming down with unusual uniformity, indicating an odd level of quality control for what must be a very cheaply produced product. So there's no cheap, easy fix for them, the problem is the LED's themselves. Evidently, Lights of America knows about the issue and they're offering refunds. We should probably try to get our money back.
I hate to go back to CFL's, so I keep checking for new LED "bulb" type lights. I found some new "energy smart" LED bulb lights made by GE at Sam's Club next to the "Lights of America" lights. So I'm trying those now. I'm taking power readings now, and will know in a few days how they stack up(power consumption) to the Lights of America models. As far as reliability, that'll take several months. It looks like they start off brighter, but they're rated at 2 & 2.5 watts, compared to 1.0 & 1.5 watts for similar LoA models. I can deal with the higher power consumption, if they'll just last longer. I can't find the new lights on http://www.gelighting.com/ The GE part number for the 2 watt/60 lumen(their spec) flame shape, chandelier model is 78164, UPC 43168 78164, for the 2.5 watt/80 lumen regular bulb shape is 78165, UPC 43168 78165.
The 2.5 watt GE bulb has a translucent white covering and looks much more "conventional" than the LoA bulb, and the 2.0 watt "flame tip" has a translucent bulb within the clear glass "flame" shape. Both put out a more diffuse light that isn't as harsh as the LoA lights, but the chandelier bulb is kinda ugly looking(IMO) and that will probably put people off.(Though I don't really mind.) The chandelier model has a small base but includes an adapter so you can use it in a standard base.) Sam's Club is selling them in 2 packs for $20. Slightly pricier than the LoAs, but once again, if they'll last I don't really mind. Probably they won't, but after a few months I'll have a better idea.
Sorry I can't be much help. I'll post the power consumption readings(from a Kill A Watt unit, nothing sophisticated) in a few days after they've been running 100 hours. I won't know for at least a couple of months if they're going to start dimming.(Unless they're *really* bad.) I don't hold out much hope, as they're a "light bulb" type design. It looks like he heat sinking *could* better on these, but I haven't taken any of them apart yet.(The LoA's have nothing except the long leads and circuit board traces to bleed off heat and dissipate it.)
I'll post power data in a few days. After 6 hours, both GE lights are still reading 0.00 kwh on Kill A Watt. It took 10 hours for the 1.5 watt LoA bulb to read 0.01 kwh on Kill A Watt. Kill A Watt doesn't have the granularity for such low power stuff, so I have to run it for a decent length of time.

 

[Dave_H]

II'll post power data in a few days. After 6 hours, both GE lights are still reading 0.00 kwh on Kill A Watt. It took 10 hours for the 1.5 watt LoA bulb to read 0.01 kwh on Kill A Watt. Kill A Watt doesn't have the granularity for such low power stuff, so I have to run it for a decent length of time.

I know the problem; I use a similar consumer line power meter
made by UPM. Instantaneous power only reads to the nearest
watt. I've checked small nightlights that read 0W but know it's
not true (or I'd be lighting the house free with a whole whack of
them)

Thanks all for the interesting feedback. I'd only be out $10 for one
of these self-dimming LoA bulbs, but could probably return it for
refund. Pretty sad, as the construction seems OK as does initial
brightness, all things considered. I tried the bulb outside in my
porch light, and it was not bad (not as bright as neighbour's
13W CFL obviously). Temperature is hovering above/below
freezing; I wonder if cooler ambient would extend the life, or
the LEDs are doomed to dim regardless? Also, is this type of
design (with LEDs standing up on long leads) inherently doomed
or could be modestly successful with better LEDs?

I believe you guys who endorse high-quality emitters with
proper cooling. Prices are high, for example small 6W Philips
spots at Home Depot in Canada, price >$30 each. These are
4x1.5W. I'm holding my breath on 60W-100W incan. replacements
that are truly equivalent.

Home Depot's rival around here (Rona) offers some 12v and AC
LED plug-ins of a different brand (Globe). Anyone know about
these? Are small MRxx spots with a bunch of 5mm LEDs going to
suffer the same fate as the LoA types?

Dave

 

[Bullseye00]

After 100 hours straight, these are my power readings. Note the GE 2.5 watt comes in slightly *less* than the GE 2.0 watt. The GE's were tested several months after the LoA's and the CFL, so maybe my test environment has changed. I may re-run these with the bulbs swapped into the opposite fixtures.

100 hour test results
LoA 1.5 watt .1 kwh
GE 2.0 watt .16 kwh
GE 2.5 watt .15 kwh
LoA 3.5 watt .22 kwh
CFL 10 watt .98 kwh

I tested the GE bulbs with 100 hours running time vs controls that had not been run for more than a couple of minutes. The "used" GE bulbs seemed slightly brighter than the fresh ones. This made me suspicious, so I took the bulbs out, mixed them up, and replaced them not knowing which was which. The bulbs with 100 hours on them still looked slightly brighter. Not enough to really matter, but evident under close scrutiny. I also tested the LoA and GE bulbs relative to each other.(controls, not bulbs run 100 hours) I found the GE 2.5s were noticeably brighter than the GE 2.0s and significantly brighter than LoA 1.5s. Though even the GE 2.5 watt bulbs didn't compare to the output of a 10 watt CFL, even when I compared *two* GE 2.5 watt bulbs. Maybe three or four GE 2.5 watt bulbs might have had and equal output to the 10 watt CFL, I couldn't really set up to test that many bulbs at once. Since their power consumption is less than one quarter that of a 10 watt CFL, you'd still not be using as much power if you used four of them in place of one 10 watt CFL.(In places where you could use that many bulbs in place of one.)

So *if* they don't fade in a few months, the GE bulbs would probably be good to use in places like bathroom fixtures, rooms with multiple lamps, or a chandelier where you have multiple bulbs lighting a given area. Or for a desk lamp or other situation where you have a single bulbs lighting a very small area.

 

[Bullseye00]

Addendum:
A few details about my testing, and the bulbs themselves.
My "relative brightness" tests were done in a small room with two lamp fixtures, both looking directly at the bulbs and comparing how they lit the room. I didn't have any of the LoA 3.5 watt bulbs that hadn't faded, so I didn't include those in the relative brightness testing.
The light from the GE bulbs seems whiter to me than the light from the LoA bulbs. The 1.5 watt LoA bulbs seem yellower, and the 3.5 watt LoA bulbs have a definite blue tint.(Blue enough to probably make a lot of people pass just from the color alone.)
The light from the GE bulbs also seems less harsh to my eyes than the LoA bulbs. I think they're clearly an improvement over the LoA bulbs.
Handling the bulbs after running them for a while, the CFL is the hottest, the base being uncomfortably hot and the "spiral" being slightly painful. The GE "bulbs" were slightly warm to the touch, and the bases were definitely warm, but not uncomfortably so.(less warm than the CFL base) The LoA bulbs were very slightly warm, and the bases were discernibly warm, but significantly cooler than the bases of the GE lights. I checked the GE bulbs, and the bases took several minutes to cool down, so the heat sinking may not very good. We'll see how they last.

 

[lostsoul01]

I took a look at those GE bulbs today. I am not sure, but they didn't appear to be standard leds like the LOA bulbs. Are they possibly the GE LED mentioned in another thread? What do you think?

I'd imagine a 10W CFL would output 400 lumens, so if you say 4 of the 2.5W (80 lumen) bulbs might equal one of the CFLs, it sounds like their packaging might even be accurate. I did notice they claim a satisfaction guarantee on the package! I think it also said 2900k color temperature.

It sounds like this is a better option than the 4W 100 lumen LED bulb from walmart for $25. The L/W is slightly better but the price is much better. And it isn't a spot light, but a regular bulb light.

Please keep us informed on how they last!

 

[Bullseye00]

Well, something is wrong with my test setup. After 20 hours the same lamp has ticked over to 0.01 first on the Kill A Watt. So that same lamp will end up reading higher again, though now it has the higher draw(2.5 watt) light in it and so it should be registering higher. But this means something has changed in my test environment, and the lamps are no longer drawing current equally. I'm going to have to crawl around and check how things are plugged in. I thought that they were both still plugged in to the wall socket by a single power strip, but I might have plugged one of them into a UPS when hurricane season started, etc... So scratch my power consumption readings for now. I'm going to have to set up again and re-calibrate my test rig. I may just set up a couple of table lamps that I don't normally use in an out of the way place, just to be a test rig. Then I'll have to recalibrate and start over. That'll take days.

@lostsoul01

If you mean the GE "Vio" product mentioned in this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=228916 Then I'd say both those products do not seem to be "light bulb" type products. One is a light bar, the other would appear to be the LED emitters amde for that light bar. At 1" square, I think that the emitters are probably too large for a light bulb type product. The Vio product line looks interesting. They seem to be intended for multiple emitter fixtures like light bars, etc... There's a data sheet here:
http://www.lumination.com/product.php?id=56

There are a *lot* of GE LED threads out on CPF though. So I might not have found the one you meant.

 

[lostsoul01]

That's the one. You are right, that's way too big for this product.

The GE bulbs still sound interesting though. I guess the next time I'm at Sam's I'll have to buy and take one apart.

 

[LEDninja]

The 5mm LED showerhead bulbs are the same as the 9LED 3AAA flashlights at Dollarama. Same LEDs, same build quality.
Stick with power LEDs but they will cost you a lot more ($30-$50). But then a Fenix or Nitecore flashlight will cost a lot more ($70+) than that flashlight at Dollarama.

Do you have a Home depot in your area?

Philips MasterLED R20 Home Depot.
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber
Philips MasterLED R20 Home Hardware.
http://www.homehardware.ca/Products...3653103/name/lamp_led_7w_r20_flood_warm_white

Philips MasterLED A19 Home Depot.
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber
Philips MasterLED A19 Home Hardware.
http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I3653106/name/lamp_led_7w_a19_warm_white
I have comparison beamshots here. Philips MasterLED A19 WW bulbs are rated 155 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=225441&page=2

Sylvania PAR16 High-Power LED Light Bulb Canadian Tire.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...Sylvania+Par-16+High-Power+LED+Light+Bulb.jsp
Sylvania A19 High-Power LED Light Bulb Canadian Tire.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...P/Sylvania+A-19+High-Power+LED+Light+Bulb.jsp

Evolux S EarthLED USA. These are 1000 lumens, about as bright as a 75W incandescent bulb.
http://store.earthled.com/collections/frontpage/products/earthled-evolux-s
Evolux Sh EarthLED USA.
http://store.earthled.com/collections/frontpage/products/new-earthled-evolux-sh
Evolux S Lumia Canada.
http://www.lumiabulbs.com/catalog/item/6937736/6938356.htm

Note price differences between stores!

EDIT
Dave fill in your profile, at least list Canada in location.
If I had not figured out you are from Canada from the stores you mentioned I would probably send you all over the USA.

 

[Bullseye00]

LEDninja, Thank you for the links. I had noticed he Philips R20 at our local Home Depot, but not the A19. The A19 is more what I'm looking for. If none of the local stores stock them, I'll have to take them a printout with the skew that says "In Store Only". The heat sink on those looks plastic, are the heat sinks really plastic?(The GE 7 watt light seems to have a plastic or polastic coated heat sink, and those seem to work.)

re: Evolux - they look nice, but the fan puts me off. Not only pulling in dust, (can you open them up and clean them?) but the long term reliability of a fan that size.

re: GE 2 & 2.5 watt bulb lights at Sam's - The small size of these bulbs would probably indicate a single emitter design.(Definitely the candelabra version, which has a bulb that is primarily clear except for a small translucent globe in the center that looks to be about 3/8".) So they *could* be using a single emitter of the same/similar type as the GE 7 watt light. Which would mean that these GE's are the first power LED bulb light replacement products under $20-30. I can't find any info on these on GE's site or Sam's site.(even using the GE product #, Sam's skew, etc...) I hope that doesn't mean they're a cheap Chinese knockoff passed off as a real GE product that some purchasing agent at Sam's got tricked into buying.

So we'll see how the GE bulbs last. And I will definitely look into the Philips products as well. Thanks again for the advice and the links. And thank you very much for all the test data in the indicated thread. I need to get a 2 or 3 small lamps like those to test with.

- oops, looks like that test data is linked from another thread I was reading.(the tests with the two small "star" based lamps comparing CFL & various bulb LED lights) Great work, lots of useful data.

 

[LEDninja]

The links are from the Canadian website. No good for the US.
Home Depot in the US are selling Designers Edge brand for the A-19. 220 lumens vs 155 for the Philips.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

If you are leery of the fan in the Evolux look at the Zetalux, Luminous Flux: 450 (Cool White), 350 (Warm White) is much brighter than the Philips at 155 lumens. Quite a bit longer though.
http://store.earthled.com/collections/frontpage/products/new-earthled-zetalux-7-watt-led-light-bulb

The Philips heat sinks are metal, quite heavy .

 

[Bullseye00]

Thanks for the links. Do you know who the OEM is for Designers Edge? Or have you had any experience with them?
I'll have to see what my local stores are willing to order, or go with the Zetalux. Do you have any experience with the Zetalux, or just the Philips?

 

[LEDninja]

Just the Philips.

 

[zx7dave]

Home Depot's rival around here (Rona) offers some 12v and AC
LED plug-ins of a different brand (Globe). Anyone know about
these? Are small MRxx spots with a bunch of 5mm LEDs going to
suffer the same fate as the LoA types?



I have a Globe 15W cool LED lamp I bought on eBay...it has a very bluish tint 7000+ range and the ontput is about the same as a 30w traditional bulb...not impressed...the onyl good thing I have to say about it is that it does run cool to the touch.

 

[Bullseye00]

The general consensus seems to be that anything with 5mm LEDs is not going to last very long.