LiIon AA, AAA, etc.

[highlandsun]

I'm sure I posted this before, but can't seem to find the thread now. For all of you folks experimenting with alternate battery supplies, you might like to check out Hypercell in China. They've got a 1650mAh 3.6V AA LiIon rechargable, as well as 3.6V AAA.

Of course, someone's going to need to organize a bulk buy because you're ordering direct from the manufacturer, in lots of 1000. They'll be dirt cheap, considering what you're getting...

 

[highlandsun]

Yuck, that URL is a drag. Try this to get to the Hypercell index page:

http://www.globalsources.com/hypercell.co

Here's the specs on the 3.6V AA:

http://a593.g.akamai.net/f/593/3445/5d/static.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/SPEC/167/K8820321167.htm

 

[Doug S]

Originally posted by Howard Chu:
I'm sure I posted this before, but can't seem to find the thread now. For all of you folks experimenting with alternate battery supplies, you might like to check out Hypercell in China. They've got a 1650mAh 3.6V AA LiIon rechargable, as well as 3.6V AAA.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually not. Their 1650 mAhr cell part # HLC-AA is not an "AA" size cell. It is a 18650 size cell. Their "AA" size cell that they say is rechargeable is rated 700mAhr. In the second link you provide, they identify their "rechargeable" AA as Lithium carbonmonofluoride chemistry which almost certainly is an error. This chemistry has only been used for primary cells. I was not able to find the AAA Li-ion size on their site.

 

[Doug S]

Thanks, x-ray. I'll be damned if I can find that at the link provided.

 

[x-ray]

This is the full URL of the AAA battery page:

http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&design=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&supplier_id=6008807584860&product _id=8821256727&action=GetProduct

 

[Doug S]

Originally posted by Howard Chu:
A 3.6V AAA would make an LED Mag Solitaire a no-brainer, along with various other options.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. I bet the very thought of it makes many here salivate.

 

[Rothrandir]

[No message]

 

[Floating Spots]

Well it is marked No : 00009.
Could these be preproduction units?
I've never recieved batteries with serial numbers before....

 

[highlandsun]

GlobalSources is a reputable clearninghouse for Asian companies that want to market their products abroad. I've ordered a universal remote transmitter thru them from a separate company, and had no problem getting the samples. You can get a lot of gadgets thru them that won't otherwise arrive on our shores for 1-2 years.

(This was an RF multifrequency keyfob transmitter, I programmed it with my car, garage door, and condo security gate signals. Most transmitters on the market at the moment, even the universal ones, can only handle one frequency at a time. This one learned the 295 MHz for my car's keyless entry, the 310 MHz for my garage door, and the bizarro security gate. A nice toy, and all it took was a polite letter on company letterhead.)

In general it costs you nothing to request a sample, but you do have to convince them that you're going to be a "significant customer" to make it worth their while. If you check out their unit pricing it will make your eyes bug out. A keychain remote that costs $1.95 direct from the Chinese factory sells for $45-75 here in the US. I almost thought about going into the import/retail business, seeing how stuff gets marked up like this.

I think there's enough people devouring batteries on this forum alone that we could make a significant purchase. And tho I don't know their pricing, I bet it would make you salivate even more.

 

[highlandsun]

fyi, I've submitted a request for a price quote on the AA and AAA cells.

 

[vcal]

Originally posted by Howard Chu:
fyi, I've submitted a request for a price quote on the AA and AAA cells.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

 

[highlandsun]

On their home page, there are 4 photos and links running down vertically on the right side of the page. Click the last link (4th link), the AAA is there, but no specs are given. The link title is "Rechargeable batteries/cells : 1 of 14".

I haven't requested any samples from them yet, so I don't know what the truth is about their specs. Still, I think it would be worth checking out. A 3.6V AAA would make an LED Mag Solitaire a no-brainer, along with various other options.

 

[Doug S]

Originally posted by Howard Chu:
On their home page, there are 4 photos and links running down vertically on the right side of the page. Click the last link (4th link), the AAA is there, but no specs are given. The link title is "Rechargeable batteries/cells : 1 of 14".

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Been there, did that, I still don't see it.

 

[x-ray]

Here you go:

Specs:

High voltage, Li-ion batteries over 3.6 volts, three times the voltage of Ni-Cd and Ni-MH ones
High energy density
Capacity ratio over 300Wh/L
Weight ratio over 125Wh/kg
Low self-discharge: after fully charged, self-discharge less than 10%
Long cycle life, more than 500 charge/discharge cycles
Good safety control, no metallic lithium in cells, also protected by several safety measures
Wide working temperature range: -20deg. C to 60deg. C
Green power, no metal in cells, friendly to the environment

 

[Glow Bug]

Any word yet???

 

[highlandsun]

no reply to my email yet. I hope that's not a bad sign...

 

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Only problem with Li-Ion cells is their dis/charge problems. Over-discharge kills them, and over-charging turns them into a mini-grenade. There IS a reason no battery maker markets AA/AAA Li-Ions. Most devices that use them have circuitry built in to protect the batteries, but putting that into a cell as small as a AA/AAA would be problematic.

I HAVE seen packs with the circuitry, but I don't know of any manufacturer that makes single D/C/AA/AAA cells with that.

Solitare no-brainer? Yes, but open-circuit voltage is 4.8v, with 3.6 right in the middle. If you over-discharge them enough (once), it becomes an expensive single-use battery.

I'd rather try to convince Arc to offer a 'trade-in' option- give them your Solitare, and they take $5 off the price of an Arc AAA. (not very damned likely, with Mag-Instrument's legendary legal tendancies.)

 

[ledfanfromjuno]

These companies make the batteries with the safety circuits already installed. The HDS one below is not yet made. Also, of all these systems I like the ones that use the camcorder lithium ion battery packs the most because these packs are well established with their own market demand for camcorder video use. The flashlight factory only has to design the flashlight around these packs and not worry about the battery design if using the camcorder batteries. And the consumer can purchase the expensive batteries themselves.

HDS LED Lithium ion prototype:
http://www.hdssystems.com/ActionLight48RLB.htm

Cheap flashlight with 2D size lithium ion circuit protected battery pack:
http://www.aspencer1.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=11061.32

Sony's lithium ion video light for scuba divers:
http://www.onecall.com/PID_16712.htm
sony's battery lithium ion pack for the light:
http://www.onecall.com/PID_14765.htm
If this sony flashlight could be made to dissipate the heat of the 5watt luxeons and a more durable lens than the glass lens be substituted this flahlight would be great.

Canon's 10 watt lithium ion light:
http://ww3.onecall.com/PID_1627.htm
battery for light above:
http://www.lowballvideo.com/kore/catalog/Pro_Video_Products/Camcorders/Camcorder_Accessories/Batteries_and_Chargers/Canon/BP-945/product.html

I think that rather than desing a new battery pack and a new flashlight it makes more sense to mod an existing technology. I think the most promising is Sony's scuba video light that uses sony's lithium ion camcorder battery pack.

 

[Alan]

Originally posted by Howard Chu:
GlobalSources is a reputable clearninghouse for Asian companies that want to market their products abroad. I've ordered a universal remote transmitter thru them from a separate company, and had no problem getting the samples. You can get a lot of gadgets thru them that won't otherwise arrive on our shores for 1-2 years.

(This was an RF multifrequency keyfob transmitter, I programmed it with my car, garage door, and condo security gate signals. Most transmitters on the market at the moment, even the universal ones, can only handle one frequency at a time. This one learned the 295 MHz for my car's keyless entry, the 310 MHz for my garage door, and the bizarro security gate. A nice toy, and all it took was a polite letter on company letterhead.)

In general it costs you nothing to request a sample, but you do have to convince them that you're going to be a "significant customer" to make it worth their while. If you check out their unit pricing it will make your eyes bug out. A keychain remote that costs $1.95 direct from the Chinese factory sells for $45-75 here in the US. I almost thought about going into the import/retail business, seeing how stuff gets marked up like this.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's why more and more manufacturers asks for special (high) sample fee especially from suspicious email address. <sigh>

Alan

 

[highlandsun]

This may all be a moot point since they've ignored my inquiries thus far...

Originally posted by PsycoBob[Q2]:
Only problem with Li-Ion cells is their dis/charge problems. Over-discharge kills them, and over-charging turns them into a mini-grenade. There IS a reason no battery maker markets AA/AAA Li-Ions. Most devices that use them have circuitry built in to protect the batteries, but putting that into a cell as small as a AA/AAA would be problematic.

I HAVE seen packs with the circuitry, but I don't know of any manufacturer that makes single D/C/AA/AAA cells with that.

Solitare no-brainer? Yes, but open-circuit voltage is 4.8v, with 3.6 right in the middle. If you over-discharge them enough (once), it becomes an expensive single-use battery.

I'd rather try to convince Arc to offer a 'trade-in' option- give them your Solitare, and they take $5 off the price of an Arc AAA. (not very damned likely, with Mag-Instrument's legendary legal tendancies.)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I realize that this kind of thing can't safely be sold to the general public, but we're not the general public, we're tinkerers and designers etc...

For the charging issue, I think the Maha 777-PlusII charger will probably do fine. For overdischarge, a 3.3V Zener diode would provide a safe cutoff. Not sure where you'd find space to cram one into a Solitaire, but it's just an idea.