Lion stumbling block

[degarb]

The lack of cr123 and 18650 holders is main reason I haven't switched.

There are other reasons, but this is the main.

other reasons: cost, charger that can do a pack, availability on demand, no 15 minute charger for them, lack of capacity advancement like nimh.

But really lack of holders to build a pack, (parallel packs prefered) is main reason.

 

[Chodes]

I think LIONs are very cost effective.
Consider an AW 18650: can replace 3 AA Eneloops and will have a bit more capacity for similar or less cost.
As far as chargers , several options for good chargers around $50 that can charge LIONs,LIPO,Nimh and NiCd cells so can charge every cell you are likely to want to charge for several years. They can balance up to 4 LIONs also.
Holders - for 123s generally they will be used in a small light so no holder necessary. For multiple cells , usually better options than 123s anyway.
FM holders that I know of are 3x17670,6x17670,4x14670,8x14670 and the Elephant 4x,8x,12x 18650. I have a Mdocod 2 x 18650 holder for my Surefire M6 as alternative to the 6 x CR123 Surefire holder as well as FM 3x17670 holder.
So the way I see it ,cost,holders and chargers all covered.
I like the low discharge characteristics of LIONs too.

So it's all good for LIONs as I see it , should only get better with the new cells AW has talked about.

 

[degarb]

LIONs,LIPO,Nimh and NiCd cells so can charge every cell you are likely to want to charge for several years. They can balance up to 4 LIONs also.
Holders - for 123s generally they will be used in a small light so no holder necessary. For multiple cells , usually better options than 123s anyway.
FM holders that I know of are 3x17670,6x17670,4x14670,8x14670 and the Elephant 4x,8x,12x 18650. I have a Mdocod 2 x 18650 holder for my Surefire M6 as alternative to the 6 x CR123 Surefire holder as well as FM 3x17670 holder.
So the way I see it ,cost,holders and chargers all covered.
I like the low discharge characteristics of LIONs too.

You lost me on holders. Url of place that sells them?

I think I have one bookmark of a $80 charger than can charge any parallel pack using alligator clip. I am guessing you refer to dx on buying, comparing $8 for 3 AA verses one 18650. I am sure cost may be cycles to be considered.

 

[Chodes]

You lost me on holders. Url of place that sells them?

I think I have one bookmark of a $80 charger than can charge any parallel pack using alligator clip. I am guessing you refer to dx on buying, comparing $8 for 3 AA verses one 18650. I am sure cost may be cycles to be considered.

4 AA eneloops cost me $20. 8 pack a bit cheaper. So 3 cost $12-15.
1 AW 18650 is $12 - that was the basis for my cost comparison.
FM - Fivemega and Mdocod are both forum members.
Charger - imax b6 for example. 1-6 LION cells , up to 15 Nimh/Nicd.
Reviews are very good except for reports that the balancing function is not spot on , but easily fixed with some 1% resistors. I can get them for $60 AUS (that's abouit $50 US)

Charger:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5548

 

[bob_ninja]

4 AA eneloops cost me $20. 8 pack a bit cheaper. ....

I ordered most of my Eneloops from TD for about $10/4 pack

 

[Chodes]

I ordered most of my Eneloops from TD for about $10/4 pack

Who or where is TD?
International shipping to Australia , as well as exchange rate means that prices I listed are hard to beat.

 

[Gator762]

Who or where is TD?
International shipping to Australia , as well as exchange rate means that prices I listed are hard to beat.

Thomas Distributing. Otherwise, Rayovac has had $5 off 4pk coupons and decent rebates on the Hybrids too making them very cheap. There must be some LSD cells for sale in B&M stores in Australia, no?

 

[CM]

You can buy Li-Ion (they're not Lion) cells with tabs on them here:

http://www.batteryspace.com/

They also sell the protection circuit and smart chargers for multi-cell packs. I don't know what you mean by "availability on demand". As far as fast chargers, you're just going to have to accept that the current crop of Li-Ion technology is not designed for 15 minute charge nor would I expect them to be able to do it in the near future. Think about it. If you have a 2.5AH cell and you want to charge it in 15 minutes, that's 10A of current. Take a pack and multiply that amount by the number of cells. Look at it a different way. Packs can hold typically around 40-50 Watt-hours of energy. You need 200W to charge in 15 minutes and this doesn't even take into account inefficiencies. Li-Ion charge differently than NiMH so that's another reason you don't see "15 minute" chargers.

As far as lack of capacity advancement, there's a tradeoff. Self-discharge plagues a lot of "super duper high capacity" NiMH. I've thrown all that 2600mAH crap away for 2000mAH Eneloops that hold their charge for at least a couple of weeks.

 

[degarb]

You can buy Li-Ion (they're not Lion) cells with tabs on them here:

http://www.batteryspace.com/....
As far as lack of capacity advancement, there's a tradeoff. Self-discharge plagues a lot of "super duper high capacity" NiMH. I've thrown all that 2600mAH crap away for 2000mAH Eneloops that hold their charge for at least a couple of weeks.

Thanks, guys.

This brings up a side question about newer Nimh. I see http://www.thomasdistributingshop.c...Pk-FREE-4-Cell-Battery-Holder_p_147-1356.html and the newer 2450's at Wallymart claim %40 longer self discharge over 2005 models. Any opinions?

Now if I wanted to make own tabs on some 123a's I have laying about, where locally can I buy a conductive epoxy?

 

[Chodes]

Thomas Distributing. Otherwise, Rayovac has had $5 off 4pk coupons and decent rebates on the Hybrids too making them very cheap. There must be some LSD cells for sale in B&M stores in Australia, no?

I don't know what a B&M store is. Bondage and Masochism?
Prices I stated for Eneloops is accurate. Best I have heard of is $35 for 8.

 

[Black Rose]

I don't know what a B&M store is.

Brick & Mortar - ones you walk into and buy things.

 

[Chodes]

Brick & Mortar - ones you walk into and buy things.

I see, that makes more sense. Saves me a trip to the seedy end of town

We have Tandys (Radio Shack). I think best they do is $46 for 8 Eneloops when on special!
Most B&M stores just keep Energizers and Duracells.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I see, that makes more sense. Saves me a trip to the seedy end of town

We have Tandys (Radio Shack). I think best they do is $46 for 8 Eneloops when on special!
Most B&M stores just keep Energizers and Duracells.

You do a search on the internet for Australia for cheaper Eneloops, and listen to fellow Aussies who know the ins and outs of finding NiMh's or Li-Ions. You will prevail given time.

Bill

 

[Chodes]

You do a search on the internet for Australia for cheaper Eneloops, and listen to fellow Aussies who know the ins and outs of finding NiMh's or Li-Ions. You will prevail given time.

Bill

I don't mean to be argumentative , but I have done that. That's where I heard about the "special" price at Tandys.
It's also where I found my cheapest source - $35 for 8 Eneloops:

http://www.extremetorches.com.au/?gclid=COT1xMaglpQCFSQqagodHzLTtA

If any Aussies have info for reliable cheaper source I'd appreciate the information. Shipping cost is low there and I received my order the next day , got email advising it was shipped a couple of hours after I ordered
so full marks there.

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Extreme Torches offers the following Shipping options (within Australia).
Free Express Post shipping for all orders over $100.
Flat $5.00 Express Post charge for orders under $100.[/FONT]


Anyway , don't want to hijack the thread. I'm really happy with LIONs, I think that should be obvious by now

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I don't mean to be argumentative , but I have done that. That's where I heard about the "special" price at Tandys.
It's also where I found my cheapest source - $35 for 8 Eneloops:

http://www.extremetorches.com.au/?gclid=COT1xMaglpQCFSQqagodHzLTtA

If any Aussies have info for reliable cheaper source I'd appreciate the information. Shipping cost is low there and I received my order the next day , got email advising it was shipped a couple of hours after I ordered
so full marks there.

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Extreme Torches offers the following Shipping options (within Australia).
Free Express Post shipping for all orders over $100.
Flat $5.00 Express Post charge for orders under $100.[/FONT]


Anyway , don't want to hijack the thread. I'm really happy with LIONs, I think that should be obvious by now

I'm sorry, I miss posted. I meant to reply to OP.

Bill