Lithium AA suddenly dead??

[Robocop]

I often check my stored batteries for problems and voltage in an attempt to use up all of my older stock first. Tonight I was checking all of my AA Lithium cells and found one that showed zero voltage...by zero I mean it actually read 0.00 on my meter. I believe this battery has never been used and stored with others from the same package for maybe 2 years. I know it was not a meter problem as it continued to read other batteries and each time it showed zero on this one battery.

Is it possible or even common for a lithium AA to simply run down to 0.00 Volts in storage? Do Lithium AA cells have some type of protection built in to completely shut down a cell if dropped or maybe develope some other problem? I have only seen this reading once with a cell designed to have a tripped circuit for low voltage cut off (protected rechargeable) and even my very dead normal cells will show some type of reading.

There is no outside damage to the cell and nothing leaking and it was stored in a box with other cells in a dry room. It is just weird to me and I have no problem with the other cells and plan to use them but again just wondering if it is normal for a lithium AA to suddenly go to zero volts with no signs of external problem.

Also I know it was pretty sudden as I test all my batteries every few months and know that this one cell showed at least a 1.7V charge a few months back. I am weird like that as I store all of my cells together by voltage with the higher ones being used after the lower voltage ones. This one cell was stored together with 6 other cells that all had at least 1.7V and that is how I know this one cell was normal a few months back.

 

[TorchBoy]

I guess it's possible for any battery to develop an internal short, but isn't there some deal with lithium AAs having to be woken up after long-term storage? Or does cleaning the terminals make any difference?

 

[Robocop]

I am not sure about long term storage and have no idea as to cleaning the terminals. The battery has no outside markings, damage or anything else to make me believe it was something I did to make it suddenly show no voltage at all. The weird thing is that I have maybe 20 other Lithium AA cells and each and every one is fine with the same amount of storage.

As far as this one brand I have I believe 7 other cells all from the same lot that show normal voltage...this cell in question also showed normal voltage just a few short months past. I am simply curious as it would seem the cell would have to vent or show some other signs of rapidly losing all of its charge and again it looks brand new on the outside.

 

[Mr Happy]

Try putting it in series with a good cell and connect a bulb to it. See if that wakes it up, or whether it is open circuit inside.

 

[Vikas Sontakke]

Call Energizer and tell them.

- Vikas

 

[hopkins]

as its too dangerous for children to experiment with these
AA lithium primaries be safe and throw this dead cell away.
( Always into an approved waste receptacle for batteries at the
front door of Walmart for example)

 

[Robocop]

Well I am not sure if I really wish to experiment with this cell however I am curious as to where the entire charge went to. On any of my used cells I am always able to register a small charge left even if the cell will not power a light. I believe the lowest reading I have got was something like 0.68V however at least it did show something. This cell acts as if it never had any charge or if it somehow had a dis-connect circuit or other protection.

The cell is not energizer brand and is one of the older clones. I have used many of this brand with no problems and actually plan to use the others I have as well so again I do not feel it is a danger but it is just something I have never seen for lithium cells with no circuits for protection. I may try the charger just to check but again I am not sure if that would be safe as I have seen disasters from screwing with these lithium cells.

 

[Mr Happy]

Aw. No sense of adventure. When I was a kid, I used to delight in any experiment that could produce fire, flame or bangs.

[Edit: I speak in jest. I am not suggesting any attempt to do anything dangerous with batteries, nor to use them for any purpose other than they are intended.]

It is possible that an internal protection circuit has gone open circuit, or maybe the cell has developed an internal passivation layer that has insulated one of the electrodes.

If you are unhappy about doing anything with the cell, you should simply dispose of it, of course.

On the other hand, if you do any experiments on it outside and keep a reasonable distance, I doubt you are going to come to any harm. It's rather fascinating to imagine what could have happened to it.

 

[gadget_lover]

I'm pretty sure the forum rules call for NOT urging forum members to do potentially unsafe things. If they don't say that they should.

Please remember there are kids reading this forum. They don't always have the judgment necessary to avoid temptation. Would you consider re-wording your post?

Thanks.


On Topic: To get 0.00 volts on a digital meter is most unusual. Does it show open with an ohmmeter or shorted?


Daniel

 

[Robocop]

Hi Gadget nice to hear from you as always....Not sure as to what you mean by open or shorted as I do not know how to check for that.

I agree that a 0.00 reading is unusual especially for a lithium cell that had over 1.7V showing a few months prior to this posting. I would not be so curious if it had slowly lost its charge however this was a pretty quick decline to absolutely zero voltage and with no load placed on the cell.

I could understand if the cell was stored inside a light or other device but again it was safe and sound packed with several other cells so there was no drain on the cell.

The battery is one of the old Battery Station brand and I have used maybe 15 of these thus far with no problems. I still have a few and have no problem with the brand as I have always had good luck with this maker so again I will use the ones I have remaining without worry.

I actually did consider slowly taking the cell apart but again decided not to as it could be dangerous and even if I were able to do it without harming myself I would not know what to look for anyway. This may simply be a mystery to me and searching older posts shows no information on this topic. I know this cell is intended as a disposable lithium and as such has no need for a protection circuit as it is not intended to be recharged. I also know there was no damage to the cell nor any load placed on it prior to this event. It simply seems the cell turned itself off somehow and I am still searching old posts and the internet trying to figure out the cause.

 

[Mr Happy]

I have read of lithium primaries containing a protection device to guard against excessively rapid discharge. I don't know if it is actually a circuit as such, though. Maybe just a temperature sensitive device or a fusible link.

My test would be like this. Place the cell in series with a known good one, and briefly connect a flashlight bulb. If the bulb stays out, it probably means the bad cell is open circuit inside and will not work again. If the bulb comes on, it could mean that the cell was temporarily inactivated and the short burst of current through it might have resurrected it. In the event the bulb did come on, you could once more test the open circuit voltage and see if it is back above zero.

But since these cells have been reported to ignite, you should most likely dispose of the cell whatever outcome any tests produce.

 

[hopkins]

:wave:

 

[Robocop]

Ok I have a light that can use 4-AA batteries to power a luxeon and I put the dead AA battery in the middle between the other known good batteries. I powered the switch and got a very small amount of light that I could almost not detect but it was a little light none the less.

I quickly shut it off and then measured the cell. It had no heat build up or other signs of trouble but again it was only under load for maybe 5 seconds. It now strangely shows 0.01V on my meter so it somehow gained 0.01V in this test....weird and I have no idea as to what is going on with this battery.

 

[Mr Happy]

Well, interesting. It does sound like it could be the reported "passivation layer" that sometimes forms inside lithium cells in long storage. It is like an insulating layer that builds up over one of the electrodes and prevents current from flowing.

Here is a link that talks about it: http://www.electrochempower.com/Support/TechnicalInformation/Passivation.htm

 

[TorchBoy]

At just 0.01V it sounds possible that the other cells slightly charged it, but that passivation phenomenon is what I thought I remembered, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what you have.

I suggest hitting with a really heavy load, as the article mentions. If it works, I'd expect the passivation layer would collapse (or whatever the terminology is) suddenly and the cell will start working again as per normal. Can you measure the voltage across that cell as you're using it?

 

[gadget_lover]

If you put it in a 4 cell light and got only a little output, the light is not shorted.

The fact that is now reads .01v probably means that it's now reverse charged. To check this use the voltmeter. There will be a minus sign when the leads are connected to the wrong ends of the battery. Start with the black voltmeter probe on the bottom of a good battery, the red on the top and look for a minus sign. If you see the minus sign, reverse the leads (black to top, red to bottom) and measure again. The minus should dissapear. When the minus sign is gone you have the correct "polarity".

Repeat this with the bad cell, using the correct polarity as determined above. If you see the minus sign the battery has taken a reverse charge from being the the pack. The battery is un salvagable and should be thrown out.

All voltmeters had one lead marked +, and you could just look for that but you might not notice where the minus sign is on your display so I described the long way.

Daniel

 

[MorePower]

Passivation of the lithium surface in a Li-FeS2 cell would not cause zero volt OCV readings. It would, if anything, cause reduced CCV readings under initial load until the passivation "burned off." Also, the other cells from the same lot, under the same storage conditions, should exhibit similar symptoms if that were the case.

The PTC protection devices in lithium primary cells trip when excessive current is drawn from the cells, such as when it undergoes an external short. This heats the PTC, causing its resistance to increase dramatically, thus protecting the cell. When the current drops, the PTC cools off and "resets", thus allowing the cell to discharge normally again.

I think that it's likely that a low level internal short occurred and discharged the cell. Throw it out.

 

[nikon]

I had the same thing happen with two Battery Station AA lithiums recently. Each had been one of a pair in an occasionally used low power flashlight. The batteries they were paired up with are fine.