Lithium Cells

[wadus]

So I just bought a Ra Twisty 85 TR help: I can't stop myself from buying more lights!!!) and I am wondering about CR123's with the rapidly approaching summer heat. Is it safe to leave this light, or one of my CR123 Romisen lights in my car during the summer or will they explode?

Right now I am using Duracell CR123 primaries as I have about 20 or so left. After I get down to maybe 4 to be used for backups, I will start using rechargeable, protected cells as my main energy source. I think AW protected cells are the preferred choice among CPF'ers but please let me know which would be the safest route. Also, is there any danger in leaving these protected RCR123 cells in a hot car?

One more question: I just bought a D10 R2 as well and some Sanyo Eneloops to go in it and was wondering about the danger of these as well. Is there a danger of these NiMH Eneloops or some Energizer Lithium AA or AAA cells exploding or damaging anything from being left in a hot car in the sun?

As you can probably tell, I am sorta paranoid after reading all the warnings about these batteries. I just want to be safe and not damage anything or, God forbid, anyone else if it is totally preventable. Thanks in advance! :twothumbs

 

[StarHalo]

CR123s handle heat well, but you still have to take precautions for a car light; lithium primaries are good up to 140F, which is not hard for the areas of your car's interior directly exposed to sunlight to reach and exceed on a hot summer day. The key is to store the light in the coolest/darkest places, namely the glovebox or the trunk, where temps will max out at around 120F.

NiMHs do not handle heat as well as lithiums, and the regular/non-LSD variety can have serious self discharge problems in high heat storage. Stick to lithium primaries only for car duty.

 

[crazyk4952]

My Surefire CR123A batteries have a warning printed on them to not expose to temperatures above 212 degrees F (100 degrees C).

I was a little surprised when I read this since most people say that they should not be exposed to temps above 140 degrees F. Maybe the Surefire cells are worth the extra money?!

 

[StarHalo]

My Surefire CR123A batteries have a warning printed on them to not expose to temperatures above 212 degrees F (100 degrees C).

Maybe the Surefire cells are worth the extra money?!

Surefires are rebranded Panasonic cells, but either way they are a quality brand which are indeed worth the extra money. Energizers and Duracells are also money well spent.

While they could withstand a moment at 212F, I wouldn't want to be anywhere nearby if they were exposed for more than that moment, especially not if they were in a sealed metal container, like a flashlight..

 

[wadus]

Okay thanks for the replies guys. I guess I will only keep my Romisen RC-G2 in my glovebox with an alkaline in it for emergencies during the summer then. I would rather not burn my new car to the ground and I will probably have my D10 on me anyway.

Any idea what temperature the Eneloops can handle? I looked on the packaging and it just says not to expose them to heat; it doesn't specify at what temperature they could fail.

 

[StarHalo]

I guess I will only keep my Romisen RC-G2 in my glovebox with an alkaline in it for emergencies during the summer then.

Alkalines are only rated to 120F, and will usually leak/burst when they fail, I strongly recommend against them for any sort of storage/emergency light. Energizer Lithiums are the only AA cells that can withstand car interior temperatures.

Any idea what temperature the Eneloops can handle? I looked on the packaging and it just says not to expose them to heat; it doesn't specify at what temperature they could fail.

Eneloops are rated to 120F, the same as other NiMHs, as far as I know. But the more you increase the temperature, the faster they self-discharge. A fully-charged Eneloop stored in summer temperatures daily will be down to roughly 50% in a couple of months.

 

[Bones]

...
Any idea what temperature the Eneloops can handle? I looked on the packaging and it just says not to expose them to heat; it doesn't specify at what temperature they could fail.

As usual, it seems that the Eneloop exceed expectations in this area as well.

MattChase left a set in a car in Texas for a year, and they still performed admirably when retrieved:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post2522838

Your light will also stay much cooler stored under the seat than it will in the glove box. Just make sure it's placed under the seat on the opposite side of the exhaust system.

If your going to use primary cells, the experts are virtually unanimous that lithiums are a much better choice than alkalines. They last much longer in storage, they perform much better in extreme temperatures, and they are not near as prone to leaking and not only leaving you in the dark, but destroying your light as well.

 

[Mikellen]

I have a 2 cell (CR123A) Inova X0 flashlight that I leave in my wife's car for emergency/standby use. The flashlight is inside the center compartment which is covered. Since we live in south Florida and summer is approaching soon, I'm wondering if the batteries would be safe to be stored in this situation. The batteries are the Surefire brand and I checked the label and it does state a temperature limit of 212 degrees.

I'd appreciate any opinions and advise about this.

Thanks.

 

[StarHalo]

I have no idea why Surefire labels their 123s that way, but it should read 140F. That being said, any area of your car interior that's exposed to direct sunlight on a hot summer day will have no problem exceeding 140F, so the key is to store your light in one of the darkest places on your car, namely the glove box or trunk; temps there almost never reach 120F.

It should be noted that Surefire/(rebranded Panasonic) cells are of good quality, but should there be a flaw in one cell, you bump up the odds of a venting event dramatically by using two cells (one cell has a problem, the second cell tries to balance it, huge amounts of energy get moved, etc.) Ideally, a car/emergency light should be a single lithium cell (123 or AA "Energier Lithium"/L91) model for safety.

 

[PetaBread]

 

[Mikellen]

Thanks StarHalo for the explanation. Just to clarify, having a 2 Cr123A battery flashlight for emergency/standby use is more dangerous due to possible venting by the 2 cells trying to balance each others energy.
So its recommended for safety reasons to have a 1 CR123A battery flashlight or use AA lithium (L91) for emergency/standby use.

Just to make sure I understand this correctly; In regards to the AA lithiums (L91s), does having a flashlight that uses 2 AA lithium L91s have the same venting issue as 2 Cr123A batteries, or is this dangerous venting issue only applicable to a flashlight using 2 Cr123A batteries?

Thanks.

 

[Black Rose]

The L91s use a different chemistry and I believe you do not have to worry about the venting issue that CR123A primaries have.

 

[2manybikes]

My car has reached 160 f a few times. My friends truck has reached 188F. I would not store CR123A's in a car.

Single battery CR123A lights can vent too. It has happened to me. And others.

 

[Ecko]

Surefires are rebranded Panasonic cells,

Not that I'm doubting you but, there was an argument about this on another site recently. One side said they were made in the USA per the label and the other said they were rebranded Chinese batteries.

How can you tell they're rebranded?

 

[Black Rose]

US military and LEO agencies have rules that the products such as this be Made in USA.
If Surefire cells were Chinese rebrands, they would not be used by those agencies.

There are only 1 or possibly 2 producers of CR123A lithium cells in North America, but Panasonic/Panasonic OEM is the main one.

Panasonic produced CR123A cells generally have a stated capacity of 1550 mAh

Known rebranded Panasonic cells are: Surefire, Streamlight, and Rayovac, in addition to Panasonic's own cells.

Duracell CR123A cells also have a stated capacity of 1550 mAh, so chances are pretty good they are also rebranded Panasonic cells.

Energizer CR123A cells seem to have a capacity rating of 1500 mAh, so not sure if they make their own or buy them.

 

[Mikellen]

According to Black Rose's post, the AA L91 batteries use a different chemistry than CR123A batteries. And thank you Black Rose for that information.
But does anyone know for sure if AA L91 batteries are safer than Cr123As batteries for a flashlight designated for emergency/standby use in an automobile?

I just want to use the safest type of batteries that will be stored in a flashlight that will be in my wife's car. And if the L91s are safer, does it matter safety wise if I use a 2 cell or 1 cell flashlight.

Thank you.

 

[Black Rose]

I have a 2xAA Rayovac Sportsman Xtreme with L91s in my glove box, along with 4 spare L91s.

I'm going to do a search, because I know someone more knowledgable about these than me had commented about the safety factor of the L91s when used in pairs (compared to CR123As)

EDIT: Aha!!!! I found it. I asked the same question a while ago and StarHalo came to the rescue

 

[Oddjob]

According to Black Rose's post, the AA L91 batteries use a different chemistry than CR123A batteries. And thank you Black Rose for that information.
But does anyone know for sure if AA L91 batteries are safer than Cr123As batteries for a flashlight designated for emergency/standby use in an automobile?

I just want to use the safest type of batteries that will be stored in a flashlight that will be in my wife's car. And if the L91s are safer, does it matter safety wise if I use a 2 cell or 1 cell flashlight.

Thank you.

If you are going to leave the light and not use it for a while I think a single cell lithium light with spares would be the safest option. You can always store the batteries separate from the light but then the light is not ready to go when needed.

 

[Mikellen]

Thanks Black Rose for the link. I've decided just to be on the safe side, I will remove the Inova X0 that uses 2 Cr123As from my wife's car, and replace it with a single AA celled flashlight and use an L91 battery. I'll keep a spare L91 in a ziplock bag and store both the flashlight (with L91) and spare L91 inside the covered center compartment.

This gives me a great excuse to go purchase another flashlight!

Thanks!

Edit: After I posted my response I noticed Oddjob's response. Hey that's exactly what I was thinking! (Except for the part of keeping
the L91 separate from the flashlight).

 

[2manybikes]

Thanks Black Rose for the link. I've decided just to be on the safe side, I will remove the Inova X0 that uses 2 Cr123As from my wife's car, and replace it with a single AA celled flashlight and use an L91 battery. I'll keep a spare L91 in a ziplock bag and store both the flashlight (with L91) and spare L91 inside the covered center compartment.

This gives me a great excuse to go purchase another flashlight!

Thanks!

Edit: After I posted my response I noticed Oddjob's response. Hey that's exactly what I was thinking! (Except for the part of keeping
the L91 separate from the flashlight).

If you live in a place that has cold winters and hot summers, there can be small amounts of condensation inside a flashlight as the temperature changes. A plastic body light is better if you might leave the light in the car all year. Small amounts of condensation can cause electrolysis with an aluminum body light. Or just a current path to the body. Meaning a miniscule current drain, not giving you anywhere near the claimed shelf life. Or even causing a dead battery. Keeping the battery out of the light is best but that is very inconvenient.
Replace the battery every year, check the light every six months.
The covered center console box is a good idea, the enclosed air space will slow down the temperature changes around the light, possibly being a big help reducing condensation. A bad place would be the door pockets next to the outside of the car. Faster temp change there. I lost a Maglite to that once. A small box or a plastic bag with air space around the light is a good idea. That's probably why oddjob suggested keeping the battery away from the light. He's right.
You can look up the temp ratings, hazards, chemistry, etc. for any battery on the manufacturers web pages, including the L91. http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/temperat.pdf