LODCE - Why am I using 10440's?

[Pontiaker]

Comparing a gun to battery? Ok, they are both tools.You need to handle them in a safe manner. In this case the gun is probably safer then the battery but the battery is still not a big deal, just pay attention to what your doing with it, them.... I have lots of both and have never had a problem with either!

 

[mudman cj]

I don't want to get involved in all of the extraneous 'discussion' that is filling this thread, but instead I just want to add a point in favor of using Li-ion cells. I like being able to remove the cell and quickly estimate the amount of remaining power by checking the cell voltage. That aside, I will add that I have discharged AW 10440 cells at up to 4C in my Extreme III, where 2C is the recommended discharge rate for Li-ion cells. I expounded upon a theory as to why it may be safer to discharge 10440 cells at rates greater than 2C in this thread. Still, I don't recommend mouth-holding your LODCE while running on turbo from a 10440.

 

[Youfoundnemo]

OK Ill try to share my experiances, I have never owned a LOD and dont have any 10440's but I do have a bunch of lithium ion cells (Li-Co and Li-Mn) and Ive never had any problems out of em, Ive run em at too high a discharge rate (close to 4C) and Ive left em on the charger overnight (many many many times) ive dropped on concrete the whole 9 yards. Well I also have guns and i can say Im WAY more carefull with my firearms than with my batteries, dropped a .22 once and guess what? It went boom, big suprise there right now tell me whats more dangerous something that goes boom when droped or something that hits the ground and then just sets there?

 

[Benson]

AMEN! Iam so tired of all the doom and gloom about batteries.

Has anyone actually been hurt by one, maybe other than some minor first degree hand burns?

Yes, definitely. I haven't gone looking; some of the members who've been here longer, or those who are more motivated to search, would have a better idea of the range of injuries so far. but there has been blood from lens shrapnel, and I believe there were some more serious injuries involving a light exploding in someone's hand. You might start here.

If this is in your hand when something happens, the first thing your going to do is drop the light and step away....Its not a bomb, most lights are so overbuilt they handle the pressure and the o-rings go letting gasses escape....

It is a bomb, sometimes -- the lens shrapnel incident mentioned above happened after the user dropped the light on the ground. The nasty in-light accidents, though, seem to be more from Lithium primaries being reverse charged. Lithium-ion (specifically LiCo, the most common, and dangerous, of the Li-ion chemistries in use) tend to have more safety issues when charging -- although an explosion or fire on the charger may be caused by bad treatment in the light. (But maybe this contrast is simply because Lithium batteries are used more, or used more carelessly, and because they never have issues on the charger; I certainly won't presume that Li-ions are less dangerous in the light, given abuse.)

Honestly, though, the issues with 10440s seem to me rather overrated by some, because 10440s are the safest common unprotected Li-ion cells: they have the least stored energy, they have the least thermal resistance to the flashlight, and they live in the smallest, and hence typically strongest, hosts. They also, being easy to abuse, are probably the single most abused Li-ion cell size around, and yet I've heard of no "incidents" (not counting death after 10s of cycles) involving them. (Like I said, though, I haven't really looked.)

I certainly don't think a warning to those who may be abusing 10440s unaware is out of line, but once they know what they're doing, and accept whatever risks they're taking, I say just let them do it, and I see absolutely nothing more "inherently dangerous" with a 10440 than any other Li-ion, if adequate protection is provided externally (same as any other unprotected cell).

 

[Marduke]

How you treat your own property is your own business, but giving out BAD advice to someone who may be naive enough to actually follow it is simply wrong.

 

[tsask]

Good point to consider.

The 10440-powered L0D impressed me when I first tried it. However, in practice, I invariably switch to the low mode (or partially shield the light with my fingers) because the light is too bright.

I keep telling myself that the extra brightness is a good thing "just in case". Meanwhile, 99 times out of a hundred, I'd be better off running Eneloops. :shrug:

I'm mainly using rechargables now. I cut back on my 10440 use because I need longer runtime for EDC.

 

[electric sheep]

Should not have mentioned our appalling gun laws but they came about because of ignorance. Hysteria is easy and risk management is about enjoying life as safely as possible without making it hell through constant fear the unlikely will happen. We could all get hit by a car tomorrow or struck by lightning ect. ect. Batteries provide us with high lumen and longer run times and we must exercise caution to prevent problems, the benefits are worth the small risk that something outside reasoned educated control can cover.

 

[EntropyQ3]

I use 10440s in my LumaPower Avenger - but then it provides 1 hour of runtime on high using 10440, so there is no undue strain on the cell and the light output is reasonably well regulated. But I would prefer it with a low voltage cut-off.

I do not use 10440s in any other AAA lights since the discharge rate exceed the rating of the cells, the LED assembly gets quite hot, and the runtime is dismal (all at high) - you punish the cells and LED both, getting way beyond the point of diminishing returns.

There is a Li-chemistry that AW sells under the "IMR" moniker. It performs extremely well under high load, and is inherently stable. It would be eminently suitable for AAA lights both because of the electrical properties and because there is no protected LiCo 10440 available, and I've petitioned him to supply it. If you'd like to buy some, let him know.