Looking for suggestions

[PhilV]

Hate to be brief, but I'm on my way to work, but I'm looking for some opinions based on experience and I wanted time for some good feedback.

I'm Looking for 2 lights right now, and have no idea what paths to pursue. I'm a new LEO, Former Navy Electronics Technician, gadget freak, and a seriously potential flash-a-holic.

I need an EDC Tactical light. Something small enough for EDC on my Duty belt. Weight is a concern. Tactical night shooting, flashlight in off hand tactical defense (survivability), rechargeable.. and bright enough to blind someone in broad daylight.


The second light.. rechargeable thrower. I need to be able to make out palmed knife/gun at 100 yards, with enough spill to know what his buddies are doing.. simultaneously burning out their retina's. Preferably a belt-hangable c-d type light. Something along the lines of a dominator without the hefty price tag.


Retail and modified are both valid options, I'm handy enough with a soldering iron (supposing I can find it). My biggest concern is matching my criteria for the least amount of cash, with supreme reliability (holy grail?).

I'll check back after my shift. I've been reading cpf for a while, but still a lot of material to digest. So I appreciate any help getting pointed in the right direction(s).

 

[Gunner12]

For the C-D sized thrower, how about making yourself a Aspheric maglite mod or a high power Incan mod like the ROP(Roar or Pelican)?

Do you need cradle charging?

Or if you want stock(and don't requirer cradle charging), the Dereelight DBS is a one of the best throwing stock lights(Run it on 18650 and with the Digital Module for max output, 1.2 amp vs 1 amp to the LED on high).

To bind someone in broad day light, you will probably need 500+ lumens and you will need at least something 2 C sized.

You could buy a cheap light, install it with a forward clickie or make it into a twistie and pot(Or whatever you call covering the thing with epoxy) the electronic. Then it will be cheap(cheap base that come with LED, and a driver), and tough(Potted electronic). Could be under $30.

:welcome:

 

[Kiessling]

It sounds like you want a lot of power in the two lights. Lots of power means less runtime and more heat.
Any light is a compromise of some sort, and with what you are describing you will not have a light with long burn times unless you go multilevel, which then means you'll have an interface that is more complicated than on/off, which might not be optimal in your tactical environment.

Do you know how much light you'd need?
For the thrower ... is 500lm (SF M6 power) enough?
For the belt light ... P60 or P61 equivalent? Or brighter?

What about start-up time? I suppose you'd need instant-on, which then means HID is out. Because there are some niche and bright as well as affordfable HID lights out there.

What price range are you targeting?

Sorry for the questions, but the more facts we know, the better the suggestions.

bernie

 

[RyanA]

Sf G2 or G3, both are lightweight and can be upgraded w rechargable cells an HO lamps.
Mag 85, or ROP mod or for high output you can find parts on CPF or buy an 85 pre-built from Juan at black bear flashlights.com (I'm sure you've seen adds at some point).
I use both a g3 w ho and a mag 85 from juan at work.
I'm considering a 6pd because the extra offensive capability might be nice if I've already got the light out and someone becomes confrontational.

 

[PhilV]

Quick check in..

the 6pd sounds interesting.. maybe with a higher output module.

I should adjust some of my pre-req's.. lightweight in a EDC tactical light is kinda redundant, I don't think any tactical handheld is going to be too heavy. On the thrower, HID might be a valid option if it isn't ungodly slow.. not clear on how long it should take to fire one up, but 1-2 seconds isn't out of the question. I love the dominator's reviews, and the M6 looks great, but I'm hesitant to drop $400-$500 of my own cash on a light that'll roll around in the squad-car. A mag85 or 74 has caught my eye in my reading. I currently have a 6cell-D mag.. but I have yet to see any drop-ins for it, nor have I read about any mods for them. (not positive I want that baseball bat hanging off my belt, even if only occasionally) I missed the dang Lowe's sale by my own mistake, had about 4 lights set aside for myself and didn't pick them up in time.

I'd love to keep both lights under $100 each. But I realize the value of a quality build, and you generally get what you pay for. So with convincing arguement I would likely go over that.

On the cradle, I'd like the thrower to cradle in the car. There's currently an OLD c-cell streamlight rechargable, with a great full circle cradle.. pretty much just set the butt and drop it in, it seats itself.

Still wide open. Going to look closer at Juan's 85's after my shift. 500 lumens? how expensive would that be in a tactical?

Thanks for the responses, keep'em coming!

 

[Gunner12]

There is a Terralux Drop-in that will work in a 6-D maglite. There are also many other mods of the 6D(Simplest high power being the ROP mod, 6 NiMh D batteries and a Pelican Big-D bulb).

500 Lumens in a tactical light(Smaller then 2C), with Multi LEDs, you might be looking at 10-40 minutes runtime depending on the size of you light and the batteries used.

Depending on which HID you buy, some have instant on(just not at max output) and some take 10 seconds to start up. You might want to look at Microfire HID lights. 8% off coupon at Fenix store is "CPF8".

What other lights do you currently have? There might be a Drop-in that would work(I'm thinking P60 module type, look at this thread).

 

[mdocod]

and bright enough to blind someone in broad daylight.

um.... to really EFFECTIVELY blind someone who's eyes are daylight adjusted would require some major lumens concentrated into a tight beam on their eyes. IMO you would need at least a ~75W class incan (probably maglight modification), or a 24W+ HID, or something with at least 7 or so cree LEDs driven at an amp each. Potentially you could get by with less total power if you are talking a very strong focusing system like an aspheric lens on an LED and you can reliably get the beam into their eyes.

 

[divine]

A 20mW laser should do the trick.

 

[Kiessling]

AE Light and Brightstar make good (I have heard that, don't have them myself) 24W Li-Ion rechargeable HIDs in various sizes.

Then there's the smaller handheld HIDs like the Wolf Eyes Boxer Series and Microfire Warrior Series, but I'd be a bit hesitant to call them tactical. While I do not have a Boxer, I have a Warrior, and despite the name I doubt it would survive any serious encounter.

For the standard tactical light have a look at the SF 6PL with 85 lumens and good runtime and a simple on/off interface. I'd generally go LED here as those are way more efficient than incan nowadays and more robust, also.


If you absolutely must have incan, there's the SF A2 that gives you a LED low beam with long runtime. Very useful.

Two other SF lights worth looking at are the U2 and L1.

Then, there are a bazillion more light out there that might suit your needs. As I don't know them all, I can't say much. The Gladius is one worth mentioning, but it has a more complex UI.

bernie

 

[bones_708]

I would have three favorites for the belt carry. Streamlight stinger or strion, and surefire 8NX. While you are just getting started in both your career and new hobby :twothumbs I would start with tough simple lights that work great and those fit the bill. Later as you know more about both you will be able to find other lights if they might fit you needs better and those three lights are solid backups or can easily be sold to other officers if to no one else. The larger is more complicated because of the criteria you indicated. Bottom line there are no good reasonably priced lights, or even real expensive ones, that can do what you request. 100 yards is a long throw so the light can't have to much spill, and few if any modded lights can really be described as supremely reliable, and reasonable run time? Forget about it. All this for less than what I would consider the closest production light? Maybe an upgraded mag charger setup or just a SL-35x may be the closest choice.

 

[RyanA]

Quick check in..

the 6pd sounds interesting.. maybe with a higher output module.

I should adjust some of my pre-req's.. lightweight in a EDC tactical light is kinda redundant, I don't think any tactical handheld is going to be too heavy. On the thrower, HID might be a valid option if it isn't ungodly slow.. not clear on how long it should take to fire one up, but 1-2 seconds isn't out of the question. I love the dominator's reviews, and the M6 looks great, but I'm hesitant to drop $400-$500 of my own cash on a light that'll roll around in the squad-car. A mag85 or 74 has caught my eye in my reading. I currently have a 6cell-D mag.. but I have yet to see any drop-ins for it, nor have I read about any mods for them. (not positive I want that baseball bat hanging off my belt, even if only occasionally) I missed the dang Lowe's sale by my own mistake, had about 4 lights set aside for myself and didn't pick them up in time.

I'd love to keep both lights under $100 each. But I realize the value of a quality build, and you generally get what you pay for. So with convincing arguement I would likely go over that.

On the cradle, I'd like the thrower to cradle in the car. There's currently an OLD c-cell streamlight rechargable, with a great full circle cradle.. pretty much just set the butt and drop it in, it seats itself.

Still wide open. Going to look closer at Juan's 85's after my shift. 500 lumens? how expensive would that be in a tactical?

Thanks for the responses, keep'em coming!

6d is an easy rop cantidate, plus with D cell Nimh it should run for hours.
Batteries and charger will probably get a bit pricey. The fastest d cell charger I've read about 60 far is the Maha 808 which does it in about 6 hours, so while you're sleeping basicly. It's availible from Thomas Distributing for $87.97. then you'll need 6 d nimh batteries for probably 7-10 bucks a piece, so lets say 8, so thats $48 for batteries, Then you need an aluminum reflector. I'm actually ordering one of these 10.5mm mop dual functions by five mega for my brothers 6d rop build, $33 dollars with shiping
Then you need a glass lens and a pelican 3854 lamp set (high and low, both included) @ $7.99 for the lamp and $5.50 for the lens from lighthound.com So about $185, or about half the price of a m6 or 10x with a good deal more output and runtime
While you're at lighthound check these out, pretty nifty. Haven't tried one yet, but I need to order some stuff anyways, so maybe soon.

 

[RyanA]

Gene Malkoff also has some interesting solutions for SF's and Mags.

 

[ACMarina]

I'm with mdocod - why would you need to blind somebody in broad daylight?? In my experience with LE and Security, if you need to disorient somebody, there are better LTL options available in a daylight encounter, though they may vary based on departmental regulations..

Pepper spray, tasers, etc all come to find..

 

[PhilV]

I'm with mdocod - why would you need to blind somebody in broad daylight?? In my experience with LE and Security, if you need to disorient somebody, there are better LTL options available in a daylight encounter, though they may vary based on departmental regulations..

Pepper spray, tasers, etc all come to find..

"Blind in broad daylight" was mostly a figure of speech, as before this thread I didn't really think it was possible with a small handheld.. But I was trying to convey that I want a powerful visual disorienter. If I've come down to this option, chances are they are trying to do harm to me, and I intend to shoot them, so I want to be sure that I can severely reduce their chances at accuracy. I'm in Warrants so my primary function is arrests of people that didn't want to be found, at night to top it off.

6d is an easy rop cantidate, plus with D cell Nimh it should run for hours.

There is a Terralux Drop-in that will work in a 6-D maglite. There are also many other mods of the 6D(Simplest high power being the ROP mod, 6 NiMh D batteries and a Pelican Big-D bulb).

Ok, I have to admit, I'm a little excited now at the thought of turning my 6d into a RoP. I Actually already have a Duratrax Digital Pulse Charger, so that eliminates a huge chunk of the cost. Just need to build a cradle, and get the bulb/reflector/lens/batteries. The Terralux drop-in looks interesting, but is 150 lumens with the mag reflector going to suit my needs? Thanks Gunner and Ryan for some great links, still digging through them.

I would have three favorites for the belt carry. Streamlight stinger or strion, and surefire 8NX.

The strion specifically was the first light I seriously considered. It still is in contention, I'm just concerned that it's a little light (pun) on the lumens/cp. I like that it has a cradle though, one less thing to hassle with at the end of shift.

AE Light and Brightstar make good (I have heard that, don't have them myself) 24W Li-Ion rechargeable HIDs in various sizes.
Then there's the smaller handheld HIDs like the Wolf Eyes Boxer Series and Microfire Warrior Series,

I'll have a look at AE and Brightstar. The Microfire Terminator III T503 is a nifty looking light.. 3x cr123's for 500+ lumens.. How does that light actually perform? $300 is a little steep, but it's a very interesting light. Wonder if it comes in rechargeable.


So, it sounds like I can do the 6cell D ROP mod for at or under $100 and have as much light as I could get from $400 worth of other products. Sounds like a winner for throw/spotting.

Still pretty hung on the tactical light. I like the charger and size of the strion. I don't mind a multi-level tactical, as long as the switching is unobtrusive to instant-availability of the tactical level. The Dereelight looks interesting. As does the 6PD with a P61. Nothing seems to have come too close to the microfire T503's 500 lumens though. I'm not adverse to a small 2c light, it just needs to sit comfortably on a duty belt. I spend a lot of time in-car, so hangers and massive head lights aren't ideal. My intended position for it is rear left hip, so I'll be laying on it seated. Unless it's tiny enough for belt-front.

 

[PhilV]

Alright, I think I've narrowed my choices down to the Streamlight Strion, The BlackHawk Gladius, and the SF 6p(d). I'm leaning heavily towards the strion, because it's natively rechargeable (cradled even), and default higher output (116 lumens?). Proprietary batteries and no apparent drop-in upgrades weigh against the Strion.. as opposed to the p-61 upgrade almost doubling the 6pd's output.. though I think I'd rather use one from Lumens Factory, they claim 200 lumens and longer runtimes..

The Gladius (which I unfortunatly just looked up tonight) seems to have some solid LEO features. Default lumens seem right between the strion and 6p, but adding the strobe feature, maybe the Gladius makes better use of it's lumens for disorienting light (this is my primary consideration, ability to disorient targets).. top that with low level modes for battery conservation and discreet light..

Is the Strion really that much brighter than the 6p? are these realized numbers, or is the advertising misleading? Even with the additional p-61 upgrade, the raw numbers are neck and neck.

I think I'm talking myself out of the SF. Oddly enough it only seems to have the lowest entry price going for it, along with being available at Lowe's. And of course the coolfactor of Surefire written on it.

So..
Strion with 116 lumens, rechargeable, ac/dc cradle, smaller.. ~$100

Gladius with 90 lumens, cr123's, multi-mode (esp. strobe), better grip.. ~$180

how expensive would rechargeables for the gladius be (or can it be)? Any other considerations? Any better lights? I wanted to stay around $100, but the strobe feature has my curiosity piqued.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Well, I just caught this thread; there are so many choices here it is taking me a minute to organize my thoughts.

Hmmm okay for a thrower, a 6D ROP is the easiest to build and using NiMh D's and will be pretty reliable. Just remember standard NiMh's self discharge so you'll have to keep up the maintenance on the batteries. There are smaller alternatives, most with lesser runtime, more complicated battery packs or Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries. A step above the ROP is a 5761 bulb setup but still can run on 6 nimh batteries.
An LED thrower like a Dereelight DBS is also pretty nice. There are a couple options, but I'd say you'd want to use just a simple 1-mode. An HID thrower is still the king of the hill though. I'd say they are definitely worth the $300 or so.

As for a tactical use light, do you have a preference for incandescent vs LED? The pelican 7060 "LAPD" light is a bit large but has good reviews for the most part. It has a charging cradle I'm pretty sure. The only drawback is it is large.
A Surefire 6P with better Lumens Factory bulbs or a Cree dropin will be good. That 200 lumens bulb will eat batteries like there's no tomorrow. Expect only 30-ish minutes of useful output per battery set.
Wolf Eyes makes brighter 6P-like lights that can actually use rechargeable batteries for around $100, unlike most Surefire rechargibles which will pillage the wallet. DereeLight CL1H (6P-like) also can use rechargeables and they have some of the best LED modules available. Durability is untested though.
The Gladius claimed output I've found isn't actually the real output. It is a good light but next to modern LEDs its not very impressive. If you mod it with an SSC then it'll be much nicer.
I have no real experience or preference with the Strion.

Most of the above will do the job well. I'd lean toward the SF myself. Strobe in your situation probably can be useful if you've trained to use it. IMO, talk to the people you're working with before pursuing the strobe. You can mess up your buddies with it too.

For an actual blind people in broad daylight flashlight, a multi emitter LED will do pretty well actually. There are some cheap ones at Kai's and DX but they're a bit large. The Peak First Responder is better quality ~$200 but also a bit large. My favorite big lumens, smaller light is my Elektrolumens Firelion.
And there are some insane mods out there that even put my best stuff to shame. When you're talking higher end flashlights you definitely get what you pay for.

I hope I'm not making things difficult, though I do seem to be very good at it.
:welcome:

 

[PhilV]

I hope I'm not making things difficult, though I do seem to be very good at it.
:welcome:

hehe, I'm quite certain I've placed enough complication on myself that anyone providing so much useful information could only improve the situation..

I really appreciate your input. Of course I was seeing the p4 Seoul upgrade for the gladius and naturally curious.. the banner I saw here at cpf claimed the same runtimes at 60% more output (batteries upgraded too I think).. I'm not afraid of doing the mod myself if the end result will be a light that suits all my needs. I hate to drop so much cash on a light.. that essentially needs better light.. but that seems to be the way it works around here. Besides, the upgrade cost is pretty insignificant to the purchase price.

 

[PhilV]

Does anyone know how the LED Stinger compares to the Gladius? Mostly asking about a comparison of the strobe functions, but overall observations as well. Naturally I like the fit and controls of the gladius above the stinger LED, but if the strobes are similarly effective, the price may be the leverage point. Being able to use the Gladius' strobe instantly from the tail switch, rather than double-clicking seems like it might be a big deal.

One may assume I'll spend another $20-$30 on upgrading the emitters. Nether light is bright enough stock, I don't believe.

Also, I'm seeing the gladius for a LOT less than the $249 that Galls and GTDist.com want, like $178 from http://www.productwizard.com/blackhawk-night-illumination-tools.html
That's with free shipping. This address came up in a google product search, the other 2 were $180's.. Are there Gladius knock-off's? Or are galls and GT just not in on the deal?

 

[jbosman1013]

I am not a LEO but IMO a strobe feature on a tatical light is useless and in complete darkness will be just as effective on you as the person you are pointing it at. Go for the 6PD with a BOG or malkoff drop-in and that should cover 90% of your needs and give you another LTL option. For the remaining 10% a mag ROP or SF M6 should be more than enough to give the bad guy second degree burns.

 

[bones_708]

You can tell the strion is brighter than the 6p and it does throw a bit farther. It also is just a bit smaller and, as you said, rechargeable. The 6p with the p61 would most probably be brighter, but that doesn't indicate that the throw would be any farther so the difference may not matter depending on what you want out of the light. Also be careful about using lumen comparisons from different companies. They all use different methods and they are not the same from one company to the next. Surefire underrates if anything, while other companies overate or use bulb rather than torch lumen's.