LunaSol 20 advisory & update !!

[McGizmo]

Hi guys,
On the eve of a planned launch of a wave of LunaSol 20's, I have received some feedback from an existing LunaSol 20 owner which causes me to cancel the wave.

I could list a chain of events and evolution of design and any number of reasons/ excuses but they don't alter the reality.

I now believe the window seal of the LunaSol 20 with the components in use is suspect and compromised. I say this because one of you had some water get in and it should not have. I don't think the design itself is flawed but it is certainly pushing it. The windows I have been using in the build are smaller in diameter than ideal and although I had successful tests in submerging some lights using these windows, I now believe it is necessary that I use a larger diameter window; one that I do not have nor have I ordered yet. :thumbsdow

When the design evolved to what it did, I already had windows in process and I realized that the changes I made in the diameter of the reflector and its bore left the window smaller in diameter than I would have liked. The sapphire windows are not trivial in cost and worse, there is a 6-8 week lead time or more for them. I thought I could "get by" with what I had on hand and left it to some testing which seemed to give me the OK. Nope! My bad. Definitely my bad. This was a bad judgment call on my part.

Now I say that I believe a larger diameter window will solve the potential problem in the window seal but I need to confirm this for certain. When I received word of a seal failure, I checked my assortment of mineral glass crystals I have on hand and fortunately found one that is of the diameter and thickness I believe needs to be used here. The existing windows are 20.2 mm x2 mm and this larger size is 20.5mm x 2mm. I have installed it in a light and I plan to give it quite a work out in and out of the water and abuse it beyond what I would consider reasonable.

If a new larger diameter window is a viable solution then I want to know this ASAP and get some ordered. I am also hopeful that the vendor will be receptive to my plight and perhaps with a premium offered, expedite them and cut the lead time down.

I think I have identified a solution here but that is not a given. What is a given is the fact that there is a problem.

What of you who have LunaSol 20's now? Will yours leak? I can't believe the majority would because I did do some testing but they certainly have the potential and that is not right. Sorry.

Right off the bat, I will take any of these back from any of you with a full refund and I will cover the shipping back to me. If you elect to hold on until I get a better idea of what fix will make this right, that's up to you. If a larger window does solve the problem then we may have a few ways of rectifying the situation. There is nothing I can do about a quick replacement of the sapphire though.

OK, I need to do some further investigation and thinking and testing here. I wanted to alert those of you who do have lights that they have a potential flaw in them and that I will figure out a way to address it. I also wanted to let those of you waiting for the next wave know that it is way off now.

At this point, I am much more interested in identifying a solution than I am in talking about and discussing the problem. :sigh:

 

[Drywolf]

Well I guess I can stop hitting refresh for a while. My gal will be soo happy that she can have a larger time slice...Thank you for the update!!

 

[Rico801]

Thanks for the update. What a bummer! I was really looking forward to this wave. I can't wait until you get these squared away. My web browser can finally take a break.

 

[Carpe Diem]

Per usual, Don, I commend you for your exemplary ethics.

Best wishes to you, my friend!

:thumbsup:

 

[precisionworks]

A bad day on my Harley is better than a good day in my car ... and

My LunaSol 20, though it may be imperfect, refuses to leave my pocket. If an issue arises in the future, I'll advise. Until then, you can't have it back:thumbsup:

Thanks for the heads up, but so far this is a non issue for me.

 

[yaesumofo]

Don thanks for being open about this Lesser builders would do their best to conceal an issue like this. Really thank you for letting us know and working so hard for a fix. I completly understand the need to sometimes work under with compromise being part of the challenge of a project. It happens. Sometimes it turns out OK and sometimes it doesn't.
One of my My Lunasol 20's has been in the water several times..Sofar No water has entered the light. I will not be bringing either of my Lunasol 20's into the drink with me until a solution which insures that water will not enter the light happens.

In the end I am not in the least bit worried about this since if the light does not spend time in water there will not be a problem. I doubt that rain will ever cause a problem.
I will certainly NOT be returning my Lunasol's for a refund. Nope I use them too often and like them too much.
Don none of us expect anything but the best from you. You set the bar higher each time. I hate to say it but greatness is a double edged sword.
Thank you for your great effort.
Out of curiosity what if any are the changes to this next batch of Lunasol's are there? (Other than the front glass issue)
Yaesumofo

 

[dmdrewitt]

Per usual, Don, I commend you for your exemplary ethics.

Best wishes to you, my friend!

:thumbsup:

+1 here

 

[BigHonu]

Sorry to bum some of you out, but I was the one who had some leakage with my LS20. I feel pretty bad as my example has shut down production for a bit. Hopefully Don's supplier can expedite some of the new windows to get production flowing again.

Brian

 

[starfiretoo]

Was wondering if you were diving with it or something. I'm not hard on my lights but wonder if the lens outer O-ring got jarred, pinched or cut or if it was one of the other O-rings? Perhaps the lens wasn't centered right? Anyway, hope it's just an isolated problem. :thumbsup:

Sorry to bum some of you out, but I was the one who had some leakage with my LS20. I feel pretty bad as my example has shut down production for a bit. Hopefully Don's supplier can expedite some of the new windows to get production flowing again.

Brian

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

Sorry to bum some of you out, but I was the one who had some leakage with my LS20. I feel pretty bad as my example has shut down production for a bit. Hopefully Don's supplier can expedite some of the new windows to get production flowing again.

Brian

Dont apologize BigHonu! In the long run, you probably saved alot of time and trouble!

 

[KingSmono]

Per usual, Don, I commend you for your exemplary ethics.

Best wishes to you, my friend!

:thumbsup:

Agreed! You sir, are a rare breed! :thumbsup:

 

[BigHonu]

Was wondering if you were diving with it or something. I'm not hard on my lights but wonder if the lens outer O-ring got jarred, pinched or cut or if it was one of the other O-rings? Perhaps the lens wasn't centered right? Anyway, hope it's just an isolated problem. :thumbsup:

SF2,

After taking a look at my light, I believe the window was a hair off center. I did not take the o-ring and window assembly apart since receiving the light, though have accidentally dropped it once or twice. I agree with Don that the slightly larger window looks to be the solution, but he needs to finish up with the testing.

 

[yaesumofo]

How did you discover that the window was off center?
Yaesumofo

SF2,

After taking a look at my light, I believe the window was a hair off center. I did not take the o-ring and window assembly apart since receiving the light, though have accidentally dropped it once or twice. I agree with Don that the slightly larger window looks to be the solution, but he needs to finish up with the testing.

 

[BigHonu]

yaesumofo,

After taking off the window, I noticed a slight crease in the o-ring which looked like it was caused by the edge of the window pressing into it. The crease was localized to only one part of the o-ring.

Brian

 

[yaesumofo]

I get it. I was confused when you said "I did not take the o-ring and window assembly apart since receiving the light".
I did not understand how you could see an off center window without removing the retaining Spring.

For a while I switched the retaining O-Ring with a GITD ring. I did not notice the window being in anything other than normal positioning.

I changed it back some time ago and the light has been under water for long periods of time (30 - 45 Minutes) several times since.
As I said in another post, now that there is a potential issue I my light will not enter the drink with me until a confirmed fix is at hand.
Thanks for discovering the problem.
I am not surprised by Don's response. This is just the kind of guy he is. Rare for one thing.
Yaesumofo

yaesumofo,

After taking off the window, I noticed a slight crease in the o-ring which looked like it was caused by the edge of the window pressing into it. The crease was localized to only one part of the o-ring.

Brian

 

[McGizmo]

Hi guys,
I am really glad Brian brought this to my attention when he did. The old "stitch in time saves nine" deal I think applies. I left the "test" light with larger OD window in a pitcher of water over night and in a little while I will take it out in the ocean to subject it to a number of descents and ascents. The LunaSol is not a dive light in any sense of the word and doesn't play one on TV.

However, I don't accept the present configuration of components or what happened to Brian and that is going to be fixed. To provide for a more robust and forgiving window seal, either the outside head diameter would need to be increased or I would need to reduce the diameter of the reflector with Nichia ring.

I went into the design knowing I was going to hold to the 1" diameter of the head. After evaluating an early prototype reflector that had a smaller outside diameter with the Nichias partially blocked by the window seal I decided that the flood beam was too restricted with light loss and opted to encroach on the optimal seal geometry to gain an improvement on the flood beam. I increased the bore diameter but as mentioned above, didn't go the extra step and order up a new run of larger diameter windows. The smaller windows can work as tests showed. Unfortunately they can also fail as Brian found out. :green:

This is a very frustrating set back for me and possibly some of you but that's the way it is. I have an additional 100 Ti sets of the LunaSol 20 about to be shipped to me and I am committed to this light. I don't know how objective I can be when it comes to comparing my lights to those of others but for me, a low flood is of primary importance and the LunaSol has no peers at present, regardless of how subjectively or objectively I look at it. I just want to get these completed and out to those of you who share in my appreciation and desire for such a light.

I suppose there is a silver lining here as this planed wave of 25 LunaSol 20's would have had NG drivers on the Osram Dragon just like the first wave and these lights are for primary CR123 battery use only. With this set back, I may be in a position to use a buck/boost driver on the Osram opening the light up to use with R123 cells as well. In the mean time, I will build out 25 SunDrops using the NG converters and I need to test these but it looks like the higher Vf of the Nichia will allow for the SunDrop to be driven by R123 as well as primaries.

 

[Hodsta]

Per usual, Don, I commend you for your exemplary ethics.

Best wishes to you, my friend!

:thumbsup:

+2 No surprises here:twothumbs

 

[bf1]

Don,
You must have graduated top of your class in the college of business.
Regards,
Barry

 

[Drywolf]

I suppose there is a silver lining here as this planed wave of 25 LunaSol 20's would have had NG drivers on the Osram Dragon just like the first wave and these lights are for primary CR123 battery use only. With this set back, I may be in a position to use a buck/boost driver on the Osram opening the light up to use with R123 cells as well. In the mean time, I will build out 25 SunDrops using the NG converters and I need to test these but it looks like the higher Vf of the Nichia will allow for the SunDrop to be driven by R123 as well as primaries.

That's great on both accounts!

:twothumbs

 

[The Coach]

Thanks for the heads up Don, but like yaesumofo, my light doesn't spend any time in the water. When I go to NYC, I just use the bridge instead of swimming. :devil: