Luxeon clone

[waion]

(Pls tell me if this is discussed somewhere in CPF.)
This is the latest China-made HD 3W Luxeon CLONE:

As you can see in the above pic, it's really alike to the Luxeon in it's configeration and apperance. It's claimed to be a 3W white LED using a heat sink very similar to the Luxeon but without any bin code and part number printed on it. Although not clearly pictured, you may still see that the dome of the LED is not as water-clear as the real Luxeon. The LED inside the dome is rather the same in appearance as the Luxeon.

I've epoxied it on a heat sink and direct-driven it with my old 2200mAH NiMH AA batteries that were fully charged two days ago with minimal use thereafter. The brightness to my naked eye is somewhere in between the Lux I and III. I measured it with my multi-meter and here're the readings:

V measured across the legs of the LED: 3.37V
I measured: 510mA (the actual reading should be slightly higher due to the resistance in my poor meter. proved by the slightly increase in brightness of the LED when I short-circuited the meter)
P= 3.37V * 051A = 1.718W - surely not a 3W LED.

The colour of this sample is surprisingly white (close to the X1-binned to my naked eye). I think one really can't tell it's a clone from the beam colour alone.

I've turned it on continually for a week (not continuourly, of course /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and it seems not to have any decline in brightness and any other problems to my naked eye. I think by the time Lumiled has produced LED of higher efficiency, these China-made LED would be improved to have the same quality of the present Lux III...

 

[tylerdurden]

How much and where can I get a few for testing?

 

[NewBie]

I suppose since they are from china, they are a nickle a pop?

 

[kongfuchicken]

These look like emitters soldered on star pcbs.
Someone here used to sell star pcbs.

 

[NYLYTE]

For comparison I offer a photo of one of the mounted emitters In the two MXDL 3 Watt flashlights I recently purchased on Ebay.

The PCB reads Kerui in script. In the photo linked above the emitter is wired such that the script is obscured. If desired I will attempt other angles and attempts at closeups. The emitter looks like a Luxeon but I doubt it. The detail on the leads is pretty good in the photo, any comments? The other emitter is wired through the other hole and thus shows the complete "Kerui" name in script.

[EDITED]

Here is the next pic, the emitter on each is low dome but I can't seem to get a decent side shot with this autofocus camera. Lighting is from the other MXDL 3 Watt with close to dead batteries, no flash.

 

[nexro]

Waion, where can I get these? Would like to test it too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[NewBie]

Since LumiLEDs makes a huge amount of Luxeons in Malayasia as I believe I recall, I wonder if these could be production rejects sold on the black market, and place on "star" boards...

 

[nexro]

Newbie,
Perhaps you are right. Unfortunately, I can't find anyone here that's selling rejected luxeons /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Emanuel]

They are far from being a nickle a pop, the price is just a little lower than the Luxeon. And no, they are not rejected Luxeons and they are not new on the market. It was just a matter of time until other manufacturers will produce compatible products and I told this to the fellows at Lumileds 3 years ago. This technology emerged from Korea, or at least they were the first to produce it a couple of years ago. The Chinese followed only recently. The star MCPCB looks like an immitation of the Luxeon but my guess this is only for easier marketing as replacement. The Far East manufacturers offer many arrays with lots of available configurations and of course lamps and flashlights. So far we tested several samples, none was able to match the intensity of the Luxeon. It will take some time and eventually it will, but right now it seems like the old story from almost 8 years ago, when HP, much before becoming Lumileds, released the so called second generation of LEDs; the Sun Power series with 2 and 3 chips in the super flux package. The other manufacturers immediately followed by releasing the super flux with the same chip they took from the 5mm LED and all the happy "manufacturers" of LED products claimed to use the "latest technology" of "second generation".
Right now, when you buy a Far East manufactured flashlight, advertised to use Luxeon, in most cases you will get the power LED visually compatible and now also PCB compatible with the original.
Again, I don't want to be misunderstood, the Chinese product is good and some manufacturers offer high quality, it has a little less output when compared to the original and I am more than happy following this development. Luxeon is too high in price because of two reasons - they were until now playing solo on the market and second, Future is keeping the price high again as sole distributors. Before this distributorship started, I was sourcing Luxeon from Lumileds at much lower prices than Future offered.
It is the time to bring them down from the tree back to the ground and if it will be the Chinese products to do that I simply like that

 

[NewBie]

Actually, I have quite a few Far East manufactured flashlights that say made in China.

The Dorcy 1W headlamp and the Costco Luxeon are two examples.

They both have LumiLEDs Stars in them, complete with part number and binning info on the back.

Yes, Future gets a nice markup.

 

[evan9162]

I'd like to see genuine Luxeons (I) down to the $3-4 range. I think you can get them from future at about $6 right now, but I bet they still make a decent markup on those.

I'd also be interested in a couple for testing/comparison.

 

[Emanuel]

3 years ago, I visited the Lumileds European office in Millano after objecting working with Future. We had a great meeting followed by a great pasta and agreement to purchase LS1 at prices around $3. This was 3 YEARS AGO!!!. Our obligation as manufacturers was to purchase $20K per year which is not much in any term. 3 months later, Future objected this agreement and we were back in their hands (and prices). Not being of the kind of manufacturers who like the idea of being kept by them (in this case at very sensitive locations /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif )we simply went to other alternatives.
This is when I told Lumileds (see my previous posting) that it is only a matter of time until some competition will raise. Less than an year later, the Korean clones appeared and my guess is that they will match the intensities during 2005.

The $3 and even less is possible also in small quantities right now if you ask.

Based on this, the Future's markup is more than decent....it is very INDECENT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I guess this is how they look at us right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif

Do I sound like I don't like Future????

 

[nexro]

Emanuel, you are not the only one that's not happy with Future.

 

[cy]

emanuel, thanks for the insight on dealing with lumineds & future.

 

[tylerdurden]

So, where can you get the clones?? I'm mostly interested in torture-testing them at this point.

 

[gadget_lover]

Is that sort of like my saying "Hey emanual, I'd like to buy some of your product. I want them at 3% over your material + labor cost."

Yeah, it's not reasonable for me to dictate the price to emanual for his product just as it's not reasonable for us to condem Future for their pricing.

I would like to see the prices come down. I don't want to see cheap imitations. With cheap clones comes the need to verify every 'luxeon' that we buy to avoid the inevitable short lived LEDs or low quality devices that will appear along with the good ones.

A note on business models; when you have a monopoly that you know will end in 3 years you do NOT lower your prices. You instead charge as much as possible to accumulate the cash you will need to sustain you through the dry spell that occurs at the start of competition. After the monopoly ends is when you cut your prices. If you can not compete at that time you at least can liquidate and enjoy your profits.

Daniel

 

[Dr_Joe]

Does anybody know if the Nuwai lights are running true stars or clones ?

 

[4sevens]

[ QUOTE ]
kongfuchicken said:
These look like emitters soldered on star pcbs.
Someone here used to sell star pcbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

and poorly soldered at that.

 

[waion]

I've asked for the help of LEDmusemum for the testing (Craig hasn't replied yet). I will only sell these LED if their performance is satisfactory. I will be selling them at about $7.5/ pc.

 

[waion]

Just got the 2nd bunch of luxeon star clone for sale.