Just curious for some comments regarding why you would choose one over the other. It may sound like a no-brainer, but there doesn't seem to be a huge amount more runtime with the Luxeons and I still see all the xenons at the top of the light output charts. Is the lifetime of a xenon bulb that bad to where you would choose luxeon?
Luxeon vs. Xenon
- Thread starter jbrett14
- Start date
BlindedByTheLite
Flashlight Enthusiast
yeah, i hate replacing bulbs, and i hate yellowing incans.. and incans just can't beat my Elektrolumens lights or my UK eLED for useful runtime!
JasonC8301
Flashlight Enthusiast
Relying on one of the CPF mottos, "Buy them both."
I have a Pelican M6 LED sitting right in front of me next to my Tigerlight and 2C modded Mag (KPR112, 3XCR123, Orange Peel PMR.)
My Tigerlight runs for an hour (well 1.1 hour advertised) before I stick it into the charger. I have not used my modded 2C often because of the fragile nature of the RS KPR112 bulb being driven at 9 volts.
The lights do have their places though.
I regard my Tigerlight as my main security guard job duty light. The Pelican M6 LED has replaced my Streamlight Scorpion for a back-up due to the fact that I get more run time out of it at the cost of less output (4 hours bright run time for the PM6 LED and 1 hour from Scorpion.) I also do not have to fear about a popped bulb on my Pelican M6 LED as the case with my Scorpion (never had a bulb flash on me from the Scorpion but had the bulb pop into the reflector rendering the light useless.)
Most of my lights are incandescent due to the output of them. The Pelican M6 LED output is nice and WHITE but doesn't produce the sheer blindness my Tigerlight or modded 2C. I do have a fair selection of 5mm LED's around though for low light situations (Inova 24/7, Ultra G, Arc AAA, Ray-o-vac headlamp with 3 X 5mm LED's in and the hybrid Twin task 1L.)
Anyway back to topic, the main reason I got the Pelican M6 LED is because I read how everyone raves how white it is and it seems to throw like my SF E2e but my E2e puts out that wall of light, so the Sf E2e is my EDC (due to size and light output.)
Luxeons still have a ways to go before they can fully replace incandescents.
I have a Pelican M6 LED sitting right in front of me next to my Tigerlight and 2C modded Mag (KPR112, 3XCR123, Orange Peel PMR.)
My Tigerlight runs for an hour (well 1.1 hour advertised) before I stick it into the charger. I have not used my modded 2C often because of the fragile nature of the RS KPR112 bulb being driven at 9 volts.
The lights do have their places though.
I regard my Tigerlight as my main security guard job duty light. The Pelican M6 LED has replaced my Streamlight Scorpion for a back-up due to the fact that I get more run time out of it at the cost of less output (4 hours bright run time for the PM6 LED and 1 hour from Scorpion.) I also do not have to fear about a popped bulb on my Pelican M6 LED as the case with my Scorpion (never had a bulb flash on me from the Scorpion but had the bulb pop into the reflector rendering the light useless.)
Most of my lights are incandescent due to the output of them. The Pelican M6 LED output is nice and WHITE but doesn't produce the sheer blindness my Tigerlight or modded 2C. I do have a fair selection of 5mm LED's around though for low light situations (Inova 24/7, Ultra G, Arc AAA, Ray-o-vac headlamp with 3 X 5mm LED's in and the hybrid Twin task 1L.)
Anyway back to topic, the main reason I got the Pelican M6 LED is because I read how everyone raves how white it is and it seems to throw like my SF E2e but my E2e puts out that wall of light, so the Sf E2e is my EDC (due to size and light output.)
Luxeons still have a ways to go before they can fully replace incandescents.
Ocelot
Newly Enlightened
From a different point of view, LEDs have it all over Xenon when you want a single light that can cover almost all the bases.
A 5W Luxeon can be dimmed down to very low levels to save batteries and greatly extend run time, or be switched up to 5W for that really bright light. LEDs have made a huge difference in the caving world, and probably in the climbing world soon.
If your main concern is the throw, or daylight brightness, then sheer wattage is what you want and LEDs aren't there yet.
Scott
A 5W Luxeon can be dimmed down to very low levels to save batteries and greatly extend run time, or be switched up to 5W for that really bright light. LEDs have made a huge difference in the caving world, and probably in the climbing world soon.
If your main concern is the throw, or daylight brightness, then sheer wattage is what you want and LEDs aren't there yet.
Scott
richpalm
Banned
Incans for me = when I need sheer lumens, throw, wow factor and force option when necessary. Mostly Surefires and a Tigerlight.
Luxeons = 99 to 100% of routine tasks. (around house, walking, etc.) The Pelican reflector is excellent but the LED's still have a way to go before they throw like incans, however superior they are in color rendition.
5MM Nichias = yours truly has shot out night vision and poor dim light vision, making them too dim for my purposes, except a trip to the head during the night. And I don't like the blue tints. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Lux III = Best thing that has happened for me with LED's. Perfect color. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
So my answer is that I carry both-an M3 for power and a 2-cell McLux PR for backup plus an ARC LSH.
Rich
Luxeons = 99 to 100% of routine tasks. (around house, walking, etc.) The Pelican reflector is excellent but the LED's still have a way to go before they throw like incans, however superior they are in color rendition.
5MM Nichias = yours truly has shot out night vision and poor dim light vision, making them too dim for my purposes, except a trip to the head during the night. And I don't like the blue tints. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Lux III = Best thing that has happened for me with LED's. Perfect color. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
So my answer is that I carry both-an M3 for power and a 2-cell McLux PR for backup plus an ARC LSH.
Rich
GarminGPSMap
Newly Enlightened
To me it's apples and oranges so I have and like both.
I still EDC the A2. LEDs haven't replaced incandescents for me yet, maybe in a few years worth of advances and it will.
I can't stand the blue tint, and the inability to throw like a SF M6 (if you don't have an M6, your missing a handheld light saber!). LEDs are usefull for up close tasks because of the flood and long runtime though.
I still EDC the A2. LEDs haven't replaced incandescents for me yet, maybe in a few years worth of advances and it will.
I can't stand the blue tint, and the inability to throw like a SF M6 (if you don't have an M6, your missing a handheld light saber!). LEDs are usefull for up close tasks because of the flood and long runtime though.
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Reno
Enlightened
My EDC (Surefire E2e) is about to enter semi-retirement, at least as an incan.
A PR-T head with the right Luxeon III, direct driven by a Pila Lion battery, gives superior results at the tiny cost of about 1/2 inch of length, 1/2 inch width (at the very end), and gives me a rechargeable, pocketable light cannon.
Spill and throw actually are supposed to increase with this kit, let alone the psychological boost of pure white light. You know you're a flashaholic when an E2e looks yellow to you...
A PR-T head with the right Luxeon III, direct driven by a Pila Lion battery, gives superior results at the tiny cost of about 1/2 inch of length, 1/2 inch width (at the very end), and gives me a rechargeable, pocketable light cannon.
Spill and throw actually are supposed to increase with this kit, let alone the psychological boost of pure white light. You know you're a flashaholic when an E2e looks yellow to you...
E
Emilion
Guest
My EDC is SF L5, Luxeon~ Simply because I can run it with Pila 168s and no blub to replace. It brightness and throw is far good enough for my everyday usage. The L5 has replaced my SL NightFighter 2 as EDC.
Actually, its quite a long time I haven't turn on my xenon based flashlights. The only incand still in service are those 2 Halogen from CatEye on my bike and the PrincetonTec Yukon (not HL) head lamp.
Actually, its quite a long time I haven't turn on my xenon based flashlights. The only incand still in service are those 2 Halogen from CatEye on my bike and the PrincetonTec Yukon (not HL) head lamp.
kitelights
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have no use for incans anymore. There's no doubt that for the most throw and brightness, incans win. I just don't need that kind of brightness and throw.
Many, if not most of my LED lights are brighter and have more throw than what I need in most of my applications.
With LEDs I don't have to pay for replacement bulbs, or take the time to change them, or have a dead light when they need to be replaced. I don't have to worry about the bulb breaking when the light is dropped or yellow/orange light as the light dims. I can buy a decent flashlight for the cost of some bulbs.
Many, if not most of my LED lights are brighter and have more throw than what I need in most of my applications.
With LEDs I don't have to pay for replacement bulbs, or take the time to change them, or have a dead light when they need to be replaced. I don't have to worry about the bulb breaking when the light is dropped or yellow/orange light as the light dims. I can buy a decent flashlight for the cost of some bulbs.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
I'll wade in here with an observation that I have heard from others while camping.
Incandescent lamps give more contrast to what you are looking at and offer truer color rendition. LED's are referred to as "blue light" and "flat lighting."
Medical lighting seems to be mostly halogen. There are a few LED head lamps available for the medical field, but most are bulb. Bernhard is trying out an LED penlight. It seems to be working well for him. His comments are that the LED beam color has to be white and it has to be bright.
This comes down to the quality of light. The quality of light seems to be better with bulbs than with LED's.
Tom
Incandescent lamps give more contrast to what you are looking at and offer truer color rendition. LED's are referred to as "blue light" and "flat lighting."
Medical lighting seems to be mostly halogen. There are a few LED head lamps available for the medical field, but most are bulb. Bernhard is trying out an LED penlight. It seems to be working well for him. His comments are that the LED beam color has to be white and it has to be bright.
This comes down to the quality of light. The quality of light seems to be better with bulbs than with LED's.
Tom
I have been wrestling with that issue myself. The need has arisen lately to locate certain objects on a rug that are incredibly difficult to see in normal room lighting (this relates to a dog with a certain problem). Thus I use a flashlight to look for them and find that the xenon lights do a much better job of making them visible by creating better contrast than does a LED. This in a large part is probably due to the fact that xenon lights can be brighter and better focussed than LED lights. I usually use a SF 9AN or a SL TL-3 (xenon) for the search.
To investigate further, I tried to find a xenon light and a LED light that gave the same area brightness as indicated by a photo meter. The SF L4 and SL TT2 showed very similar area intensity in the central part of the beams. Of course the L4 lights up the overall area better. (I knew there was a good reason behind my uncontrollable urge to buy all these flashlights. Ummm...that is a good reason...isn't it?) The central area bightness looks fairly similar to the eye, but the xenon does seem to have a slight edge by creating better contrast.
I hold the light low so that a shadow helps to delineate the objects. There doesn't seem to be as much shadow with the LED. This may be due to the LED light being spread out and bouncing around enough to somewhat fill in the shadow. Perhaps a more focussed LED would do better. I have shown unusual restraint and have not bought the Pelican M8 or other light with the reverse LED arrangement, which are supposed to have a reasonably focussed light. (I feel the restraint slipping badly when I look at the SF U2.)
At least for the present, it would appear that the xenon is better for making objects stand out against the beckground. On the negative side, the bulb life for the TL-3 is about 5 hours. Thus, as repeatedly said in CPF, have enough of both around to cover all bases.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
To investigate further, I tried to find a xenon light and a LED light that gave the same area brightness as indicated by a photo meter. The SF L4 and SL TT2 showed very similar area intensity in the central part of the beams. Of course the L4 lights up the overall area better. (I knew there was a good reason behind my uncontrollable urge to buy all these flashlights. Ummm...that is a good reason...isn't it?) The central area bightness looks fairly similar to the eye, but the xenon does seem to have a slight edge by creating better contrast.
I hold the light low so that a shadow helps to delineate the objects. There doesn't seem to be as much shadow with the LED. This may be due to the LED light being spread out and bouncing around enough to somewhat fill in the shadow. Perhaps a more focussed LED would do better. I have shown unusual restraint and have not bought the Pelican M8 or other light with the reverse LED arrangement, which are supposed to have a reasonably focussed light. (I feel the restraint slipping badly when I look at the SF U2.)
At least for the present, it would appear that the xenon is better for making objects stand out against the beckground. On the negative side, the bulb life for the TL-3 is about 5 hours. Thus, as repeatedly said in CPF, have enough of both around to cover all bases.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
jayflash
Flashlight Enthusiast
Like Garmin, I use both. For a night walk in the woods LED's are great and the lamps won't burn out unexpectedly. When trying to see something at a distance a good throwing xenon is (so far) unbeatable. Those dark trees really soak up a lot of light. I take both types for night walks.
SaratogaWay
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2004
- Messages
- 18
there's no contest. Luxeon blows away Xenon. here's why:
1. Xenon gets very hot and has a propensity to bust the filament upon shock, heavy vibration and prolonged heat exposure.
2. 1W Luxeon can be focused with a beam that can carry farther than most 10W Xenons (try Pelicans M8 or SabreLite Recoil LED)
3. battery consumption with the Lexeon is 3-4x longer than its Xenon counterpart.
Sure you pay a little more upfront with your initial acquishision cost, but in the long run, you don't have the liabilities of the Xenon and the replacement costs to boot.
Again in my opinion, Luxeons are here and are the future. 5 years tops, incans will be archaic and you'll only be able to get LED. Any challenges to this?
1. Xenon gets very hot and has a propensity to bust the filament upon shock, heavy vibration and prolonged heat exposure.
2. 1W Luxeon can be focused with a beam that can carry farther than most 10W Xenons (try Pelicans M8 or SabreLite Recoil LED)
3. battery consumption with the Lexeon is 3-4x longer than its Xenon counterpart.
Sure you pay a little more upfront with your initial acquishision cost, but in the long run, you don't have the liabilities of the Xenon and the replacement costs to boot.
Again in my opinion, Luxeons are here and are the future. 5 years tops, incans will be archaic and you'll only be able to get LED. Any challenges to this?
NikolaTesla
Flashlight Enthusiast
Get an SF L5 or L6 and RETIRE your incan to the collectors shelf. Try it- you will like it. I sold my 6P. Batteries last longer too....
NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--
My Lights: ***
http://www.tjtech.org/gallery/NikolaTesla/Nikola_lights2_001
NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--
My Lights: ***
http://www.tjtech.org/gallery/NikolaTesla/Nikola_lights2_001
BlindedByTheLite
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
SaratogaWay said:
2. 1W Luxeon can be focused with a beam that can carry farther than most 10W Xenons (try Pelicans M8 or SabreLite Recoil LED)
[/ QUOTE ]
those throw farther than 10W xenons?
SaratogaWay said:
2. 1W Luxeon can be focused with a beam that can carry farther than most 10W Xenons (try Pelicans M8 or SabreLite Recoil LED)
[/ QUOTE ]
those throw farther than 10W xenons?
JasonC8301
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
SaratogaWay said:
there's no contest. Luxeon blows away Xenon. here's why:
1. Xenon gets very hot and has a propensity to bust the filament upon shock, heavy vibration and prolonged heat exposure.
2. 1W Luxeon can be focused with a beam that can carry farther than most 10W Xenons (try Pelicans M8 or SabreLite Recoil LED)
3. battery consumption with the Lexeon is 3-4x longer than its Xenon counterpart.
Sure you pay a little more upfront with your initial acquishision cost, but in the long run, you don't have the liabilities of the Xenon and the replacement costs to boot.
Again in my opinion, Luxeons are here and are the future. 5 years tops, incans will be archaic and you'll only be able to get LED. Any challenges to this?
[/ QUOTE ]
My Tigerlight.
SaratogaWay said:
there's no contest. Luxeon blows away Xenon. here's why:
1. Xenon gets very hot and has a propensity to bust the filament upon shock, heavy vibration and prolonged heat exposure.
2. 1W Luxeon can be focused with a beam that can carry farther than most 10W Xenons (try Pelicans M8 or SabreLite Recoil LED)
3. battery consumption with the Lexeon is 3-4x longer than its Xenon counterpart.
Sure you pay a little more upfront with your initial acquishision cost, but in the long run, you don't have the liabilities of the Xenon and the replacement costs to boot.
Again in my opinion, Luxeons are here and are the future. 5 years tops, incans will be archaic and you'll only be able to get LED. Any challenges to this?
[/ QUOTE ]
My Tigerlight.
SaratogaWay
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2004
- Messages
- 18
JasonC8301
Oh sure, lets see, HMMMM
well I guess 1.1 hrs of burn rate is comparable, NOT. Plus don't you love having to wait overnite just for the thing to recharge? Or better yet, lets spend >$100 for the light and then get to spend another $14 (w/o incl S&H cost) for a bulb that may last 20 hrs of use. Great comparison!
Oh sure, lets see, HMMMM
well I guess 1.1 hrs of burn rate is comparable, NOT. Plus don't you love having to wait overnite just for the thing to recharge? Or better yet, lets spend >$100 for the light and then get to spend another $14 (w/o incl S&H cost) for a bulb that may last 20 hrs of use. Great comparison!
BlindedByTheLite
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
Broadbill said:
BBTL:
yes sir re-bob. Try it, clear or foggy conditions, above or below H2O. Doesn't matter. I've tried the Recoil against my Xenon Sabre, M10, M11, SL20 and others. No contest.
[/ QUOTE ]
oh, i wasn't aware of which lights were 10W xenons..
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
i'm a LED man.
Broadbill said:
BBTL:
yes sir re-bob. Try it, clear or foggy conditions, above or below H2O. Doesn't matter. I've tried the Recoil against my Xenon Sabre, M10, M11, SL20 and others. No contest.
[/ QUOTE ]
oh, i wasn't aware of which lights were 10W xenons..
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
i'm a LED man.
