Luxeon vs. Xenon

[js]

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TheFlashlight said:
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js said:
Here's a question: if it's not true, why doesn't the SureFire L4 have a longer runtime than the 6P? Both put out 60 lumens for an hour. And this is at what I would call low power.



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6P isn't regulated L4 is, so it'll be dimming during that hour. Also the A2 another 2 cell xenon, regulated for I think 50 lumens for 50 minutes. It seems like the 5 watt Luxeon is more efficient just not by a huge amount.

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The 6P/P60 is NOT regulated, so when SF quotes it at 65 lumens for one hour, this is a conservative average value. And it really IS conservative. Back when Peter Gransee did the integrating sphere tests of his lights and some others for lumen output, the E2, which is quoted at 60 lumens, put out 83 lumens in the test, on fresh batteries. Thus, the P60, quoted at 65 lumens, is most likely puting out 88 lumens on fresh batteries. So despite the end of cycle dimming, my guess is that the 6P/C2/M2/etc. w/ P60 LOLA gives more integrated lumens-minutes than the L4, even counting the long dim time after it falls out of regulation. It's arguable, at any rate.

The A2 is really not a good comparison, because of the 10 ohm resistance in the tail switch (is this out of the circuit when the incan is running?--not sure) and the low level LEDs which are still being driven while the incandescent lamp is on (this I'm sure about).

As for throw, it really comes down to how much light you want to throw. 30 lumens? Luxeons can probably throw farther then incandescents. Probably. 100 lumens, 300 lumens, or 1000 lumens? Well, halogen lamps will definitely out throw LEDs, because it's a matter of comparing the size and radiation pattern of the emitter to the reflector size and geometry. The WA 1185, for example, has got a pretty darn small filament. As small as a Lux III, at any rate, yet it puts out 800 lumens or more depending on the drive voltage. How many Luxeon emitters do you reckon it'd take to stack up to 800 lumens? How much more area would we be talking about? I'm not sure, but it would be a lot more.

Luxeons are very cool and really great for many applications, but let's not get out of hand, here. For myself, even at the 6V level, I prefer good halogen incandescent lamps to LEDs, but that's just me. YMMV.

 

[jbrett14]

Jim, your information is very interesting. Why do you prefer the halogen over xenon though?

 

[js]

jbrett14,

It's not that I unqualifiedly prefer halogen incandescent lamps over luxeon LEDs; it's that IF I want the best color rendition and a full spectrum light for the best viewing, with no restrictions on lamp lifetime, size of light, power, etc., THEN, IN THAT CASE, I would defintely chose halogen incan. That's all I'm saying.

Because, for an EDC light, I think Luxeon lights win hands down. All the incan lights small enough to be EDC, and with an hour or more runtime, that I have experience with, don't put out a good enough beam to overcome the inherent disadvantages of incandescent lamps. At this power and size level, a Luxeon is the obvious choice.

But on the other hand, if you're a hot wire guy like myself, and you enjoy using 20 watt , 25 watt, 35 watt, or even higher powered flashlights, you know the sheer AWESOME light emitted by a super high temperature tungstun filament in a halogen gas such as Xenon. It would be as if someone you knew were putting down LEDs based only on experience with the Nichia 5mm LEDs. You'd say "Wait just a second. Check out this Lux III I have . . ." I often wonder if it isn't the same situation with CPFers who put down incan lights so forcefully and say that there is "no contest". Depends on the light, depends on the game.

As I said before, I do not intend to put down LED lights. I really like my Arcs and my FF and my EDC is a FF w/ TY0J Lux III. But when I go out at night and play in the fields, or when I want to light up the coyotes making all the wierd noise in the field across the road, I grab my most powerful incan.

It's funny. When Ginseng and other hot wire guys talk about lumens, we're talking HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of lumens. Not 60. Not 100. But 500, 800, 1200 or 4000. Ginseng's Aurora LOLA (that's right, the LOW output lamp) puts out more light than a car headlight. Think about that.

Anyway, sorry to ramble.

 

[Phaserburn]

For me, it's simple. Led's for indoors and all task work (in and outside) for their advantages in color, runtime, flood beam, etc. Outside walking/searching duties are ruled by incans. When walking at night, I use my MC60, but have my L4 in my pocket should I want to stop and get a good long look at something under bright, even, white light.

 

[scrappy]

I think the death of Incand. has been highly exaggerated. The other night I heard some rustling in my wooded backyard (turned out to be racoons), anyway, I went to the light closet and there stood my SF L6, L4, my arc 4+, my KL-3 on a C3, my KL-1 on an e1e, AND my Surefire M6. Sure enough, I grabbed the M6 and lit up half my block. That is the one light I cannot live without.

Rich

 

[jbrett14]

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js said:
jbrett14,

It's not that I unqualifiedly prefer halogen incandescent lamps over luxeon LEDs;

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I wish I could have stopped you from trying to explain yourself. Apparantly you misread my last question. I was actually asking why you prefer halogen over XENON, not Luxeon. Aren't halogens and xenons two different types of incans? I though xenons were the best?

 

[js]

Oh, sorry! You're right. I missed that. Xenon and Krypton lamps both are members of the halogen family. My favorite lamps I know are halogens, but I'm not sure whether or not they are Xenon. Probably. I think you are right. Xenons are the best of the halogens, I think, but I'm not sure. That's why I say "halogen" and not "xenon". That's all. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[idleprocess]

In my experience, low-power LED arrays (single-die 3/5mm LEDs, 1-4 LEDs) perform poorly in mixed-light conditions - such as parking lots, garages, warehouses, and the (sub)urban jungle - where it's dark on average, but there are occasional patches of light to interfere with the eye's dark-adaptation process.

The output is simply too dim to illuminate objects more than 24-36" distant. Even 1W Luxeons come up a bit short under these conditions.

Unless you need super-accurate color rendition, a killer light cannon, or an improvised car headlight replacement, LEDs do fine for general flashlight duty. Hopefully, they'll work on conversion efficiency for the next-generation of high-power LEDs so that heat won't be as mush of a problem.