Mag3D mod : help needed!

[fneuf]

Hello everyone! :wave:


First a bit of history: after having spent years thinking Maglite where great illuminators I suddently discover a french topic http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Discussions/Viepratique/lampes-torches-addict-sujet_54128_1.ht :twothumbs I soon realise there was other paths to follow... That quickly leads me to Cpf forums lovecpf

After weeks of searching, looking, reading :popcorn:, some purchases :grin2: (Rega EDC, Romisen RC-N2, Fenix E01) and even a bit of modding (TLE-5EX in an old Maglite Mini2xAA). I came to one conclusion : MUST do something better to my Maglite 3xD. I first consider multiple drop-ins, ended on Malkoff solutions, but price :broke:, availability and the fact that I could build something myself made me drop :crackup:that idea.


So here is the idea, I got one host : a Mag 3D and then spirit, hands, a bit of money and a spoonfull of time :thinking:. And here you come : your inputs and advices on doing such.

Currently my "requirements" would be :

• A "usable" light (for now, I don't want a 5 min demonstration monster) : 2 hours@full power would be great
• Would prefer LED mod over bulb moding (liftetime and stressability)
• No lithium batteries, only "standard" ones. For practicality I would like the option to be lost with my light nowhere in the known or unknown world and able to find AA or D batteries in any store to drive my Mag
• Multi-output modes (High/Med/Low are mandatory but Strobe, SOS, ... would be also funny and infact programmable one would be perfect!)
• A bit of a thrower (sorry, don't have scientific distance in mind) but a great spill (ok that is not really precise)
• Smoothness of the beam is the priority over throw
• I would like to keep focusability (so, as far as I know: no multi LED mods)
• I tend to prefer warm colors (to me="as yellowish", tell me if this incorrect interpretation of warm) over cold (to me="as bluish")
• Reversability of the mod would be great, if possible

Coming from those inputs I have done a little list of parts I need:

• Emitter: P7, MC-E, other multi die one ?
• Driver : a one able to handle from 3,6 to 18v? Giving at to spec 2,8 or 3A? Is it possible to overdrive a P7 without:poof:?
• Multi-mod handling board: ?
• Interface : is it possible to replace the clicky original Mag UI to a multi position rotary button (low->med->high->...)? Other option to get over the traditional Mag UI
• Heatsink : if possible, would like one able to suit next LED generations. What other caracteristics are important to look at. (and strangely I would like to own one with a "cool" colour, have seen orangish and green ones :kiss:)
• Thermal glue : Arctic Elumina expoy ? (is it reversible to change LED?)
• Thermalpaste : seems that Arctic silver is popular here
• Wires : ???
• Batteries : does drivers that can drive with efficiency a LED from either 3xD NiMh or MultixAA. That means from 3,6v (3*1,2v) to 13,5v (9*1,5v) or 18v (12*1,5) exist? Which solution is preferable? I see on cpf there is a tip to hold 4AA in one D sized Mag body without boring it, I will try in mine, if it works does it mean the 12AA->3D adapter would fit nicely too?
• Bezel : for a bit of style would like a standard Mag one but coming from a different colour than the body (like a pewter one as seen on the 4th Mag from left, the deep blue one here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=225284)
• Reflector : whas interested in fivemega ones, but cammed ones seems unavailable. Which opening diameter fits my needs?
• Lens : I already own UCL and Borofloat ones from flashlightlens.com

Some others questions : how does the circuit board holds together inside the Mag/heatsink? Does special holders exists?
Do I have missed one thing? :thinking: Can you recommend me parts and where to buy those parts?


Thanks for reading up here:candle:

Any help would be appreciated! :grouphug:
Regards,
fneuf :wave:


PS: also, as I'm building this topic, I will update this post with reference to where I will buy parts in order to help forthcoming lost people wanting to mod

 

[Gunner12]

Have you seen this thread?

You can get a Malkoff Seoul P7 drop-in if you want simplicity.

For multimode, I've seen some that have a knob which is twisted to increase output.

If you have a 3 cell maglite, direct drive, resistor, or a "smart resistor"(probably not the right term, drops excessive voltage) is probably a good solution. Direct drive is probably the most efficent since there is no energy loss in the driver.

Ther heatsink will cover the part that moves the cam, so a cammed reflector won't be of use. The heatsink is in the light too, so probably won't be seen. As for what suits the next generation, they should all work but to be sure, get one with a flat post(but this can make the LED a bit harder to center). As long as whatever LED coems next fits on the heatsink, the heatsink will work.

:welcome:

 

[tx101]

Direct drive the P7 with 3 x D cells add a D2Flex board for multi output
Heatsinks look for the ones sold by Britelumens or H22A
Wquiles has posted a great tutorial on how to build a direct drive D2flex Mag P7
Multi die emitters have more of a flood beam than throw but the size of the
Mag reflector does compensate for this
To get a smooth beam from a P7 you need a OP (orange peel) reflector with a 15mm opening. Because of the heatsink you can only use a camless reflector but you can still focus the beam by screwing/unscrewing the Mag head. I think the 15mm FM ones are still avaliable

If you decide to go the with a buck driver, have a look at the Shark 3A buck with Remora install which will give you three levels. Or you can do without the Remora and install a dimming pot (look for threads by Led Zeppelin)
Another buck driver you should look at is the HipCC by Taskled which has a even more verstile list of functions. But you do need to mod the switch into a momnetary action

Use AA epoxy to "glue" the emitter to the heatsink. Some people report that using nail vanish remover will help remove AA epoxy.

Teflon sleeved wire is prefered .... heat resistant and the teflon sleeve is tougher

I have a spare pewter bezel :naughty: ..... but I think Download's stainless steel bezel look better.

Hope that helps
And please let us know how you get on with modding your Mag :twothumbs


PS .... depending on the type of heatsink you get, you can epoxy the board onto the back
or use some copper pipe and make a small heatsink for the board that is then AAed to the body of the Mag

 

[Justin Case]

When you say that you "would like the option to be lost with my light nowhere in the known or unknown world and able to find AA or D batteries in any store to drive my Mag", do you mean the capability to use regular alkaline AA or D cells? If so, then 3xAA or 3xD in alkaline won't work well driving a P7 LED. They won't be able to deliver the ~3A of current needed to run the P7 at full power. They won't cut it at 2A either.

For the capability to run using alkaline cells, I would suggest the following two configuration options:

- 1) Seoul P4 or 2) Seoul P7
- The Sandwich Shoppe GD1000 driver
- The usual choices for D Mag heat sinks, reflectors, and glass windows

AA and D alkalines still probably can't deliver 2 hr runtime for either configuration, but you should get maybe 1.5 hours from the D cells and 20-30 min from the AAs.

For the P7, you are going to underdrive it by a lot. Still, calculated emitter output is probably 100 lumens higher than what you'd get from the P4. And if you get a DxxxI-bin P7, you'll have a lower Vf as well vs the typical U2xxxH-bin P4.

Do you plan on carrying a sleeve or AA->D adapter shells to be able to use AA cells in a D Mag?

 

[fneuf]

Quick answers:

>>>>gunner12:
Have already seen Malkoff, but price and availability made me look other ways. Like trying to do it my way :)

>>>>tx01:
woooosh, better look at all those options before answering you!

>>>>Justin Case:
Infact when I talk about using AA, I'm assuming I will buy either:

• 4AA in parallel (so 1,5v):
  
  http://www.aventrade.com/baad.html Just a bit questionning myself about how it will handle battery capacity differences. The weakest one will suffer...
• Fivemega's 9AA to 3D adapters http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=182370
• mdocod's 9AA to 3D adapters http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=223785
• Fivemega's 12AA to 3D adapters http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=198633

Any input from the resistance of thos adapters? Or are they all in same class?



LED : Considering I would prefer a bit of a yellowish tint over a bit of a bluish, I have found this precious:

• SSC P7 DSW0I (aka W724C0) from Photonfanatic http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=189478

Seem perfect on paper, D lux output class, SW0 tint, and I drivability class. Any commentaries? Does "real" beamshots from each white tint class exist somewhere?

Heatsink : many, many options going around here. Have looked at the ones you were recommending.

• Kind of like the HAIII ones by h22A found there http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=160483 They seem decently priced over the challengers.
• Have also a bit of interest for this "special" version from Britelumens http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2902206
• But infact I'm a bit lost. What is the perfect heatsink when it comes to heat dissipation? Does all the heatsink sold there are easily removable from the Mag?

Reflectors : can aluminium ones participate in heat dissipation?

• Hybrid FM2 from fivemega http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=207494unfortunately seems that the highest opened ones are anavailable...
• Other great challengers to look at, in order to get a perfect beam, with no donuts and so on?

 

[Justin Case]

Ok, but using those AA adapters is slightly inconsistent with using three D cells as one of your other alternative power configurations.

For a 9AA adapter, you are looking at 10.8V nominal. Three D cells is 3.6V nominal. If you want good running with 3xD Alkaline, then you aren't going to be able to use a P7 driven at full power (700ma per core). At 10.8V, the AAs have to deliver only about 1A. At 3.6V, the D cells have to deliver about 3A. Alkalines aren't going to like that. You can use a P7 if you underdrive it, e.g., with 250ma to each core.

If you want to be able to run with both alkaline AAs (and usingand Ds and also want max lumens from those batteries, I suggest a DxxxI-bin P7 driven by something like an SOB1000. At 1000ma drive current (250ma per core), you may get 330 emitter lumens. The 9AA configuration certainly will run in regulation. You are well above Vf, so the SOB buck driver will work well. The 3D configuration will probably run in direct drive. If you are lucky and get a low Vf P7, you might run in regulation for a short while.

To maximize the probability of running in regulation with 3 alkaline D cells, you could use an M-flux bin MC-E in 4P. Vf at 250ma per core is probably about 3.1V. In that case, you might want to use Britelumens's MC-E heat sink.

If you want to run the P7 at full power, then forget about using 3 alkaline D cells as a power source.

The heat sinks slide into the top of the Mag body. It is a mechanical friction fit. The sink slides in/out relatively easily. Many mod'ers coat the outside of the sink with some thermal compound to improve conduction to the Mag body.

Yes, there is some heat sinking contribution from a metal reflector. The LED heat sink contacts the bottom of the reflector at the reflector hole, providing a thermal conduction path. The heat sink contacts the Mag body, which contacts the Mag head through the threads, which contacts the reflector (a little) at the crown. That's another (tortuous) thermal path. I think that many folks get the Kaidomain 15mm opening orange peel reflector (SKU S006166).

 

[fneuf]

As I'm buying Britelumens "bodybuilded" heatsink I will also go for its MOP metal relector (15 mm opening) http://www.britelumens.com/maglite_accessories, any advices on those? How does it compete compared to FM 15mm ones http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=215018?

Infact my idea is not to run most of the time the Mag with 3xD batteries, but just have the opportunity to switch to this power source (and also as "a performance" telling me that it's still able to run as stock :grin2:) . Too bad if this way the P7 is underdriven, but as long as it works decently as a save mode, I will be ok. To resume, I'm ok if the boards I choose for this mod allow:

• Direct drive in Ni-Mh or alkalines 3xD batteries (4,5v nominal)
• Regulation and multi-mode on 9AA or 12AA (10,8 or 14,4v nominal), in preference with a target efficiency around 90%

=> I need to find a regulation board that will switch to direct drive if input voltage gets under LED Vf and with an excellent efficiency for nominal situation (multi AA). That means a Vin range of ~18v to 2,7v giving the best amperage it can from the lowest voltage.

Is there anyway to heatsink the PCB's (in order of both lowering heat and extending runtimes without touching heat sensors cut-off/reduced mode) in a way they are still "reachable/removable/servicable/reprogrammable" (I think that excludes drowning them into epoxy or so)?

Have you guys tried the Der Wichtel buck circuit or the PWM dimmer?

 

[fneuf]

A question about the assembling. To sold the emitter with the wires coming from PCB's, will my 15W Antex soldering iron with a 0.12mm bit be ok? (I mean not to cook apart the DEL)

 

[fneuf]

Hi back,

I'm still in the process (and while waiting to organize this LED mod, I've built up a Mag85 :grin2:). I will probably switch from a 3D (now use by my incan mode) to 2D (see britelumens HAIII thread) but I'm looking to bore the 2D (britelumens doesn't offer that right now). Are there modders here offering machining?

I have bought a DSVNI. How can I precisely define the exact Vf for it?

About the drivers, I'm thinking about the couple "hipCC+d2flex". How does it compete againt the Shark/Remora solution? Is it possible to get a "moon low" with those?

PS : Soldering question still alive.

 

[fneuf]

I've almost finishing sourcing parts, but I'm a bit getting again in the reflexion part for the batteries. In the meantime I've also decided to switch a bit the configuration.

• The 3D will be used hotwired: JM-PhD-D1 / Kiu socket
• A 2D would welcome the P7 / D2flex+HipCC original aim

For both of those setups, would 14500 be a good idea over NiMh ?

Some questions are waiting for your comments and advices there : http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3116389

 

[fneuf]

I've now all parts at home, and playing with them.

But I'm having one trouble, that wquiles has also shown recently :

Britelumens deluxed heatsink doesn't fit the hipCC...:sick2:
As the HipCC needs a thermal way to ensure its security I feel a bit doomed.
- there is not enough space left in the mag tube between the bottom of the heatsink and the top of the modded switch to fit the hipCC verticaly (imagining that I would have put a metallic piece between hipCC and tube (part of a "roundish" on one side and flat on the opposite)
- I could also put the HipCC "horizontaly" and fill all the space between heatsink and switch with thermal grease or thermal paste...:whistle:

What better (or realistic) options would you suggest me?