Maha MH-C9000 SUPPORT / FAQ - continuation

[Russel]

... Whatever I do at this point seems to create a downward spiral for these batts. So, yes...a capacity drop each time.
If it's of interest I was using 1,400ma for charge/700 ma for discharge, with the exception of the last discharge where I used 600ma.
Any thoughts?

Marc

Have you tried two or three break-in cycles in a row?

Russ

 

[sygyzy]

I have the predecessor to this charger. Can this model "jumpstart" an adjacent cell? You know, the trick where you put a dead cell next to a live one, use a wire for 10 seconds, then plug in the charger? I don't see why this couldn't be a built in function.

 

[Marc999]

Nope, I haven't tried 2 or 3 back to back 'break-ins' with the powerex 2,700s. As others mentioned, I decided not to get my boxers in a knot over the slightly lowered capacity during repeated back to back 'refresh/analyze, discharge'. I ended up just using the batts. and they've been fine re: run time. I agree with others that I didn't allow for a long enough rest between cycles. Voltage never got a chance to settle down and kept terminating prior to expected capacity.
All the year 2006 eneloops I have, are breaking-in around 1900+, which meets the minimum capacity and puts a smile on my face. I'm currently breaking in some year 2008 president's choice 'ready to use' batts. [supposedly eneloops]. I'll be curious to see the results.

Thanks guys, and welcome to the spring season.

Marc

 

[Russel]

So far, running Eneloops through the C9000 break-in cycle with default 500ma discharge.

Average capacity of 12 2006 code date Eneloop AA cells: 1929.25mah
with none falling below 1900mah.
ID size C C measured
9 AA 2000 1944 -2.80% 06-08 T3
10 AA 2000 1940 -3.00% 06-08 T3
11 AA 2000 1905 -4.75% 06-08 TT
12 AA 2000 1944 -2.80% 06-08 TT
13 AA 2000 1927 -3.65% 06-08 T4
14 AA 2000 1959 -2.05% 06-08 T4
15 AA 2000 1923 -3.85% 06-08 TL
16 AA 2000 1905 -4.75% 06-08 TL
17 AA 2000 1917 -4.15% 06-08 T2
18 AA 2000 1970 -1.50% 06-08 TT
19 AA 2000 1900 -5.00% 06-08 T2
20 AA 2000 1917 -4.15% 06-08 T4



Average capacity of 4 2008 Eneloop AAA cells: 796.5mah
ID size C C measured
1 AAA 800 803 0.38% 08-04 OC
2 AAA 800 793 -0.88% 08-04 OC
3 AAA 800 794 -0.75% 08-04 OC
4 AAA 800 796 -0.50% 08-04 OC

 

[tnuckels]

We have a fairly large inventory of Duracell and Energizer rechargeable AAA and AA batteries and almost all of them are NOT the newer L)ow S)elf D)ischarge type. I recently bought a few packs of the LSD batteries and like them well enough to decide that any new purchases will be LSD from here on out.

In order to better understand my current inventory and weed out any weak or defective batteries to make room for the newer LSD batteries, I bought the MAHA / Powerex MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger-Analyzer and am currently running all the batteries I can find through the Refresh / Analyze process.

My question is this: Is there any consensus on what constitutes a battery that needs to be recycled, like perhaps a % drop in capacity?

Some of my older cells are down 25 – 30, even 50%. I might spend some time trying to revive the more promising ones and know there is a point of diminishing returns somewhere in this process, I'm just not sure where it is.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Tnuckels,

I recycle cells when they drop below 80% of their initial capacity.

Tom

 

[tnuckels]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your insight here. Would you be using mAh stated on the battery's label as a starting point, or capacity that you've marked somewhere after a run through the Break-In sequence?

I really like this charger for the flexibility each bay has and extra information it gives you, but see a potential pitfall in that I don't want to make a career of battery maintenance. We're still running the machines and not visa-versa … right?

 

[Alan B]

I have both the C9000 and the Lacrosse BC-900. I wish the C9000 had the nifty "cycle each cell until it stops improving" mode of the BC-900. That makes it easy to bring a cell up to the max it is going to get to, and then you can decide if that's good enough.

 

[pobox1475]

the nifty "cycle each cell until it stops improving" mode of the BC-900. That makes it easy to bring a cell up to the max it is going to get to,

Interesting. I have a C9000 and thought it covered all the necessary bases.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Tnuckels,

In most cases the initial capacity is a little less than the labeled capacity. If you don't have records of what the initial capacity was, you could probably go with 90 - 95% of the labeled capacity as a starting point.

Tom

 

[tnuckels]

Thanks again Tom.

I had spent a fair amount of time reading up here on CPF on the two leading chargers: the BC-900 & C9000 and thought there was a fairly strong leaning here toward the C9000. I did not, however, take the time to read through the user's manuals, which I will usually do if they are available online.

An automated refresh sequence that runs as long as progress is still being made, then cuts off, sounds like a very useful feature. No need to keep up with the results of each sequence; more time to loaf off.

Doh! Does the list of things I need, that I didn't know existed pre-CPF, never end?

 

[Mike89]

Since William came in here from Maha, I have a question for him. Is there any new Maha chargers on the drawing board? Actually surprised no one asked him that question as we are always looking for new stuff.


I wonder if Turbo ever exchanged his C-9000s (or got rid of them altogether). He was pretty vocal in not liking them much.


I recently ordered both. I'm a newbie in the rechargeable battery world (I've been reading my *** off lately in this forum to get up to speed) and am looking forward to see what my take is going to be down the road with these two chargers.

My impression so far of the rechargeable world. I have become quite intrigued with all the information (a lot more than I would have thought possible). Seems this is not for the faint of heart or for those that do not like to tinker (fortunately, I am neither of those). Quite a different routine than using disposable primaries. I suspect it's going to be quite interesting.

 

[Turbo DV8]

I wonder if Turbo ever exchanged his C-9000s (or got rid of them altogether). He was pretty vocal in not liking them much.

I got rid of them. Mine were far too finicky and inconsistent.

 

[Mike89]

Whatever charges your boat man. To each his own charger. I got my C800s and BC900 today and have been playing around with them. The C800s is good in that it can charge 8 batteries. It's a pretty basic charger with not much user configuration. The BC900 is ok so far but a little figgity with the controls. Still trying to get the hang of it. I don't really like that it can't do a stand alone discharge (without charging back up again). The C800S can't either (and the C800S doesn't give any comparitive information on how close the batteries are to each other, just lists them as Done). Should have my C9000 in a couple of more days. Don't hold me to this quite yet (since I don't actually have it yet) but I have a feeling that I'm going to like the C9000 better than the other two. I think it's going to have more of the options/configuration I'm going to want and would use the most (and the "Break In" mode pretty much sold me). I don't plan on really doing any 200 mah charging as I don't particularly think that's really good for the batteries. So I doubt this termination thing is really going to come into play for me. I plan on using all 3 as I like to use what I spend money on.

Time will tell which one will be my main.


On a side note. 4 Lacross 2600 mah AA and 4 Lacross 1000 mah AAA batteries came with the BC900. I'm giving them a go in both chargers to get the hang of this charging thing but I think the batteries (especially the AA ones) are bad. The readings are all over the place, 2 of them less than 50% of the other two, and the other two still well below rated mah. I'm still playing around with them, running them through all the options to make sure. I think I'm going to end up asking Thomas Distributing if they will send me some more free unless these chargers really can bring them back from the dead.

Might as well ask a rookie question while I'm spouting off here. I did a discharge and charge of all 4 AAs on the BC900 (when doing this, one of the batteries switched over to "charge" in about 1 minute, the other 3 over an hour). When they were all done, I cycled through the Display button to get to the mah. Now I assume what I was looking at was the capacity from the discharge and not what was put into them (as I know the two are different)?

Anyway the mah was something like 1156, 1103, 1469, 237 (which I guess is 2370). Kind of all over the place. I'm currently running them though a Refresh to see what happens but it seems right now I only have one decent one out of the four. I think those batteries must be really old.

 

[SS-3]

Hi, I'm newbie to chargers other than my experience with charging NiCad packs for RC cars over a decade ago. I chose the MH-C9000 over the LaCrosse BC-900 and hopefully I made the right choice. I purchased my MH-C9000 from Thomasville and it should be here in a few days. I have a couple of questions that I hope someone on here can answer.

1) I purchased two four packs of the Sanyo Eneloop 2000mA batteries. Should these batteries go thru the break-in cycle or can I just charge them normally?

2) Maha and Thomasville recommend charging these at 1000mA and no less then .33 which would be 660mA, round up to 700mA. Should I charge at 1000mA or 700mA in regards to battery longevity? I believe the default on the MH-C9000 is 1000mA from the reading I have done.

3) The online manual from Maha and Thomasville is really light and not in-depth. Is there a more in-depth manual around or an area of this thread that provides greater detail or do I just have to read thru this forum for more information.

FYI... This is my first post on this board, I'm a new member.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello SS-3,

Welcome to CPF.

Your Eneloop cells will most likely work just fine if you simply use them. On the other hand, if you want the absolute most from them and have some extra time, do a discharge followed by a break-in.

The default 1000 mA is a very good rate to charge your cells.

You may want to do a search in the reviews section of CPF for an in depth review of the C9000.

Tom

 

[Turbo DV8]

I purchased my MH-C9000 from Thomasville...

Wow, Thomas Distributing is getting big... really big!


:welcome:

 

[Ditmanw]

Hi All

I have been having a read of this forum and have to say is most informative.

I am the proud owner of a brand new MH-C9000 and am having problems understanding the settings.

My main question at the moment is when putting cells in for Refresh and analyze there are 2 settings and I am not sure if I am setting them correctly based on the manual.

First setting is charge rate. (please set me straight if I am reading this all wrong) I have a 2200Mah x .5 = 1100 manual say between .3 and 1.0) for my charge setting and I am leaving discharge rate at default. Am I getting it right or should I charge at a higher or lower rate ?

Thanks in advance.

Lawrie

 

[Black Rose]

A charge rate of 1000 or 1100 mA (close to 0.5C) is fine for a 2200 mAh cell.

The 500 mA discharge rate is also fine....that's what I normally use for all my cells in the 2000 - 2100 mAh capacity range.

 

[TakeTheActive]

...I am the proud owner of a brand new MH-C9000 and am having problems understanding the settings.

My main question at the moment is when putting cells in for Refresh and analyze there are 2 settings and I am not sure if I am setting them correctly based on the manual.

First setting is charge rate. (please set me straight if I am reading this all wrong) I have a 2200Mah x .5 = 1100 manual say between .3 and 1.0) for my charge setting...

The Industry Recommended Charge Rate is 0.5-1.0C. Thus, for 2200mAh cells that's 1100-2200mA. IMHO, most Newbies 'overthink' things and then get nervous looking for 'Hard-and-Fast' Rules. Instead, look for GUIDELINES, experiment, and then choose what works best for you / you like.

Personally, before I found CPF, I often charged at 200mA (with my La Crosse BC-900) and did quite a bit of damage to my rechargeable battery collection (i.e. unrealized missed terminations on ~50+ Rayovac 1300mAh and/or 1600mAh HSD NiMH cells). Before the BC-900, I used a Rayovac PS1 (~200mA) and then a Rayovac PS3 (~500mA). Since the PS3 got my cells pretty hot and the PS1 didn't, I (incorrectly) chose 200mA for the BC-900. Now, with my Maha MH-C9000 and it's wider channel spacing, I charge my 'newer' LSD and 'older non-CRAP' HSD cells at as high a rate as possible between 0.5 and 1.0C without generating excess heat (measured 'somewhat inaccurately' with an old RadioShack Indoor/Outdoor Thermometer - i.e. if 1.0C gets the cell over 120°F, next time I'll lower it to 0.75-0.80C and monitor the temperature again).

CLICK on my Sig Line LINK and you find PLENTY of 'Charge Rate' articles in the first section 'Rechargeable Battery'.

...and I am leaving discharge rate at default. Am I getting it right or should I charge at a higher or lower rate ?

For Discharge Rate, I always use 0.2C for 'Standardization', i.e., when you run a 'Break-In' cycle on the MH-C9000, it charges at 0.1C and discharges at 0.2C. Since I record those numbers, I like to also compare 'Apples-to-Apples' when I run a 'Refresh-and-Analyze' or 'Cycle' cycle.

My observations show:

• LOW Discharge Current -> HIGH(er) Cell Capacity
• HIGH Discharge Current -> LOW(er) Cell Capacity

Again, not a 'Hard-and-Fast' Rule - just a choice I made.

You made a good purchase. Invest a few hours 'Reading-and-Learning' about proper 'Care and Maintenance' and then have fun!