Make a 3496 amber? Or use 2357A?

[Cadchris]

I was going to start another thread to ask this specific question about a bulb on this chart, so here it goes:

Is this HONDA bulb below "Amber-Glass" or coated with "Amber-Coating"?????

3457A (3457NA)

Honda 34906-SJC-A02

12V 28/8W Amber Krypton

Sylvania

Would the Honda/Stanley bulb 3457A be brighter w/o the amber color (vs.) the GE Nighthawk clear-3457, and if the Honda bulb is coated in amber-tint, can the coating be removed with some kind of solvent?

I ask because the Honda bulbs are often spoken here to be superior including the often reference to retrofit an Honda 3496 in place of a 1157 for increased brightness. Wondering if the same can be achieved if it's an amber-coating that can be easily removed from the Honda/Stanley 3457A.

I just found some 2357NA Wagners still in a package, and took some sand paper to them......and they're definitely "Amber Glass", so the Honda's are probably too.

 

[Mr. Merk]

I run the Honda bulbs in the front turn signals of my GMC Sierra. They are amber glass, not coated glass.

 

[Cadchris]

Good to know.....thanks......you saved me from ordering some just to test out. Was hoping to find and come up with something even better than the GE Nighthawk clear-3457 for my Caddy's tail-lights, and had the idea that a Honda bulb might be coated, like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PY27_7W_lamp_used.JPG but slim chance it would be.

I've had another idea on my mind for a few years now I'd like to ask the experts here on reflector/housing enhancements, so I'll start another thread some day....:thinking:

 

[-Virgil-]

Would the Honda/Stanley bulb 3457A be brighter w/o the amber color (vs.) the GE Nighthawk clear-3457

No. Amber bulbs (of whatever kind) put out less light than the uncolored version of the same bulb. A plain 1157 puts out 32/3 candlepower, while an amber one, whether coated or painted or made of amber glass, puts out 24/2.2 candlepower. If you remove the coating or paint from an amber 1157, you wind up with messy hands and 32/3 candlepower, same as just buying an uncolored 1157 in the first place. It works the same for any/every other type of bulb, too, not just 1157.

(Also, I have edited your original post to refer to the current/up-to-date version of the chart you were looking at. It's not a Stanley bulb, Honda gets it from Sylvania.)

 

[Cadchris]

Thanks Virgil.

I was going to ask a long-winded question, but here's a shorter version.

What about using a clear Honda/Stanley 3496 (40/3cp) and tinting it amber (vs.) a 2357NA (30/2.2cp)?

Would I end up with the same candlepower for the 3496 like the 2357NA?

The Honda/Stanley 3496 would probably be a better made bulb if using Daniel Sterns DRL-1 module.......right?

I found a mfg. in Germany that formulates bulb-lacquers much like the discontinued ROSCO Colorine bulb lacquer, or use what I think you guys recommend was the DupliColor Metalcast paint to tint bulbs.

 

[-Virgil-]

I was going to ask a long-winded question, but here's a shorter version.

Thank you for your consideration!

What about using a clear Honda/Stanley 3496 (40/3cp) and tinting it amber (vs.) a 2357NA (30/2.2cp)?

There is probably not a practical way to tint them.

I found a mfg. in Germany that formulates bulb-lacquers much like the discontinued ROSCO Colorine bulb lacquer

That's interesting. Can you post a link/info?

or use what I think you guys recommend was the DupliColor Metalcast paint to tint bulbs.

I don't think you'd have adequate durability with the Metalcast or similar material (I think it wouldn't tolerate the heat and would flake off) and it is not made in a correct amber color for what you'd need.

Would I end up with the same candlepower for the 3496 like the 2357NA?

Plus/minus a candlepower or two, close enough to make no practical difference, so you might as well as just use these, much easier and less expensive, and with a longer life.

 

[Cadchris]

Thanks Virgil for the link to those Bosch bulbs.

The abridged long-winded version! LoL.

The bulb paint I researched is by Hatolite that I discovered a few years ago after I pestered all the Rosco Reps to find me some of their old orange bulb paint since my idea was to buy the better Honda/Stanley 3496 bulb I often read about on the forum.
I did find someone who had old inventory of the ROSCO Red bulb tint, but not amber/orange.

The Hatolite bulb-paint was listed on AmazonUK but they are no longer selling nor would ship to the U.S. anyway due to flammability.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B010NX2QKA/

However, there is a e-bay seller in Czech Republic that I contacted a few times who seems reliable and sells all of different colors of Hatolite. As of last year, this was the only way to get it to the U.S. to avoid all of inflated Hazardous Material Tariffs ect. but I see now the price is $60 for 60ml shipped......just not sure if you guys have heard about it, and/or if it would be superior in color to the orange DupliColor Metal-Cast paint since my idea last year was to try it on the Honda/Stanley 3496........

Do a search for "Hatolite" or "Hatolite orange Glühlampen Tauchlack 1l Glühlampenlack Lampenlack bulb lacquer") on E-bay.

Also, you will see Hatolite is widely distributed in Europe by a company called FLINTS, but they will not send it to the U.S.

I just e-mailed the Ahuasman rep. in Germany that I was in contact with a few times to see if they ever got a U.S. distributor.......

Originally they had someone who was going to ship it too me and fudge the paper-work to get it here for a about $30, but that person was fired, and the cost went up to a few hundred dollars due to the IMO-Dangerous Goods Declaration.

During my research, I also asked them if they have a color spectrum data sheet like is seen when you click on one of the Rosco colors here https://us.rosco.com/en/products/catalog/roscolux since I'm guessing you'd really want to see that data if I can get it, but as of last year, their head Lab-Tech said they do not have color spectrum data on their paints, which probably is valuable info for Rosco to offer it in their color filters, and value to you to assess the color spectrum, so I tried...........

Their general data states their paint is heat resistant to 60W for however that translates to our 12v bulb temps.

They did send me their SDS which states their paint is "2-methoxypropanol" which I'm not familiar with.

Here is his contact info to their head Lab-Tech, and maybe they have the info now:
ibrahimovic@аhaussmann.com>

This company Ahaussman in Germany seems like the European competitor for theatrical supplies much like Rosco is in the U.S. for many years:


Ahuassmann: Mfg. for Hatolite Bulb Paint:
https://www.ahaussmann.com/en/produkte/hatolite-light-bulb-lacquer/


I do want to mention in my extensive research, I did also come acorss another bulb-paint, by a German chemical company called CLOU, but it's only rated for 25W, and sold thru this distributor Conrad. But I found no source or way to get it to the U.S:
https://www.conrad.com/o/bulb-paint-1201031


I hope this can help in some way for a source to tint bulbs that are not available in certain colors!

 

[-Virgil-]

I would not put much trust in a product like this to work well or hold up acceptably in automotive service. Like the Rosco Colorine, it's intended for theatrical usage. That's light-duty usage, typically for relatively short durations, on physically large bulbs where the bulb wall runs relatively cool because it's far from the filament. Even some of the coatings that were purpose-designed for factory application on the smaller, hotter automotive bulbs have a hard time going the distance -- they fade, crack, peel before the filament fails. That's why there are still bulbs made of the expensive amber glass.

Plus, you'd have to buy a bottle of orange and a bottle of yellow and mix them to arrive at an amber color...and you'd have to hope the bottles you get are reasonably fresh, haven't been sitting around on a shelf for years.

So all this would add up to a big expense and a messy hassle, to arrive at an end result probably not as good as (certainly not better than) just buying amber bulbs off the shelf.

Also, your attitude about hazardous material shipping and handling isn't a mature or appropriate one. Those fees and charges exist for a good reason; they aren't "inflated". Hazardous materials are hazardous! To avoid accidents and incidents that can cause real injuries, real damages, and real deaths, they require special extra care in handling, and that's what the fees go to pay for.

they had someone who was going to ship it too me and fudge the paper-work to get it here for a about $30, but that person was fired

There, see? The rules exist because the hazards are real, not an "inflated" matter to be "fudged" away. False declaration is a crime, and that person must have known better, now they're out of a job.

 

[Cadchris]

Thanks Virgil for that explanation. I never knew this gent was doctoring the paper-work, until the other reps had told me about it a year later when I was going to order a bottle, and they said it would now cost them 800 Euro just to hire a company to do the paper-work, and it was the distributor FLINTS who quoted me 510.00 British Pounds to get 1 bottle delivered......so that was shocking that there seems to be companies who they need to hire to do dangerous-goods paper-work for shipping. I guess it must be some sort of an export broker. I don't know.

I'm cautiously asking since I can't find any info on the forum if this was ever discussed.

"Ron Francis Brite Bulbs"?

(50/14cp) 1157 clear replacement?
https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=B-1077

(50/14cp) 1157 Amber replacement?
https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=B-1077A

Other bulbs.....
https://www.ronfrancis.com/products.asp?dept=94

 

[-Virgil-]

All the lighting so-called "upgrades" I've ever seen from Ron Francis have been, at best, without any real merit. Many (maybe most, maybe all) of them are unsafe and/or fraudulent. These you linked are good examples of that.

 

[Cadchris]

Good to know.....thanks.

 

[Cadchris]

Were the "Bob Drake Bulbs" of the same rating, and these one's by CandlePower Inc, (who's now out of business and was sometimes referred to on the forum as a source) all come from the same bulb source and are they also NOT recommended just in case I come across old inventory floating around?
https://web.archive.org/web/20170509222259/http://store.candlepower.com/11subrhi2bu.html

Also, I got an e-mail from a company that I found and contacted a few weeks ago who makes a very expensive glass adhesion promoter if there's ever an Amber tint or other color found to coat bulbs in a unique situation.....they also recommended House of Kolor Kandy Urethanes if they have the correct tinted amber......just thought I'd pass this along:
https://glasspaint.com/shop/glassprimer-glass-surface-molecular-activator/
https://glasspaint.com/gp083-molecular-activator-primer-product-data-sheet-pds/

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Were the "Bob Drake Bulbs" of the same rating, and these one's by CandlePower Inc, (who's now out of business and was sometimes referred to on the forum as a source) all come from the same bulb source and are they also NOT recommended just in case I come across old inventory floating around?

The Candlepower, Inc bulbs are probably the same ones. Notice how neither Ron Francis nor CPI even have a real photo of the bulb, but the same specs? Looks mighty sus.

Also, I got an e-mail from a company that I found and contacted a few weeks ago who makes a very expensive glass adhesion promoter if there's ever an Amber tint or other color found to coat bulbs in a unique situation.....they also recommended House of Kolor Kandy Urethanes if they have the correct tinted amber......just thought I'd pass this along

The product data sheet doesn't describe its temperature resistance-- and the MSDS is password-protected which is pretty darn silly. People have the right to know that information, why lock it behind a password (other than to farm contact information or attempt to just hide how nasty the stuff is that's in it).

That adhesion promoter isn't going to be any good if it cooks right off when the bulb is lit up.

 

[Cadchris]

I e-mailed that company who makes the Glass Paint Primer and they said it's good up to 1200F.

I also asked for the password/MSDS and they said it's only for purchasers......oh well, never had that happen.

This stuff must be from AREA-51.

 

[Cadchris]

I may as well ask..........what is it??????
Something new, or something "known", or something from beyond?

Each description carries the Stanley name:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-A4...917978?hash=item1c768b319a:g:N5wAAOSwrrBefUo7

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EWNWHRK/?tag=cpf0b6-20

In the 2nd photo there's an indication and arrow pointing to the signal lamp housing on the car, and also carries the Stanley name at the bottom in the 2nd photo on the back of the blister-pack:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXDN8E6/?tag=cpf0b6-20


O.K......so it's a division of Stanley:
http://stanley-raybrig.com/?__CAMCI...&__CAMVID=wpmDEBhdqA&_c_d=1&_ct=1613047153233

pg. 10 of 20 for the PDF (catalog pg. 15) confirms #31 A48225W = 12V 35w/5w Bay15d S25:
http://stanley-raybrig.com/assets/pdf/bulbcatalog.pdf


Is this a safe "Pumped Up" 1157 ??????????

I wonder if there's a Hi-Performance Amber version buried somewhere in their catalog............

 

[-Virgil-]

That's primarily used for combination front position/cornering lights. It has an opaque grey patch on the front of the bulb, large enough to block direct view of the filament through a pretty wide range of view angles...which also means in a reflector-type lamp you'd lose the central "punch" luminance, and in a fresnel-type lamp you'd lose almost all your luminance. Plus, the 35w filament has a short lifespan, which is not a problem in the very intermittent use case of a cornering lamp, but in functions that get greater use it would start to be a problem.

What is it that you're trying to do, anyway?

 

[Cadchris]

Well, here's the short version as I "cut n' paste in haste"!

I'm trying to do a few different things that's been on my mind for a while on my new 90 Brougham I bought.

First, I was just wondering if I could find something out there "brighter" to also share here just in case this Stanley/RAYBRIG bulb was un-known to you guys, to use for my front signals vs. the Candlepower HP1157 (ton's still out there but not a good bulb????) or using a HONDA/Stanley 3496 (& if I find an acceptable amber-bulb-dye (or) coat the front signal lens in the VANS lens paint often referred to here as an option) and also use this brighter Stanley/Raybrig bulb I discovered with a shrouded-top if I convert to the 80-81 rear brake/tail-light housing that has a solid red lens.

I really like the early 80-81 Fleetwood/Deville jeweled angular lens...

I have many photos of these lens's lit-up and side/back views that I need to post to a photo-host site.
Can you advise me which is the best site to use?

I just wouldn't want even more of a bulb hot-spot seen thru the lens of these early housings since they have very shallow housing buckets for the 80-81 (w/o the center accent) that ran from 80-89 (82-89 with center accent) (vs.) the 90-92 that still has a visual bulb hot-spots in the lens.

I want to see if I can achieve a uniform look to the light in the housing like modern day designs.

........... I thought I read here on the forum a few times where you guys stated something to the technical explanation that there was never any usable light coming out of the top of the bulb in a reflector housing; if I am interpreting correctly but now there's a new issue with this concept of "central punch luminance".

That's a new one that I never read about here.

I wanted to prevent the bulb hotspot seen thru the lens by using that top-coated, brighter Stanley/Raybrig bulb , but now, if I'm catching on, there's going to be a shadow over the bulb-area seen thru the lens from the reflected light from the reflector housing which can't shine thru the bulb top if it's got that shrouded coating?????????
I think I get it.......right?

Unless an un-shrouded bulb is needed for the tail light optics to function correctly and also for the front signal housings too. So, I think what you're telling me is the Raybrig will not be anything to consider as an option?

I wonder if that top-coating can be partially polished off over the center or polished in a way to allow the reflected light thru, but not cause either a bulb hot-spot, or bulb shadow......or polished off completely and coat the top in another type of RED heat-resistant bulb paint that I'm hung-up on for years now in yet another application....

I'm certain that the 90-92 has a few layers of lens diffuser's which lessen the bulb hot-spot vs. just the single optic lens on the 80-89. I won't know til' I buy some junk one's and take them apart just for Show n Tell purposes......and in hopes for your expert analysis.

 

[Ofelas]

Curiosity prompts me to ask - which would be brighter on minor/major -

A Honda 3496 through a factory amber lens or a good 2357NA like the GE/Tungsram through a factory clear lens?

Both on Dodge pickups; '81 vs a '91.

 

[-Virgil-]

That's too many variables to get a usable answer. I could have faulty recall, but I think the '81 and '91 Dodge trucks use completely different lamps, not just clear/amber versions of the same lens. Also, there's a wide range of amber lenses -- some are much darker/lower transmissivity than others.

 

[Ofelas]

You are correct; the earlier trucks use a bezel that surrounds the headlamp, and has amber lenses at the bottom of the trim.

The later trucks with clear lenses are standalone reflector/lens lamp units.

I'll pull one of the earlier trucks housings & check whether the reflector/housing shapes are similar to the later trucks.

Pics of the clear lenses & housings from the later trucks attached -