Milling machine advice

[kuksul08]

Hey everyone,
It's been a while since I've posted. I've received great info here before when buying my lathe and have a couple questions.

I'm looking at picking up a Tormach 1100 mill with a full set of accessories. It has tooling (TTS with collets), chinese mill sets (corner radius, end, and ball end), 8 inch 4th axis, automatic tool changer, controller, software, pneumatic drawbar, etc. Basically every option you can get except for the high speed engraving spindle. Total amounts to about $22k new.

I went and looked at it today, it worked great. A little surface rust since it's been sitting for so long. The axes moved smoothly without any issues though, and the spindle was nice and solid and quiet.

He's asking $16k for it, but the price may be flexible. I also need to account for rigging cost.

My primary use is prototyping and small aluminum, plastic, and steel parts. What do you think of this price and this machine in general?

Also, I am trying to figure out how to rig this machine to get it home. I got a quote of $3500!! to ship it home. I have a truck, flatbed trailer, and tractor. The mill has the mounting bracket for central lifting. So I should only need a forklift to lift it onto my trailer right? Any recommendations here, particularly in the bay area?

I've been dreaming about owning a CNC for a long time. After researching people keep saying to buy used 80's/90's equipment for the same price, but it seems like they require a lot more work to fix/clean up, require 3 phase, lack support, and are just more than I actually need. Opinions?

 

[gadget_lover]

I don't know much about that machine. I would suggest that you have a professional rigger put it on your flatbed. The last time I looked they charged by the hour per man. Moving a 1/2 ton mill 8 miles was about $700, IIRC.

Local companies ( search drayage, rigging and crane) ;

http://www.lawsoninc.com/ (no direct experience)

http://www.hattons.com/ (I've used their services, and was impressed)
​

Dan

 

[kuksul08]

Thanks for the recommendations Dan. That's what I'm leaning toward - if I can have someone put it on my trailer I can do the rest. I'm wondering if I can bypass the rigging company and get any commercial moving company with a forklift to do the job.

This is the mill: www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_1100.html

I think it was actually recommended to me here on the forum a couple years ago. It's an american design, made in china, assembled in the US.

 

[precisionworks]

Don't know anything about that particular machine but generally a used machine will sell for about half of new - and that depends on the three C's ... condition, condition, condition.

If you've never rigged & moved a top heavy machine try to find someone to help you who has. They are easy to tip.

 

[gadget_lover]

Thanks for the recommendations Dan. That's what I'm leaning toward - if I can have someone put it on my trailer I can do the rest. I'm wondering if I can bypass the rigging company and get any commercial moving company with a forklift to do the job.

The problem with a commercial moving company with a forklift is that the people may know less about rigging than you do. They will still tell you that they are an expert. :) When my buddy and I moved my mill with a rental truck my friend's brother helped. He was a retired trucker and knows about securing loads. We thought he knew, but we were wrong. He almost pulled the tie-downs out of the fiberglass truck wall. He almost toppled it off the lift gate. By the time I was done I'd spent close to $500 anyway, (IIRC) and had a few more grey hairs.

I'd say that $1000 is not a large amount to pay in order to get a $16,000 tool safely moved. If you are 100% sure that you can secure it to a pallet or skid without losing it, it might work out. If you have any doubts I'd call the riggers.

Dan

 

[kuksul08]

Good advice. I 'rigged' my lathe and got it installed at home. It was so stressful, but multiple chain binders and tie-downs later it was safe and sound.

A friend told me of a company who rigged, transported, and installed a big lathe from LA to SF for $1600. I'll post their info here once I get it. $180/hr.

 

[kuksul08]

Well I ended up transporting the machine myself. It wasn't easy at all. We had to remove the machine from the base/stand in order to get it through the doorway at the pick-up location. There was also a step to get down.

We used a combination of a pallet jack, moving bar, and engine hoist. Lots of chain, chain binders, and ratcheting tie-downs. Also since the engine hoist wouldn't straddle the base, we had to crib the machine up on wooden blocks. Total time was 6 hours including a 1.5 hour drive. Damages include one bruised finger.

Lessons learned include: trailer weight should be forward biased but only slightly. We had the weight too far forward, but it ended up driving alright. Also, saran wrap doesn't work well as the industrial wrapping material.

 

[wquiles]

Please keep us posted as you get it back together in your shop :)

 

[kuksul08]

I am working on cleaning up all the tooling right now that came with it. A lot of chinese junk, but it's perfect to learn on before switching to some quality carbide bits.

It's mostly just dirty all over, but nothing a rag and elbow grease won't fix and get it looking good as new. I'll have some pictures up as I make progress!

 

[themayor]

what did you end up paying? heard alot of good things about that machine

 

[kuksul08]

I paid about 2/3 of the price when new, which considering the condition is a real steal I think. Not a single nick or defect in the table. And everything cleaned up nicely.

Here's a pic.

It's totally awesome. I have a project I'm working on and will post pics when I get it done.

Let me just say, I have a new respect for CNC machinists. The whole process is NOT easy at all like I thought it would be. I had to learn a lot and there is still tons to learn.

 

[Ribet69]

Where are you in the Bay Area? I am in San Ramon and have some high speed steel tin coated if you want some I will give them to you. Just let me know.

Mike

 

[gadget_lover]

If you want to give away tooling, I'm just down the road in Pleasanton. :) kuksul08 is way down south.


Daniel

 

[precisionworks]

... have some high speed steel tin coated if you want some I will give them to you. Just let me know.

Mike

Welcome to the best place of CPF (if you like to make chips).

On the TiN coated HSS tools, what are they? Most of the TiN or AlTiN coat tooling has a carbide substrate while most HSS tools are uncoated.

 

[8steve88]

Just saw this thread, I've been watching John and Erik Grimsmo, they are the brothers who make the Norseman and Thor knives. I've been watching since the first episode they were using a smaller CNC machine then went with the Tormach, it looks very similar to yours.
Here's the link to his YouTube channel http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8SC-01ZKmzTIa2Usn6fexQ I think he gets the Tormach about week 25 or 26, he's up to the 70's now.
There's a lot of good advice in his videos, worth a watch anyway, I haven't even got a workshop now but used to be a wood machinist, anything like CNC is fascinating to me and I find it pleasing to watch his development into a very proficient machinist.

 

[kuksul08]

Hey Mike thanks a lot for the offer that is very generous. I've actually got a pretty good assortment of bits that came with the machine. Full HSS sets and I've supplemented it with just a few carbide gems. What exactly do you have? Dan actually helped me out with one of my first light projects and he would probably enjoy them as well.

Dan I've since moved up to the south bay. It's where all the jobs are and it's still sorta nice.

Steve I have watched most of his videos, they are very helpful. I also found a plethora of videos from Tormach themselves. I love the support they offer. I can call and someone always picks up who speaks perfect english and is very technically inclined who can help answer my questions.

 

[gt40]

Congratulations on a capable machine. That tool changer is nice too. Post some video once you it running.