My Budget 007-Submariner Project

[guncollector]

Sure the "new" James Bond (Pierce Brosnan) wears Omegas, and the one before him (Roger Moore) wore digital Seikos, but the original--and classic if you will--007 (Sean Connery) wore a Rolex Submariner on an (undersized--was Q short on funds?) NATO 5-stripe strap.

Now, I'm not really a big fan of the newer, John Woo-style 007 movies. To be truthful, I kind of lost interest around the time of Roger Moore--relegating my 007-watching to late-night cable re-runs. It is also safe to say I'm not really into the 007-watches in those flicks either.

But, that original Submariner that the suave, tough, even chauvanistic, cigarette-smoking, passenger-seat-ejecting, Sean Connery wore has always struck a cord with me.

Now, if money were no object, I could fork out $3500-4000 for a Rolex Submariner, take off the oyster bracelet (which was about $500-800 itself), and put in place a NATO 5-stripe watchband ($16) to recreate the the look for myself. Unfortunately, I have already a stable of fine watches, and were I to remain happy married--or married at all--such a lavish expenditure on a whim is out of the question.

So, what's a guy to do?

Well, here was one option that I had previously owned for about $150.00. It was in the form of a Zeno ZN-001 "Explorer". It was close but not exactly the "Submariner"-look, missing the black bezel for one and arabic numerals inplace of the circular hour markers.

I liked it for a while, but two--well three--things eventually led me to sell it: a) the case diameter was too small even for my small-med sized wrists (only about 36mm), b) no date display (yeah, I know the original didn't have date, but we must make some allowances for modern living), and c) the Japanese Miyota movement (a bit noisy, and +/- 5-10 minutes/month). Alas, I sold it to buy some other toy--probably flashlights.

Anyway, the other day, while browsing Timezone.com, I found a listing on a good deal on a like-new, used, Sandoz Submariner. Here's a pic.

Now, I can again have a budget 007-Submariner--but this time with; larger case diameter (40mm), date display/bubble, and the venerable ETA-2824 Swiss movement. Additionally, it looks much more akin the original 007 watch. But, the best was that it only cost me $125.00 shipped (MSRP is $199.99)!

I also now have my NATO 20mm 5-stripe, black/grey, watchband now on order (this time only $16.00 shipped). Hopefully the two will arrive soon, and I can post up pics of my "budget 007-Submariner" soon. Total investment will be under $141.00!

 

[bigcozy]

Update on us on how you like the Sandoz. I always thought the Ollech and Wajs M series watches would make fine "stand ins" for a Submariner.

Now for a story that will make you sick. In 1986 I bought a older Submariner from a guy for $600. In 87 I traded it for a Ruger Super Blackhawk and a $100. Seemed like a good deal at the time, but that watch is probably worth around $1800-2000 now.

 

[lhz]

Here's mine. I used a Bulova instead of Sandoz. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Notice I went for an undersized strap as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[guncollector]

lhz-

You have excellent taste.

You 007-Submariner "tribute" is very nicely done. Great execution.

BTW, did you do the undersized strap on purpose? Or was it a matter of availability?

 

[lhz]

I got an undersized strap(18mm) on purpose to recreate the look. Sean was actually wearing a 16mm strap in the movie(look carefully at your photo), but I thought 18mm was better for me as I have watches with 18mm lugs should I choose not to use the strap with the Bulova in the future. Too bad no company makes a clone of Sean's sub, which has no crown guard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[GJW]

Birds of a feather and all that.....

"In the Ian Fleming novels, Bond is referred to a few times as wearing a Rolex watch. It is briefly described as a "Rolex Oyster Perpetual on an expanding metal bracelet" and as having "big phosphorus numerals." While most of the Bond movies in the 1960's through 1980's featured 007 wearing a Rolex Submariner, there really is nothing in the original novels that indicates that the Submariner was the watch the author had in mind. The big phosphorus numerals actually indicates the watch was likely a military-style Rolex that predated the Submariner."

"While Fleming could get away with not specifying a particular Rolex model in the novels, one did need to be chosen when filming began on the first Bond film. The choice of the Submariner for the movies appears to have been more a matter of expediency than anything else. When filming began on Dr. No in 1961, Rolex was unwilling to donate a watch for Sean Connery to wear. To avoid delaying the filming, producer Albert Broccoli handed over his personal Rolex, a Submariner, to fill the role. You can see in both Dr. No and Goldfinger that Sean Connery sometimes wears the watch on a black and gray striped NATO-style cloth strap that is clearly narrower than the wider-than-common lugs on the Submariner."

On 17 September 1998, Christie's conducted an auction of James Bond memorabilia. Lot No. 130 was the actual Rolex Submariner used in "Live And Let Die". Rolex Reference 5513 and case No. 2912634. Its movement had been removed for customisation and the indices on the black dial had been pierced. Estimated price was between £4000 and £6000. It eventually sold for £21,850.

 

[guncollector]

Fleming, while a masterful writer of intrigue, was not equally adept with the technical details of Bond's hardware.

These days, however, its the "film 007" that has become entrenched in the public's eye--definitely not the Ian Fleming character. I'd guess that only 1 in 20 Bond film goers even know who Ian Fleming was. And, of those 1 in 20, perhaps 1 in 20 has read any of the Ian Fleming novels--or even the John Gardner novels.

[ QUOTE ]
On 17 September 1998, Christie's conducted an auction of James Bond memorabilia. Lot No. 130 was the actual Rolex Submariner used in "Live And Let Die". Rolex Reference 5513 and case No. 2912634. Its movement had been removed for customisation and the indices on the black dial had been pierced. Estimated price was between £4000 and £6000. It eventually sold for £21,850.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, to each his own. But, you gotta have more money than brains to evaluate a semi-significant movie-prop for that kind of stupid money.

Now, perhaps I could see an original, functional, movie-prop Walther pistol fetching that amount.

 

[guncollector]

Okay, as requested, here are pics of my completed "Budget 007-Submariner Project".

Here, with another Bond tribute, a Walther pistol, in the background...

Close-up

All in all, I think it turned out okay. I've been wearing the watch for the last few days, and its quite comfortable and light with the NATO strap. So far, its kept excellent time, having gained only about 7 seconds in a week. Again, total cost, less than $150.00.

Enjoy.

 

[Phaserburn]

Isn't Bond's weapon of choice the Walther PPK? Books and movies.

 

[guncollector]

Ah, I'm glad you asked.

Actually, Bond, has a number of firearms provided by Q. Originally, he's carried a S&W .38 special (no model # specified), and a Beretta .25 ACP.

Eventually, some of Fleming's more firearms-knowledgeable acquaintances pointed out the anemic caliber of his Beretta .25 ACP choice, and so Bond quicky was provided a Walther PPK (IIRC, in .32 ACP, not .380 as more commonly found in this model in the USA).

Short story, after WWII, the Germans were severely restricted in the number and variety of small arms they were permitted to produce. To get around these restrictions, Walther moved much of its production of Walther PPK-type pistols to Mulhouse, France (at the Manurhin manufacturing facility). There, Manurhin manufactured "PPK's" for both German domestic consumption and export. The pistols are for all intent and purposes identical--with the exception being that the Manurhin-badged versions were named "PP-32's".

I know this is all more information than you want to know, but I was just being a firearms geek in remaining as technically accurate as possible... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Phaserburn]

Interesting. My brother bought a PPK maybe 10 years ago. I'm sure it is badged "PPK". I remember because I teased him mercilessly about thinking he was being 007. I was thinking the PP-32 was the Walther PP; is it?

 

[guncollector]

Oops, sorry, you're right. Brain fart on my part.

I shoud've said that the Manurhin PP-32 is the equivalent to the Walther PP--not PPK. The PPK is identical to its larger brother, the PP, with the exception of a slightly shorter barrel and grip (to facilitate concealability).

To make things more confusing, the US-import version of the PPK is actually the PPK/s. Due to the arcane and jurisdictional import rules of the BATF, the PPK had to be modified to qualify for import approval. The shorter barrel of the PPK was retained, but the grip had to be lengthened to to PP-size. The modified pistol retained the nomenclature of PPK/s, and came in both .32 ACP and .380 ACP (most popular in the US) amont others.

 

[geepondy]

Oh, I'd love to own a Rolex Submariner! I guess I will have to stick with my Omega Seamaster Pro but I don't think I'd buy it again as I don't really like the skeleton hands. For either watch, despite not being a "purist", I would be willing to substitute a quartz perpetual movement.

 

[bigcozy]

Walther made a .22LR version of the PPK as well didn't they? Movie Bond carries a Walther P99 and wears a Omega Seamaster now. The Bond movies have become a tribute to product placement, everything in them is a commercial with a paid sponsorship to the producers. Walther, Omega, BMW, Aston Martin (Ford), almost too much to stomach. If they would put Sophie Marceau in all the new Bond movies I would forgive them.

 

[guncollector]

[ QUOTE ]
bigcozy inquires:
Walther made a .22LR version of the PPK as well didn't they?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, in addition to .32 ACP (7.65mm) and .380 ACP (9mm Kurz), in the "among others" calibers of the PP-series chamberings are: .22 LR and .25 ACP (6.35mm).

Also, in .22LR pocket pistols, Walther made an even smaller pistol than the PPK(PPK/s) in the Walther TPH. It was a very nice, albeit pricey little pocket piece.

 

[bigcozy]

Never seen the .25 cal version. Is the TPH the one Nornico made a copy of some years ago?

 

[FC.]

What is wrong with Seamaster?

 

[bigcozy]

If you are referring to my post, there is nothing wrong with the Seamaster. It is just a promotional tie-in to the movie, like other products. Brosnan is also a paid spokesman for Omega. The Seamaster is among the finest watches made by almost anyone's standards. Watch snobs will sometimes turn up their nose because of the Swatch ownership, but I haven't heard anyone question quality.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

guncollector,is the ETA 2824 Swiss movement used in the Seiko Diver automatic watches, as well as the Sandoz Submariner?

Bill

 

[rajanf1]

Seiko Divers use the Seiko 7S26 movements and I haven't seen a Seiko using a swiss movement. The 2836 Swiss movements are starting to appear in newer Sandoz watches.