My Fenix L2P just exploded!?!?!?

SilverFox

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I believe I have mentioned this a few hundred times before...

When using rechargeable cells recharge often.

I realize that there are situations when you have to run them all the way down, but this should not be considered "normal practice."

Imbalance effects all multi cell applications, and applies to all chemistries.

Tom
 

Bones

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If this happens in another 2xAA light without a rubber tailcap constructed in the same way as a fenix, you wont notice the pressure unless it's so high that the tailcap shoots off when you unscrew it ;)

Aah, so it's a safety feature ...

Still, it's probably better than having a light 'venting without flames' when you go to change out the batteries, and potentially losing a tailcap at the worst possible moment.
 

zipplet

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I personally don't believe they deliberately designed it this way, but it does act as a safety feature and fenix do it with all of their clicky lights. I hope it stays that way as it's good IMO :)

In other multi cell lights, if you notice you need more force than normal when you start to unscrew the tailcap, the best bet is to carefully loosen until you get to the O-ring, then turn very slowly so the gas comes out slowly rather than the tailcap shooting off. However, I've never had this problem before.
 

Cydonia

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It's because the regulation circuit design used by Fenix in the AA lights will keep pulling the cells down till they vent. If this hypothesis is correct… it should be repeatable. Place 2 nice new freshly charged AA NiMh cells into a L2D and leave it on turbo. Come back in a few hours and find your NiMh cells damaged and the tailcap ballooned out from gas venting. Simple experiment to try...
 

SilverFox

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Hello Cydonia,

Not really so easy...

First you have to create a slight imbalance in the cells. With the CR123 testing that was done, it took 20 - 25% imbalance to get them to vent. I am not sure what the ratio would be with NiMh cells. With less imbalance, or more imbalance, venting did not occur.

Tom
 

UnknownVT

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It's because the regulation circuit design used by Fenix in the AA lights will keep pulling the cells down till they vent. If this hypothesis is correct… it should be repeatable. Place 2 nice new freshly charged AA NiMh cells into a L2D and leave it on turbo. Come back in a few hours and find your NiMh cells damaged and the tailcap ballooned out from gas venting. Simple experiment to try...

Er - sorry, Fenix did not design this circuit to deliberately vent batteries - it's simply because the head is suitable for 1x AA and 2x AA cells - which means it can handle as low as 0.9V - fine for 1x AA but not so fine for 2x AA - think of any 2x AA light there is the possibility they will drain battries down until depleted - which means any imbalance may lead to venting in NiMH. The possibility exists for ANY multi cell in series light.

Also venting does NOT always occur - as there are plenty of people who use NiMH in Fenix L2x series as well as other 2x AA lights without much problems.

please see this thread -

Unevenly drained batteries
specifically starting with Post #19 , (#20 , #21 , #22 , #25 , #27 )

where zipplet experiemented with 2x AA NiMH in a Fenix L2?
 
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Lightening

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Saw a similar thread a few months back. Fenix Light. Just a thought - airtight tube - pressure change due to temperature/altitude (you said you travel) ?? Maybe another explanation? Thoughts?
 

tdhg566

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Thanks for the suggestion. The ballooning happens even after venting the tube body.
 

tdhg566

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A small pin Prick in the rubber tailcap boot fixes this

After making two small pinholes in the sides of the tailcap boot the problem seems to have disappeared. Now I just need to find another strobe for my next scuba diving trip :laughing:. Thanks again to everyone for the help. It's been a fascinating discussion.
 

zipplet

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So you know, the problem *appears* to be gone but it's still there! The expansion is caused by one of the cells venting gasses due to reverse charging near the end of the cycle. The cells will be damaged eventually.
 

Hooked on Fenix

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The tailcap popping off the Fenix lights is a design flaw. NiMH batteries occasionally vent hydrogen, but this doesn't always mean the battery is bad. Waterproof dive flashlights such as Princeton Tech, Streamlight, Pelican, and many other brands put platinum catalyst pellets in the lights to absorb the hydrogen so they don't build up pressure and explode. Fenix lights don't have these catalyst pellets, so they build up pressure because of the hydrogen can't escape. The rubber tailcap boot launching off does act like a pressure release to get rid of the hydrogen. The alternative is worse. Imagine leaving an L2D CE on turbo for a couple hours using NiMH batteries. The hydrogen would build up in the light and the heat built up in the body might ignite the hydrogen once it blasts its way out of the light and reacts with oxygen in the air. At least with the tailcap boot coming off, your whole light doesn't explode. Now we know why Fenix gives a spare tailcap boot with each light. If you're worried about the problem, you have four options. You can bring a spare boot or tailcap with you. You can bring a spare body and tailcap with you like the one that comes in the Christmas power pack. Think of it as a spare battery holder. You can open the light every once in a while to let out the gas before the problem gets too bad. The last option is to glue or epoxy a catalyst pellet inside the tailcap.
 

Mr Happy

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It hasn't been said enough times in this thread, so I'll just say it another time. If your NiMH batteries vent gas (be it hydrogen or whatever), they are being damaged. Pricking holes in the Fenix tailcap is just disabling the damage warning indicator and allowing you to damage your batteries in blissful ignorance. It's a bit like taking the low oil warning light out of your car because you don't like it coming on.

Any hydrogen that comes out of an NiMH cell is a loss of inventory that will never go back and never be replaced. NiMH cells are designed with a very finely adjusted balance of contents and there is no excess of hydrogen in there to be lost without penalty. Once some is lost the performance is reduced.
 

Bullzeyebill

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I would venture a guess that it is not hydrogen that is venting, and if you notice this problem is only being reported for Fenix AA lights. Now there must be thousands of other lights out there, that are AA, that are also having this problem. So many damaged AA NiMh batteries out there that have lost hydrogen and are damaged, and unsafe to use, or at least useless. Chevrofreak noticed this problem with a Fenix light, and displaced a picture of a very ballooned rubber tailcap. He did not think that the batteries were damaged, or at least made no comment about them being damaged. iI will recheck his post to be sure.

Bill
 

Mr Happy

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I never said "unsafe to use", or "useless". Just "damaged", as in suffering reduced performance. The amount of damage per event may be small, but it is cumulative. Do it enough times and you will be able to measure the reduction in capacity.

Please take my word for it that NiMH cells are not meant to vent gases of any sort during use or charging. You may find that one or two occasions cause no great harm, but persistent operation with venting will cause the batteries to degrade faster then normal.

Fenix lights may have caused this issue to be visible due to the hermetic sealing, but that doesn't mean they are the only lights that might cause venting. The cause is over discharge of a multi-cell device such that one or more cells are being reverse charged. This could happen with any multi-cell light that is allowed to run down too low.
 

f22shift

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i had this problem with my l2d with the bubble rubber cap. they usually go back into shape.

i made the mistake of lending out my l2d which was on turbo to my wife, who then lend it out to someone else who ran it down completely:mecry:. the rubber cap was huge and there was no way to press the button. i unscrewed the tailcap and it went back to normal.

regarding the overdischarged batteries i would give them another chance.
even though i had a completely discharged duracells, they've seemed to come back to life with capacities over 2450mah. i used the 'refresh' on my la crosse. i wouldn't throw them out. it's worth a try.
 
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