Need Help for Hid & Led Flashlight

[burak]

Dear Friends,

I have read many forums ,but I mixed up a little :confused:

I need help for flashlights

The problem is I have to order about 400 pcs flashlights for hunters in Turkiye; the main think is
the torchs must be 4000 Lumens+, but I have not decided to choose Led or Hid Xenon
what can you advice me to buy led or xenon hid?
some forums says the led is good but the range is 500 meters and 1.5 hours battery life.
some says hid xenon has range over or 1000 meter and 35 minutes battery life
Is it true?

What is your opinion? Which is the correct way to choose a flashlight
I realy need an urgent info

with my best regards

 

[CarpentryHero]

There are great thrower LeD's that will reath that distance with out being 4000 lumens.
Olight, Crelant, Fenix, Deft(saablaster), and many other LED lights will reach that distance with over 1 hour of runtime.

My Stanley HID is a 35 watt has a little over 3000 lumens but only 30 min runtime (if I'm lucky)

I'm not much into throwers, but for throw you should be looking for high Lux numbers, and not worry about a lot of lumens without an aspheric lens so that you have useable spill

 

[burak]

Do you think Led lights are better to hid xenon?

 

[CarpentryHero]

For run time and reliability, absolutely for over all brightness, hid and short arc will get more lumens and it'll throw.
The 100watt led is 2" by 2" and all flood unless you get a huge reflector and heat sinc ;) 8k lumens.
I take LeD over Incan or hid for reliability and durability

 

[StarHalo]

By the criteria you've given, 4000+ lumens, your only option is HID - look into Titanium Innovations L50 and L70 models, which are 5000 and 7000 lumens respectively, each with at least 1000 meters of throw and an hour of runtime, in a very rugged package. This kind of output isn't cheap though, I hope your Turkish friends are prepared to spend generously..

 

[AnAppleSnail]

4000 lumens is very bright. That will look twice as bright (4x real output) as a US car headlamp, or about 8 times brighter than a 4D Mag Lite (100x real output). In a light designed for throw (A reflector about the size of a spread hand) you will be able to clearly see to great distance. With my 35W HID spotlight, putting around 2000 lumens in a tight spot, I need binoculars to see as far as the light reaches.

In a smaller reflector (About the size of a Coca-Cola can), the 4000 lumens will make a blinding-bright 'pool' of light nearby, but not reach very far. For hunting I think you will want throw, but you don't necessarily need 4000 lumens to reach a great distance.

If you describe the usage scenario, we may be able to help you get something that fits your needs at a good budget. Lights that output 4000 lumens and throw well, while being durable and of good quality, will be about twice the size of a 2D Mag Lite (not so long though), and very expensive, well over $400 USD each.

 

[TEEJ]

What are the 400 hunters hunting for? Depending upon what the game is, some options might make more or less sense.

 

[burak]

I have a firm thats a pre order, I dont know what will they do ?
Also the price is important for me , I have searched a lot find the cheapest and the highest Lumen also battery life and the range is important

Can it be true or its fake ? I will order a sample first ,
Second option is link removed. see red banner at top of page what do you think about them ?

I realy dont think 3 leds will give 4000 lumens??

 

[StarHalo]

Can it be true or its fake ?

Nope, it's fake. A cheap Chinese light that is not at all reliable and might nudge 1000 lumens at best.

The only multi-thousand-lumen LED light I can think of offhand would be the Nitecore TM11, 2000 lumens; very good quality but it's a floodlight, very bright for maybe 200 meters.

4000 lumens with any kind of range at all is the HID realm, and you're looking at $500+ per unit for quality.

Bear in mind that 4000 lumens really is extremely bright, too bright for almost any application, you wouldn't be able to use it at all in an urban or suburban setting. The landing lights on commercial jets are just over 2000 lumens.

 

[burak]

So, it seems impossible to find 100 USD 4000 Lumen Torch .. There are many torches 4000, 5000 selling on ebay
who gives them permission to sell a fake products.

Then I have to look a cheapest solition for real 4000 Lumen

 

[StarHalo]

$100 for LED will net you 750 lumens, the Zebralight SC600. $100 for HID will net you 3500 lumens, the Stanley HID0109. Just off the top of my head, the cheapest 4000+ lumen off-the-shelf light would be the Titanium Innovations LX50, $450.

 

[LEDninja]

:welcome:
Can you edit your thread title to "Lights needed for hunting". I think we need experienced hunters for advice.

SKY-RAY-818-3xT6-Cree-XML-T6-5modes-4000-Lumens-Led-Flashlight-2x18650
UltraFire-4000lm-Lumen-3x-CREE-XML-XM-L-T6-LED-Flashlight-Torch-5-Mode-18650
what do you think about them ?

Do not buy them.
Those manufacturers take a 3*XR-E flashlight and just changed the LEDs to XM-L. Unfortunately while 2*18650 batteries can power up 3*XR-E they are insufficient to power up 3*XM-L. This is what happens with a badly designed light (wait for the pictures. They are a little slow loading):
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded
Different model same manufacturer.

for hunters in Turkiye
led is good but the range is 500 meters and 1.5 hours battery life.
some says hid xenon has range over or 1000 meter and 35 minutes battery life.
What is your opinion?

The HID with range over 1000 meters is that BIG thing on the chair. It is TOO HEAVY to take with you for hunting. (The LEDs are the lights on the table,)

LED can be 50 meters or it can be 500 meters. It depends on the reflector/optics as well as the LED.
Take a look at these pictures. Then tell us what kind of light you need. The wide beam or the very bright narrow beam. Both lights are LED. Same model LED. Same lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...BS-T-XR-E-R2-EZ900-Aspheric-First-Impressions

Which is the correct way to choose a flashlight

1) What kind of battery of you want to use?
1a) Disposible:
1a1) 1.5V Alkaline AA/C/D,
1a2) 3V Lithium CR123A. These are dangerous if you use more than one.
2) Rechargeable:
2a) 1.2V LSD NiMH AA/C/D,
2b) 3.6V Li-ion RCR123A. These are very dangerous. You have to follow safety procedures always. All you need is 1 out of 400 hunters to get careless and :poof:
2c) Lead acid. These come with the cheap xenon/HID lights.
-
2) What do you need the lights for? Hunting.
2a) How far do you need to see? (I do not go hunting. You have to tell me.
2b) How bright at that distance? A 100 watt light bulb is 1600 lumens. But it does not shine far. Take 2 lamps with 100W bulbs outside and turn them on. You will not see very far. So a lot lumens by itself is no good for hunting. You need the light to go far. The flashlight will either say lux or a distance. Those are the numbers you need to look for, not lumens.
-
3) What runtime do you need? The brighter the light the less runtime. 35 minutes of an HID is not enough for a night out. I guess the 3*XML lights you found is ~20 minutes. So I ask the question again - when you go out at night, how many hours do you stay out there? It is better to have a dimmer light than to have your battery die and try to find your way home in the dark. A long runtime backup light is very useful here.
-
4) How big and heavy can you put up with.
-
5) Do you need gun mounts?

Newbies always look for the brightest lights they can find. Often that is not suitable for their purpose.
Define purpose - runtime, MINIMUM brightness (how far can you see without binoculars not the maximum distance on a spec sheet) forget lumens, batteries you would like to use. How reliable you need the light.

The problem is I have to order about 400 pcs flashlights

Most retailers do not stock that many. Maybe you should contact the manufacturer.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

I have a firm thats a pre order, I dont know what will they do ?

I take it to mean that 400 people want to order these lights from you in Turkey? To give them the best value and service, you'll need the answers to our 'pick a light' questions from those who will use them. Now, if you find 400 suckers who will pay out thousands of dollars each to get the most powerful lights in the world, then good for you - but 'Most Powerful' is not the same as 'Best for the job.'

A do-everything light (8 hours runtime, thousands of lumens, and reach to hit distant mountains) costs, well, everything For example, a Polarion PH40, with enough extra cells to last the night, will run you around $3000+ retail. It's a professional searchlight-type light, weighs 4 pounds, and is popular with law-enforcement. Notably, they like to carry it and its spare cells in a car until they get where they're going. That is the price of a quality, 4000-lumen light with good reach. It is also a light powerful enough to read books across a valley with.

A more limited light (The same runtime, fewer lumens, and hundreds of yards of adequate light) can be had at a more acceptable price. Can you get information about how these lights would be used? That will help us to help you. Thank you!

 

[TEEJ]

Did the 400 hunters tell you they wanted 4,000 lumens?

The issue, again, is that Lumens are NORMALLY a lousy way to shop for a hunting light.

An ordinary light bulb in a lamp by your bed might produce 1,400 lumens for example, and 3 of them combined might produce 4,200 lumens.

Would a lamp with 3 of these bulbs be useful for hunting? - It WOULD give the ~ 4,000 lumens you asked for....and you could get it for maybe $25.

The problem is that the 4,200 lumens are going to just be in a ball of light surrounding the light....just like they are when you turn on the lamp by your bed.


For hunting, NORMALLY, you want to create LUX on a target. Lux is what happens when lumens hit the target...its how bright the TARGET looks to you.

If my target is 300 meters away, my bedside lamp is NOT going to make the target look very bright, in fact, the target will be invisible at that distance, despite the 4k+ lumens being emitted.

To SEE the target 300 meters away, I would need to FOCUS the lumens so that MOST OF THEM are being sent to the target, and NOT just making a ball of light around ME.

ALSO -

The prey can see the HUNTER when the hunter is in a ball of light.

If you've ever tried to look outside at night, with the lights on inside, you know its hard to see into the dark if you are IN light.


This all means that the REAL NUMBER you are looking for is LUX at a long distance, or the THROW of the light....NOT LUMENS.


To judge the throw of a light, you can see specifications such as the lux at 1 meter, etc. (The more, the better, for this purpose)

Essentially, how sharply focused is the beam. To shoot something 300 meters away, I might just need a small patch of light that is bright enough to allow aiming, and large enough to see the context/allow leading the target in motion, etc.

The "Lumens" will not tell you if that would happen, or not.

It would be like only looking at a truck's horsepower when you need it to pull a heavy load...and not looking at its TORQUE.


Food for thought.

:D

 

[burak]

Dear Friends,
First thank you all, you are all really helpfull,
I am happy to join in your forum

The real company is; a rifle brand will enter the Turkish marketing and wanted to make a promotion for 400 rifle,
They will give special offer for the first 400 rifle with torch.

With my first search, I have noticed The torch (wickedlasers) is very good for me,except the battery life also the dangeraus heat.
My specs also the rifle company owner wants, same brightness, much battery life and range like this product(The Torch)
If the product 4000 lumen for The torch product is fake, I will accept it,becouse the videos and pictures real seem cool.


With this range the company dealed max 100 USD each, I think I will continue looking with led torches,

The conditions for the Torch, must be rechargable, also weight maximum 1.2kg ,They dont want gun mount.

 

[BenChiew]

$100 for LED will net you 750 lumens, the Zebralight SC600. $100 for HID will net you 3500 lumens, the Stanley HID0109. Just off the top of my head, the cheapest 4000+ lumen off-the-shelf light would be the Titanium Innovations LX50, $450.

What is the brightest and longest throw single AA led?
How much would I need to pay?

TEEJ. Thanks for the crystal clear rundown. That corrected some of my own misconceptions.

 

[TEEJ]

OK, so what type of torch are they looking for then?

And, if its a give away/promotional item, do they care if its military grade-durable, are they looking for a "marketing/promotional" spec...or something the rifle buyers might actually use for many years to come, and serve some function other than helping to sell the rifle that first day?

IE: A long term, durable and functional light light will be great publicity years later too...as they will think of the brand and quality, rather than the cheap light they got as a throw-away promo item....

...but the reason people USE cheap promo items, its that they ARE CHEAPER, and represent less of a cost to use as a promotional item.

So - If you want cheap but bright, and don't mind "Chinese Lumens" as opposed to "ANSI Lumens", sure, you can get a Chinese light factory to sell you 400 lights for a song, and label the box with any lumen output you desire.

:whistle:


If you want it accurately labeled, and to be durable, etc...for less than $100 you can still find great LED lights, but, they will have REAL outputs, and not fake claims, etc...and, therefore, will not ADVERTISE as well IF lumens are the only buzzword.

To advertise them effectively, you would need to stress the QUALITY and the DURABILITY and that its a name brand, not some el cheapo knock-off that's made to look like the real thing.

If you want big promo numbers though, HID's do provide more promo number per $ - and they do put out a a lot of light...but they are very LARGE and HEAVY compared to the LED lights.

In some ways, a LARGE item can be perceived as a BIGGER PRIZE, which can work as a promo item at least...but increase the shipping/handling/storage overhead.

So - Which way do you want to go?

:party:

 

[StarHalo]

If the product 4000 lumen for The torch product is fake, I will accept it,becouse the videos and pictures real seem cool.

The Torch is indeed 4000 lumens, but it has no beam to speak of, it just emits a giant blob of light that's good for maybe 100 meters. The light was specifically designed to just set things on fire, not be used as a flashlight (it doesn't make sense to us, either.)

Your 1.2 kg weight limit is another problem, most HIDs are at least 2 kg.

It's sounding more and more like you would need a custom-made light; a larger LED light with an aspheric lens could meet your weight limit, and while it would be only a fraction of 4000 lumens, it would still be able to throw a narrow beam for well over 600 meters.

What is the brightest and longest throw single AA led?

The Xeno E03 XM-L running on a Li-ion/14500 AA-size cell will hit 500 lumens, and while it's not a thrower, the sheer amount of lumens gives it the ability to out throw most 1xAA lights.

Jetbeam is advertising a 650 lumen (on Li-ion/14500) 1xAA, but I haven't seen any reviews on it.

Be sure you thoroughly review and understand the safety and handling procedures for Li-ion cells before getting into them, they explode if mishandled.

 

[burak]

Dear Teej,

You are absulty right, the price range is very various; 1 Usd to 5000 Usd maybe more up to,but I prefer to buy maximum 100 USD
Also I prefer non brend which is more good (range,lumens,battery life) with a brand torch; which has proved it self.

The example I have given "The Torch" brend is really good for specs, except the heat and battery life. Also it will come 100 USD wholesale (I think)

I will look for Chineese torches and want to ask the forum is it worth?

 

[BenChiew]

Thanks StarHalo. I think I better stay away from those lithium.
I have a load of AA Eneloop 2000mah. Thinking of getting the best thrower from those batteries.