Need low power 30,000 lumens of work light

degarb

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I have been painting at all hours of day/night with halogens since 1990
. I quickly learned to minimize skips, working inside, a painter needs 1500 to 2000 watts of halogen (predating 1 watt luxeon headlamp use with lights), along with lanterning off each wall before moving tarps with one 500 watt light.

The halogens, though, have several drawbacks: constantly blowing bulbs (seems way worse now that "made in China"); too much current when used with an airless or other tool (tripping breakers); too hot in Summer; fire hazzard/ small halogen lights have a history of melting carpeting/kitchen flooring when kicked (or cord pulled) over on side.

I really would like a 300 to 400 watt florescent work light, or a 100+ watt led work light--with (I am guessing from reading here) 30,000 to 40,000 lumens. More compact, the better.

So, far I don't see anyone, even Sears, making an alternative to the halogen 500 watt light.

Is this the right category for this?
 
You can build yourself Florucent floodlights out of standard 120cm tubes (1800 lumens each), but as you see, you would need about 20 tubes per wall... that is not what i call portable...

No, take a look at the HID floodlights instead as monkeyboy proposed!
 
I'd recommend you HID - Metal Halide. 4 times better efficacy than halogen, 4 times longer "burn time" and pure white light (ok, so they are very little bluish) with very good color rendention. But it won't be as cheap as halogen.
 
x5 on the Metal Halide HID setups, a 400w MH bulb will put out what your looking for ~30,000 lumens, if you want to go brighter, the next step would be a 1000w bulb which puts out about 90,000 lumens.
 
x5 on the Metal Halide HID setups, a 400w MH bulb will put out what your looking for .30,000 lumens, if you want to go brighter, the next step would be a 1000w bulb which puts out about 90,000 lumens.

Wow!

Couple of questions: 1. Can these be purchased at a Brick and mortar store? 2. http://www.elights.com/phil400watme.html could this bulb be put in in a standard clip on relector? 3. Are most metal halide lights xenon? Are all xenon MH or HID? 4. What are things to avoid doing to avoid breakage or burnout of these lights? (As in, Lighting them in cold temps? How shock proof are they?) 5. I saw one light rating brightness lumens vs. optical lumens--what is that? 6. Is a 66 cri in the good range? (Sodium Pressure is out too bad a cri) 7. Why aren't all work lights MH? It seems a no brainer. 8. Is there a downside other than lower cri to MH? 9. I am assuming the heat byproduct of a 400 watt MH is same as the Halogen. Correct?

I will probably think of other questions later.
 
" http://www.elights.com/phil400watme.html could this bulb be put in in a standard clip on relector? "

I talked to the sales, they claim I need their $200 base/ ballast. But, as I understand the term "ballast" as just an offsetting weight. Is this recommendation just a limitation of their sales knowledge?

Obviously, I would prefer if this just screwed into a $14 clip on reflector (more portable too, quicker up and running time).
 
Wow!

Couple of questions: 1. Can these be purchased at a Brick and mortar store?

I think some do, but most of the time you will only find replacement bulbs or outdoor permanent fixtures meant to be mounted on a wall or light post.

2. http://www.elights.com/phil400watme.html could this bulb be put in in a standard clip on relector?

No HID bulbs require special fixtures and bases that are designed to not short out with the 5KV starting pulse.

3. Are most metal halide lights xenon? Are all xenon MH or HID?

HID lamps are any lamp that discharges a relatively large amount of energy through either a pure gas or a mixture of gases inside of a quartz tube which then emits light from the super heated gases.

Xenon Arc lamps, use a pure Xenon filled quartz tube that emits light when high voltages and high currents are passed through the super heated and conductive Xenon gas.

Metal Halide (MH) lamps use a gas filler and Metal Halide salts, when the lamp is started the gas filler heats up through a high voltage pulse, and the heat causes the metal halide salts to boil into a gas and that is what emits light, with MH bulbs starting up takes about 30 seconds during that time that the MH salts vaporize, the lamp will flicker and change colors while getting brighter until the lamp is fully warmed up and producing its rated output.


4. What are things to avoid doing to avoid breakage or burnout of these lights? (As in, Lighting them in cold temps? How shock proof are they?)

HID lamps are quite robust, they rarely have problems with impact if in a proper fixture, but with a larger lamp (over 100watts) they are still fragile, and if the lamp was knocked over the reflector housing would be damaged too. Cold temps are not a problem for HID lamps, other than large impacts vibrations and light hits, will not damage them. Average life is usually over 3000 hours, with a proper Ballast you should have no problems.

5. I saw one light rating brightness lumens vs. optical lumens--what is that?

AFAIK lumens is lumens, never heard of optical lumens, I would imagine it's just marketing BS.

6. Is a 66 cri in the good range? (Sodium Pressure is out too bad a cri)

Generally you want a CRI of 85 or greater, it's a scale of 100 where 100 is perfectly matched noon sunlight on a cloudless day, pure white light.

7. Why aren't all work lights MH? It seems a no brainer.

Metal Halide lights, and any HID lights have a much higher initial cost than Halogen, maintenance cost may not be any cheaper either, but maintenance down time is much lower.

8. Is there a downside other than lower cri to MH?

MH and HID lamps are rather expensive. As are their Ballasts and reflectors. Good MH bulbs can have fine CRI too.

9. I am assuming the heat byproduct of a 400 watt MH is same as the Halogen. Correct?

MH lamps operate much cooler than Halogen on the outside, internal temps are probably higher, but the lamp actually has an outer shield that helps keep things cool, most good reflectors for protables use have decent cooling abilities.

I will probably think of other questions later.


Hope this helps.

David
 
I haven't found a premade MH work light (175 watt MH is probably good when spraying with lower amp and heat, 400 watt mh is probably the best balance of amp and lumens, a 1000 watt MH while a little heavy on amps, depending on heat, might have many uses with 90000 lumens.)

Just a thought: perhaps more cheaply, one could build a wearable MH or clip-on http://www.brightstar-hid.com/product_info_e.php?UID=835 ballast, plus emitter, plus a dc transformer (I can't see a battery operated 21 watt light for 10 hours). I'm guessing 83 lm per watt x 21watts x 100 (inverse square law 10 foot v 1 foot + angle of light to wall)= 174,300 equivalent lumens. Depends on cost of 21 watt mh bulb and isn't something insane like $80.
 
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As far as cost, I paid $100 for a 1500 watt halogen at Lowes. It has 4 bulbs @ $6- $10 each. And I might have one or two blow a week with lens on. I have since taken off the lens to make the bulb run cooler and lower failure rate.

It seems a $200 outlay for a MH (equivalent to my 1500 watt halogen) and save myself $60 a year in bulbs.

Off topic, but once I painted for a photographer and got to use his Lowell tota light. The lightweight 750 watt bulb put out as much light as 2000 watts of my halogens. Since Lowell has many models, I am not sure how this light achieved this.
 
I really would like a 300 to 400 watt florescent work light,
You would probably have to get a bunch of smaller fixtures, probably four four-foot T-8 bulbs to a fixture and set them up in a line.

or a 100+ watt led work light--with (I am guessing from reading here) 30,000 to 40,000 lumens. More compact, the better.
That's a lot of lumens for an LED fixture and I am thinking that the color temperature may be colder than you want, and the CRI not that strong either.

Couple of questions: 1. Can these be purchased at a Brick and mortar store?
Yes. Try someplace that sells serious lights, an electrical supply store or someplace that sells parking lot lights.

could this bulb be put in in a standard clip on relector?
No.

3. Are most metal halide lights xenon? Are all xenon MH or HID?
High Intensity Discharge (HID) is a family of related types of lights. I believe people are suggesting the metal halide type of HID lighting because it will give you the best color rendering.

4. What are things to avoid doing to avoid breakage or burnout of these lights?

Don't turn them on and off carelessly. The startup is a little hard on the components.

(As in, Lighting them in cold temps? How shock proof are they?)
They don't care about temperature. Don't know the shock rating.

5. I saw one light rating brightness lumens vs. optical lumens--what is that?
Lumens is total emitted light. You'd have to ask them what "optical lumens" is. If they said "fixture lumens" I'd take that to mean they measured how much light actually makes it out of the fixure, not just how many the bulb makes.

6. Is a 66 cri in the good range? (Sodium Pressure is out too bad a cri)
No, I think that's be way too low for you. The client will look at the wall by sunlight and see stuff you missed.

7. Why aren't all work lights MH? It seems a no brainer.
High initial cost?

8. Is there a downside other than lower cri to MH?
I believe it is the least efficient of the HID bulbs. Still more efficient than incan though. It should have the best CRI of the HID bulbs.

9. I am assuming the heat byproduct of a 400 watt MH is same as the Halogen. Correct?
Don't know.

I talked to the sales, they claim I need their $200 base/ ballast. But, as I understand the term "ballast" as just an offsetting weight. Is this recommendation just a limitation of their sales knowledge?

This is an electrical ballast, not a mechanical one. It takes the incoming current and fires up a big pulse to start up the bulb, then turns down the power once it's running. Yes, they are expensive. The bulb won't run without one.

I assume HPS high pressure sodiums also need a ballast.
You are correct. All the HID bulbs use ballasts.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj027.htm is one reason the US seems to be in dark ages with MH lamps because they emit enough UV to grow plants, yet not run up the light bill?

You need red and blue to grow plants, don't know about UV. You can find piles of HID growlight vendors on eBay. You could try this guy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/400w-Hydrofarm-...ryZ42225QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and get one light cheap, try it and see what you think. Remember that he's selling the ballast separately and you'd need both. HID bulbs rule for things like warehouses, malls, and street lights, situations where you need a lot of light and don't turn them on and off every five minutes. They are starting to come into automotive headlights. They haven't really made it down to ordinary consumers and smaller applications yet.

Obviously, I would prefer if this just screwed into a $14 clip on reflector (more portable too, quicker up and running time).

Not a chance. If you take an HID bulb and put it into an ordinary lamp it won't light. It would also be too big and heavy. You will need to come up with your own stands. Music stands might do, or big umbrella bases with a pipe mounted in them. Clamp the new light to the stand. Plug in, let'er rip. Remember that these have a lot of UV inside them and shut them down if the outer glass envelope breaks.
 
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Have you tried out any of the fluorescent worklights intended as direct replacements for the halogens you're using, such as these? I've seen fixtures like this at Lowes before. You shoudl be able to purchase seveeral of those for the same price as a more exotic solution like a Metal Halide, and essentially reproduce the lighting you already have but with ~1/4 the power consumption (and less heat buildup).
 
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Have you tried out any of the fluorescent worklights intended as direct replacements for the halogens you're using, such as these? I've seen fixtures like this at Lowes before. You shoudl be able to purchase seveeral of those for the same price as a more exotic solution like a Metal Halide, and essentially reproduce the lighting you already have but with .1/4 the power consumption (and less heat buildup).

No, I had not seen any 65watt light flourescent worklight yet, other than a round HPS replacement at Ace Hardware with a very bulky ballast. The price and the wimpy 300 watt replacement, is a downside. If I could buy it locally here in NorthEast Ohio, it would be a done deal, since I could buy the light on day you need it and not month before, I could pay cash, and I would have the option for an easy return if the light turned out to disappoint.

I was pretty jazzed after reading here about MH and subsequently did much googling on the subject. (Previously, I was unaware they existed.) But after seeing size of the 400 watt bulb at the Lowes, I realize I would need to be very cautious buying a ballast online, since any practical design of the ballast would take someone who cared enough to use a slim design and lightweight materials. Else, likely I would be buying something 100 lbs and size of a small truck bed.

I like the ready made worklight below (only ready made one I have yet seen), except it is non directional, so I am guessing at least 1/2 efficient (at least half light going in opposite direction of work area). Sigh...
http://www.thegreenhead.com/2006/02/wobblelight-self-righting-400-watt.php
 
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a 21 watts MH bulbs runing at 83lm/w is only going to be 1700 lumens.


You have to always consider the inverse square law and efficiency/concentration of the reflectors. I have seen painter with 100 watt clip-on lights do better than some with the average 1000 watt work light placed 5 foot high at 45 degree angle from surface and 5 foot from wall and 7 foot off to side of area one might be working. So, assume 12 foot average from working area verses 4 foot from wall at somewhat more toward 90 degrees. This would yield 9 times more light from the little 21 watt light if comparing it to a floor based worklight (possibly up to 18 times depending on law of angle of light). Which is why 1700 lumens of a chest light or even a clip on light (to tall step ladder) really would be comparable to 20,000 of a floor based light. (Not sure how cri played into things.)

Actually, The Ultimate worklight might be a 1700 lumen HID head lamp that used a little transformer (I could put in tool belt.) with a cheap/light 18 gauge extension cord that would follow a worker around. If the light had a duel mode with a AA pack and 40 to 80 watt Cree and reflector, to kick in when unplugged, I think we would have the ultimate worklight. Can you imagine!!
 
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The inverse square law only works when changing from lux at 1 distance to lux at another, lumens is constant lux is variable, it will only put out 1700 lumens, but at 1 meter it may put out 170,000 lux. where at 10 meters you will only get maybe 1,700 lux.
 
For painting you probably need decent CRI. Metal halide may be efficient in lumens per watt, but that doesn't include ballast efficiency, which is still not so high compared to fluorescent. Also it is more expensive per lumen than fluorescent. It is possible to build yourself a nice system with high CRI, but I think it would be a big pain and expensive.

At least that's what I concluded when I researched building one myself.

I built myself a four tube light with Philips 5500K 55 watt PLL tubes. The fixture has 92 CRI and puts out a total of approximately 15,000 lumens. I used dimmable ballasts, which were expensive, but for your purposes you could use regular electronic ballasts which would be cheaper. I think Davis Fluorescent in West Los Angeles sells some ballasts that could run 6 or 8 tubes at a time for less than 100 dollars.
 
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