Gordov2
Enlightened
Can you give me some pointers on what GREEN laser might be best for my Glock model 23 pistol, for a laser sight?
Need your input for Green Laser Sight for my pistol
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Given that green laser pointers have a much larger body due to an array of crystals, lenses and a diode, they are much less likely to fit into a small, pistol sized package.
They are also much more prone to damage from the physical shock that your pistol creates because there are multiple components that require precise alignment to work.
Third, and most important green lasers create a nice, visible beam. This is not beneficial to you in a self defense situation. Your assailant can easily trace the beam right back to your location and fire back if armed.
Besides the "cool" factor, green is a bad choice for a defensive firearm in my opinion.
They are also much more prone to damage from the physical shock that your pistol creates because there are multiple components that require precise alignment to work.
Third, and most important green lasers create a nice, visible beam. This is not beneficial to you in a self defense situation. Your assailant can easily trace the beam right back to your location and fire back if armed.
Besides the "cool" factor, green is a bad choice for a defensive firearm in my opinion.
nero_design
Enlightened
I have to agree that Green is not as ideal for defensive situations because in my experience (I used to be an armed bodyguard) the red lasers were always much more intimidating whereas nowdays, green lasers are still not much more than a novelty. There was an incident going back some years now wherea red laser defused a situation for me ....from what was almost certainly going to have resulted in a some form of lethal exchange since I was severely outnumbered at the time. The red dots intimidated the aggressors and they left immediately.
Green sights are certainly used by US forces in Iraq at the moment but again, this is more as an offensive accessory since it intimidates an easily impressed enemy which has little or no understanding of anything other than an automatic rifle from the AK family. A millitary sniper will use an invisible IR laser and a scope/sight capable of seeing the resulting dot. I would be inclined to get green sights for the pistol range and red sights for any personal use/ The heavy-duty nature of the Reds make them less fragile. You can also get red lasers that are built directly into the recoil lug (below the barrel) for numerous models. These activate when the slide is racked. For revolvers, I know you can mount a laser to them but find them cumbersome compared to automatics.
I bought one of the much brighter <35mW green lasers sights from eBay last month and was pleasantly surprised with it although I am not going to be using it for a weapon sight. It will depend on your needs but if you want a green over the reds, the brighter dot makes your firearm quite accurate in sunlight as you can see the dot much more clearly.
(this is the <35mW laser I found on eBay for US$62 + postage)
Some pics here... http://www.pbase.com/nero_design/lasers_other
I suspect though that the calibers over 9mm may cause a massive shockwave when firing the weapon and any 9mm round over 147 grains is likewise going to subject the green laser sights to a lot of concussive vibration. This may move the KPT Crystal and diminish the usefulness of the laser although logically, you imagine anyone selling a green laser would make them sturdy enough to actually be used for the purpose for which they were/are sold.
Take a look at your model of firearm and if it's a Sig, a Glock or even a .45 ACP, you may be able to get one of those amazing slide lugs (AKA: 'guide-rod') with the laser built into it. Here's a guy who sells them and I can recommend them myself.
http://www.shooterssupply.com/html/lasermax_internal_guide_rod_la.htm
The number one reason I suggest a built-in laser for a defensive pistol is that 9/10 shooting occur within 10 feet of your opponent. For this reason, you may never need a laser sight except to avert confrontation since many perps will surrender when they see the dot. However, the bolt-on laser sights (like the green aboe which I purchased the other day) are too large and they OFTEN catch on holsters. I wore a <5mW Red laser on a Smith & Wesson 9mm 5904 and found it was always snagging on my pancake (in the pants/low profile) holsters. Both leather and nylon holster too. For this reason, it became a liability and the metal claws and clamps damaged the finish on the firearm as well.
Hope this gives you some thoughts. The colour you get will depend on your uses and needs.
Green sights are certainly used by US forces in Iraq at the moment but again, this is more as an offensive accessory since it intimidates an easily impressed enemy which has little or no understanding of anything other than an automatic rifle from the AK family. A millitary sniper will use an invisible IR laser and a scope/sight capable of seeing the resulting dot. I would be inclined to get green sights for the pistol range and red sights for any personal use/ The heavy-duty nature of the Reds make them less fragile. You can also get red lasers that are built directly into the recoil lug (below the barrel) for numerous models. These activate when the slide is racked. For revolvers, I know you can mount a laser to them but find them cumbersome compared to automatics.
I bought one of the much brighter <35mW green lasers sights from eBay last month and was pleasantly surprised with it although I am not going to be using it for a weapon sight. It will depend on your needs but if you want a green over the reds, the brighter dot makes your firearm quite accurate in sunlight as you can see the dot much more clearly.
(this is the <35mW laser I found on eBay for US$62 + postage)
Some pics here... http://www.pbase.com/nero_design/lasers_other
I suspect though that the calibers over 9mm may cause a massive shockwave when firing the weapon and any 9mm round over 147 grains is likewise going to subject the green laser sights to a lot of concussive vibration. This may move the KPT Crystal and diminish the usefulness of the laser although logically, you imagine anyone selling a green laser would make them sturdy enough to actually be used for the purpose for which they were/are sold.
Take a look at your model of firearm and if it's a Sig, a Glock or even a .45 ACP, you may be able to get one of those amazing slide lugs (AKA: 'guide-rod') with the laser built into it. Here's a guy who sells them and I can recommend them myself.
http://www.shooterssupply.com/html/lasermax_internal_guide_rod_la.htm
The number one reason I suggest a built-in laser for a defensive pistol is that 9/10 shooting occur within 10 feet of your opponent. For this reason, you may never need a laser sight except to avert confrontation since many perps will surrender when they see the dot. However, the bolt-on laser sights (like the green aboe which I purchased the other day) are too large and they OFTEN catch on holsters. I wore a <5mW Red laser on a Smith & Wesson 9mm 5904 and found it was always snagging on my pancake (in the pants/low profile) holsters. Both leather and nylon holster too. For this reason, it became a liability and the metal claws and clamps damaged the finish on the firearm as well.
Hope this gives you some thoughts. The colour you get will depend on your uses and needs.
COMMANDR
Enlightened
Check out this thread. I have ordered 3 of these form an ebay supplier and they were of good quality and really bright. The price was also right, so take a look.
Gary
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159742&highlight=lxgd
Gary
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159742&highlight=lxgd
Gordov2
Enlightened
Thanks everyone. Here's the deal: I understand what everyone is saying and agree for the most part. However, I am an experienced weapon owner, IDPA shooter, and already have a Lasermax built-in laser (replaces the recoil spring) in my Glock model 23 (.40 caliber). I'm definitely aware of the pros and cons of lasers in general and green in particular, etc. When I shoot competition, (or most of the time actually), I use my Truglo TFO tritium/fiber optic iron sights.
What I am after is a unit similar to the Lasermax, or even something like the new Lasermax (Uni-Max) that mounts on the gun rail under the weapon. But I want it in green and I want more than 5 mW... and yes, I know the deal on IR and lasers that are more powerful than 5mW. My goal is to get something as small as possible (no bigger than say, a standard, white weapon light). I am interested in this mostly because I want to compare and contrast the green to the standard red on my weapon.
Can you suggest anything like this? Again, rail mounted under weapon, green laser, more than 5mW, about the size of a standard weapon mounted light.
Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!
What I am after is a unit similar to the Lasermax, or even something like the new Lasermax (Uni-Max) that mounts on the gun rail under the weapon. But I want it in green and I want more than 5 mW... and yes, I know the deal on IR and lasers that are more powerful than 5mW. My goal is to get something as small as possible (no bigger than say, a standard, white weapon light). I am interested in this mostly because I want to compare and contrast the green to the standard red on my weapon.
Can you suggest anything like this? Again, rail mounted under weapon, green laser, more than 5mW, about the size of a standard weapon mounted light.
Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Gordov2
Enlightened
Anyone?
:naughty:
:green: :duh2:
nero_design
Enlightened
Go with the LXGD model from eBay then if you want a rail-mounted green to go underside. Same as on the Flintlock Pistol.
This is the seller I got mine from - Ill paste the eBay item # here and you can copy it into your eBay search window if you want one. Item number: 270120617680
If you get one.... Ask him to put tape on the wrapper though since mine arrived with a piece of string holding the end of the parcel closed. Delivery was about 4 days. It's about the cheapest green I've seen and the output is closer to <40mW Comes with a pressure switch plus tools and an optional constant on-off switch in the box.
Considering your needs, this one isn't too expensive an investment. I'll probably end up using mine for a telescope starfinder eventually. The powder from your ammo (and anyone else's) will REALLY illuminate the beam in an enclosed gun range too.
This is the seller I got mine from - Ill paste the eBay item # here and you can copy it into your eBay search window if you want one. Item number: 270120617680
If you get one.... Ask him to put tape on the wrapper though since mine arrived with a piece of string holding the end of the parcel closed. Delivery was about 4 days. It's about the cheapest green I've seen and the output is closer to <40mW Comes with a pressure switch plus tools and an optional constant on-off switch in the box.
Considering your needs, this one isn't too expensive an investment. I'll probably end up using mine for a telescope starfinder eventually. The powder from your ammo (and anyone else's) will REALLY illuminate the beam in an enclosed gun range too.
Gordov2
Enlightened
nero_design said:
Thank you for the Info!
The laser looks a little big (long). Is there anything out there that might be around 4 inches long?
nero_design
Enlightened
Gordov2 said:
You may find it hard to get small sight-adjustible greens simply because the conversion crystal assemply and the DPSS setup requires more length. Reds are easy enough though.
The green in these pics (above) is 1.25" thick x 4.5" long
(3.5" long without end cap on )
Ask around though in case someone's doing a smaller version.
Gordov2
Enlightened
OK thanks. That length is actually not too bad.
Aristo
Newly Enlightened
well I searched and this is the thread I found. Any possible way to get one of these now? Found a few airsoft sites that sell them and mark them less mw. just don't know what to trust.
shao.fu.tzer
Flashlight Enthusiast
I've read mixed reviews about the Viridian products... Some people love them and others think they're a pile of dung. For something that will set you back a few hundred dollars, I would hope for a better warranty than 12 months though. I've never been a big fan of lasers on my weapons, as I've spent a lot of time practicing point shooting (with my index finger) so any encounter within the confines of my home are taken care of - no need to aim - I'm pretty darn good (not meaning to yank my own chain) so I opt for a light mounted on my pistol instead - at close ranges, the hotspot creates enough of an aiming reference that a laser would not only be redundant, but, in my opinion, less effective for quick target acquisition. At longer ranges and outdoors, sights all the way. Lasers have their place as others have pointed out, but their popularity is mostly due to 80's movies and coolness factor than anything. I'd managed to avoid sticking a laser on any of my weapons for years until the Streamlight TLR-4 came out - the LED module was so tremendously brighter than the TLR-3 that I already had mounted, and only cost $10 more than I had paid for the TLR-3 that I decided to keep it and sell the TLR-3. Granted, I could have switched the heads on the two units, but then I would have been selling a downgraded TLR-4 and that's not the way I roll. Do I use the laser? No... Am I glad it's there? Not really... When people come over and I show off my guns, are they impressed? Always...
So in essence - instead of buying a green laser sight, I would buy either a laser boresighter (cartridge sized, so you load it into the bore) or a LaserLyte laser training system. Now, with the device installed, practice quickly drawing or picking up your weapon and aiming at various targets around your house without using the sights - you'll be able to see if you were on target. If you were off, repeat. After many weeks of daily practice, you should be proficient enough at point shooting to take out any man-sized target in your home. Outdoors? Forget about it... Use your sights like you were taught. Save your money!
So in essence - instead of buying a green laser sight, I would buy either a laser boresighter (cartridge sized, so you load it into the bore) or a LaserLyte laser training system. Now, with the device installed, practice quickly drawing or picking up your weapon and aiming at various targets around your house without using the sights - you'll be able to see if you were on target. If you were off, repeat. After many weeks of daily practice, you should be proficient enough at point shooting to take out any man-sized target in your home. Outdoors? Forget about it... Use your sights like you were taught. Save your money!
AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
A green laser might be bright enough to use in the daytime. It would depend on exact conditions and surface features you shine it on. However, be sure that you're looking at YOUR laser dot. This is one reason police snipers use IR lasers - they aren't likely to see some prankster's red dot dancing around their red dot.
Tac Gunner
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have used a Viridian green laser with the built in light and it worked great, it was the C5L model. As far as long term use I'm not sure its reliability but it seemed extremely well built and it worked great the few magazines I shot through it, it was mounted on a Glock 22. Also haven't read much negative on it. There are also other companies now making green lasers such as Crimson Trace and Lasermax, both have great reputations. As stated above though, a light is really helpful on a pistol as A.) you can't shoot what you can't see and B.) you don't want to shoot something you mistaked for something else due to not being able to see clearly. So if you want a light and laser go with either the Viridian or Lasermax uni-max as it can have a lighted mounted to it, both are very compact and will not extend past the end of your frame, even on a compact pistol. As for being more than 5mW, that won't happen as that is the most allowed by federal law, its still plenty bright enough for use out to about 15-25 yards during the day depending on light conditions and target color. Since you shoot IDPA, I'm sure there are fellow shooters at a match that have experience with green lasers and may even have one for ya to try if you ask around.
Shoot Straight- Tac
Shoot Straight- Tac
Aristo
Newly Enlightened
Sorry I'm so late to reply, thanks for the answers. I got one, and yes it's 35mw, and no you can still get ones that are rated higher, the K15 is way brighter than my 5mw green pointer (borrowed a friends to compare). I got an Axiz http://www.aixiz.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/26/products_id/242
Was in a lengthy waiting period for some parts for this build (5 months for one and 7 for another)
It works it is nice, but after using it a few times the novelty wore off and didn't notice any really effective improvements aside from pointing out my M92's dust cover not locking down like it is supposed to so I'm getting some inconsistent groupings, but I can constantly hit plates over and over. Have to work on the lock up and fitment, but once I do it should be 100% I put the laser in at 75 yards so the 50 and 100 yard point of impact was more predictable, mount could stand to be a little more low profile. Never had a lasersight before to know that you need to pick a zero distance, makes perfect sense, derp.
That being said it was a good lesson in what I think I want/need vs what I actually need. If you want a quality laser sight on a carbine go with a K15 by Laserlyte, if you want a really bright laser go with what I got, there's no quality issue, just the design is the proverbial CCC like an NCStar or one of many like that. The turrets are solid and there's tons of adjustment to it though, not nearly as cheap as the cheap stuff, but still heavy and the position on the gun high and off side instead of closer to the bore like the K15 means the bore line and the line drawn by the laser are pretty extreme even short distances outside of the zeroed range. The other lesson learned, my gun looks totally ridiculous with a surefire X300u-a and the laser. Can't wait till I get my form 1 back on it though.
Here's a pic with my old streamlight and the laser, need to update it. It's still in the build phase, and won't be refinished until I get the form one and engraving on the receiver done. (Fake can btw)
Was in a lengthy waiting period for some parts for this build (5 months for one and 7 for another)
It works it is nice, but after using it a few times the novelty wore off and didn't notice any really effective improvements aside from pointing out my M92's dust cover not locking down like it is supposed to so I'm getting some inconsistent groupings, but I can constantly hit plates over and over. Have to work on the lock up and fitment, but once I do it should be 100% I put the laser in at 75 yards so the 50 and 100 yard point of impact was more predictable, mount could stand to be a little more low profile. Never had a lasersight before to know that you need to pick a zero distance, makes perfect sense, derp.
That being said it was a good lesson in what I think I want/need vs what I actually need. If you want a quality laser sight on a carbine go with a K15 by Laserlyte, if you want a really bright laser go with what I got, there's no quality issue, just the design is the proverbial CCC like an NCStar or one of many like that. The turrets are solid and there's tons of adjustment to it though, not nearly as cheap as the cheap stuff, but still heavy and the position on the gun high and off side instead of closer to the bore like the K15 means the bore line and the line drawn by the laser are pretty extreme even short distances outside of the zeroed range. The other lesson learned, my gun looks totally ridiculous with a surefire X300u-a and the laser. Can't wait till I get my form 1 back on it though.
Here's a pic with my old streamlight and the laser, need to update it. It's still in the build phase, and won't be refinished until I get the form one and engraving on the receiver done. (Fake can btw)
bshanahan14rulz
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks for the update Aristo.
Surefire for a while was talking about an x400gn, a 505-510nm version of their 635nm laser sight light. Dunno if they ever made it to production, and we've progressed to ~520nm for injection laser diodes.
Surefire for a while was talking about an x400gn, a 505-510nm version of their 635nm laser sight light. Dunno if they ever made it to production, and we've progressed to ~520nm for injection laser diodes.
