(New Data p2)BeamShots Comparison Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlights

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

MrGman, have you tried out Gene's diffusion material on the M60? Be nice to compare it to M60F.

Bill

Yes I have, it does the same thing on the M60 that it does on the triple, makes for a nice wide hot spot in the horizontal axis with smooth even spill into the vertical axis. So it will smooth out the hot spot by spreading it out more evenly horizontally, yet be bright in that narrow central area vertically. Whereas the Flood model is a semi wide beam in a circular pattern.

The whole point of this specific filter is to just spread out the beam in one axis be it horizontal or vertical to see what you need to see. Since we live mostly in a a horizontal plane, if you wanted to see everything across the "landscape" in one shot and not waste putting a lot of light up into the trees or down at your feet, this is the filter.

On the other hand, if you were looking up a ladder or a narrow stairwell and wanted to see the entire vertical path without wasting a lot of light sideways, this would be great, simply rotate the flashlight 90 degrees.

This type of filter might be very useful for bike lights to light up along the street and see whats around a corner as one example of a specific use.

I could see it as a flip up filter accessory for the maglight or for the M60 on a Sure Fire or other light of similar configuration.

The 2 samples Gene gave me were precut to fit inside the maglight bezel. I placed them in front of the M60 in a SureFire host but don't want to cut it down to that size as I have more research to do, and kind of like it for the Maglight with the triple drop.

I am asking Gene if the company makes any that is just a little less wide and so narrow in the opposite axis. In other words not such a skinny wide rectangular pattern. Something more along the ration of 2:1 like the movie screen patterns in the theaters.

But the more I look at this the more I like it.

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

If I were to investigate a bump in the night or were trundling in a dark forest, the F would be perfect.

The regular M60 is perfect for critical examination of objects. It really reveals flaws and discrepancies.

The M60 and F are both really great lights, I can't help but love them both because the one has such a smooth transition from hot spot to spill and the flood just has such a smooth useful beam, especially indoors where it bounces off the walls evenly and just lights up that room.

My triple drop with my home made diffuser is simply the same as having 3 M60F's with a wider circular beam pattern. Its more like turning on the light in your kitchen where now you simply see everything that's there, nice and easy.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

I guess the next obvious question would be, does Gene's difussion material reduce the overall output (lumens). Minor losses?

Bill

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

I guess the next obvious question would be, does Gene's difussion material reduce the overall output (lumens). Minor losses?

Bill

The answer is the losses are very minor. I am estimating by what I see as to less than 4% total, probably around 3%. I don't have a lux meter yet. I am looking into buying a good one but have been very busy with other things. The maglight doesn't fit into the integration sphere's opening port so I can't use it for a direct reading. I would have to make a home made one like precisionworks and make the port big enough to take in the maglight, which I will probably do through the winter months, but now its not on the agenda.

Anyway in general nonsmooth surfaces actually reflect less light than a smooth one. A smooth piece of glass or plastic window reflects typically 4% off of each surface and there are always the 2 so thats a multiple that is just a fraction of 8% loss.

A textured surface such as this does not have that substantial loss.

What I did do was take the 2 that I had and put them together in series and shined the light on the ceiling and looked at the bed. With 2 I could see some light loss, with one I could just barely detect any thing different from the naked beam of the triple. With my homemade diffuser of sanded plastic it was between the 1 and 2 of these special holographic diffusers that Gene gave me.

So its better than just an abraided plastic sheet, which you saw in my original set of postings how it makes for diffuse light.

I will try and get some pictures of the diffusers themselves next. I am doing this in little bits and pieces mostly because I am very busy with other personal projects around the house.

Hope this helps BE BILL.

 

[woodrow]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

Nice!!!! Beamshots! The tripple Cree dropin is very impressive. So is the Fenix T1 for that matter. ( I just gave mine to my friend who is a airline pilot and always traveling after I got my Olight M20...he had a cheap dorcy led/incan light....but while I am happy for him... I will really miss it)

I like the really wide spill of the 3 Cree drop in light. While I like lights like the Raidfire Spear for their throw abilities... in a tactical situation...I might have missed the bad guy on the right.

Thanks again for the great photos.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

Thanks MrGman, I have found, using bounce with light meter, that the SF beam shaper causes losses exceeding 15%, and got better results with an LDF window from flashlightlens.com, that is, less loss. I lost my written data, and can not find my beam shaper to recheck my findings. I think that 10% is acceptable, if the result is a nice flood without a remarkable hot spot.

Bill

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

I wouldn't use the meter with a ceiling bounce test, I would build an integration sphere with styrofoam, that has seemed to work very well for others. Look up precisionworks name in a search and you will find a lot of his work, I helped him on some of it.

But this diffuser has no hot spot center, the pattern makes a nice horizontal spread of that beam.

All I can really say is that no pictures will do it justice, it has to be seen and appreciated with your own eyes.

And the triple has more then enough lumens output to run it and light up everything in one pass.

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

Spoke to Gene today, the filter I am using is a 30 degree by 5 (not 2) degree beam spread. So since I was putting the wider axis horizontally, that would be 30 degrees wide and 5 degrees tall. I asked about possibly getting a 25 deg by 8 deg beam pattern from the vendor who makes these things.

In the meantime he is going to send me sample(s) cut to fit the M60 directly so I will do some beam shots with them actually installed under the bezel when I have them.

 

[DM51]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

Excellent comparison beamshots - very useful - thank you!

 

[davedds]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

Spoke to Gene today, the filter I am using is a 30 degree by 5 (not 2) degree beam spread. So since I was putting the wider axis horizontally, that would be 30 degrees wide and 5 degrees tall. I asked about possibly getting a 25 deg by 8 deg beam pattern from the vendor who makes these things.

In the meantime he is going to send me sample(s) cut to fit the M60 directly so I will do some beam shots with them actually installed under the bezel when I have them.

Is that filter material plastic or glass of some type? What about a picture of the filter for us?

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

The filter is plastic, its thin, flexible (not that you should bend or crease it). I will try and get some meaningful pictures of it today (much later, after church). It doesn't look like much to the naked eye.

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

This is a collection of all my filters for the Triple Drop. The 2 sent by Gene are on the right.

This is a close up of the 2 sent by Gene to simply drop in behind the bezel of the Maglight to use with the Triple Drop. One is a wider yet narrower (vertically) beam pattern than the other. I only took beam shots of the 30 degree by 5 degree which did not have such a narrow slit of a beam at longer ranges.

The glorious maglight (4C) with the Triple installed and no filter. Note the FRAEN reflectors on each LED.

This is with the 30 by 5 degree filter installed. From the outside world the other one would look no different. Its groove pattern that is not distinguishable to the unaided eye does all the work.

This is the maglight with one of my homemade filters. It puts frosted plastic in front of one of the 3 LEDS and keeps 2 clear. I have another that is frosted in front of 2 instead of 1. These were covered up in the original picture group post of this thread.

This is my full diffuser home made filter. Softens the light in all axes equally. It was the orignal plastic lens that came with the light that was frosted with an orbital sander. I checked the grit number it was 240 not 320. I don't have any 320 grit for the orbital sander, but if I did, that is what I would use.

This was my first prototype. When looked at head on it is clear in one half of each LED reflector. It basically makes for a somewhat diffuse light. I would cut the inner circle into a sawtooth pattern on the next one so you don't see the contrast of the edge. There are no pictures of this beam. Its similar to those partial filters shown in original group way up above.

None of these are as efficient in shaping the beam and making a hot spot without cutting down the light as the holographic ones Gene provided from his source. Its just a matter of what beam pattern you light, they all work.

More to come yet. Here is new additional data of filters drop in front of the Triple Drop. :twothumbs

NO FILTER___722 LUMENS__100%

40 X .2 _____ 589 __________82%, 8 % loss, No images of this filter, sorry.

30 X 5______ 678__________ 94%, 6% loss This created the horizontally wide beam.

DIFF CH____ 678__________ 94%, 6% loss. This is the one with the large central hole that I made. Not bad.

DIFF 1_____ 667__________ 92%, 8% loss, This is the original polycarbonate Maglight window that I frosted by simply using the orbital sander on it on one side only. 240 grit.

DIFF-02_____ 667__________ 92%, 8% loss, this has thin plastic sanded filter with 2 openings that I made, to let the beam out of 2 of 3 reflectors.

DIFF-01_____611___________ 85%, 15% loss, this is another piece of the thin plastic sanded down filter with only 1 opening for 1 of the 3 reflectors of the triple. Although the beam looks nice the sanded down 2 liter soda bottle plastic is cutting down a lot of light and is not the same as the overall diffusion made from what was the original Maglight plastic window.

NO FILTER___722___________100, retest of the light with no filter to prove it hasn't lost lumens.

Special thanks to precisionworks for taking all these readings in his Integration sphere system he built. Since it is a set of comparative readings to the same original source, the relative change of filter/non filter to that source is very accurate and trustworthy. His unit has a larger opening to fit in the head of a Maglight.

Bottom Line is I see any filter with less than a 10% loss as acceptable to use for a light, so the horizontal beam patterns by Gene for the triple will be very handy. There will still be more to come on the smaller ones made for the D26 size pills including of course the Malkoff M60's I am still working on. , G

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

Always trying to do better, I decided to let Adobe photoshop auto correct the levels and contrast somewhat to see if it would show my last set of beam shots better than the harsh reality of the as is photos from the camera. I also cropped them in somewhat. These appear to be truer to what I saw with my eyes but again, do not do justice to the image seen by my eyes.

This is the raw output of the triple drop auto adjusted.

This is the triple with the wide filter auto adjusted. This is a nice beam, and this is much closer to what I was seeing.

This is the M60 in a Solarforce Host auto adjusted. compare to the M60F next.

This is the M60F also auto adjusted. I love them both.

This is the raw triple output of the full panaramic view across the backyard but adjusted up with Adobe. Compare to the next photo.

This is the triple with the 30 by 5 degree filter auto adjusted exposure by Adobe as well. This is closer to what I saw.

So go between the original photos and these photos and compare the raw beam to the filtered beam, the M60 to M60F and draw your own contusions (not a spelling error). :twothumbs

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

And now in my next installment I finally put together a table of voltage drop across the batteries and the current draw through them using 4C, 3C, 2C and even 1C cell to show the power consumption. The light was useable in all these configurations but definitely losing brightness with 2 C cells and below. The batteries are the Tenergy 5.0 Ampere/Hour rated C cells.

MalkoffTriple Drop :thumbsup: :wave:
CellsVoltsAmpsWatts
4C 4.96 2.97 14.7
3C 3.54 3.57 12.6
2C 2.2 2.8 6.2
1C 1.1 1.97 2.2

I don't have a light meter (yet) but even then it would only measure the lux at the hot spot and would not do such a wide flood light like this justice since we all know that Lux and Lumens are not interchangeable and don't mean the same thing.

I don't have the time to do run times and without a meter to show the actual light drop off to some quantifiably meaningful level, I believe it would be a total waste of time.

But there is more top secret testing in the works .

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics++) BeamShots Comparison Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlights

I have received more filters from Gene for both the Triple and the M60 modules or any pill that fits in the standard size 6P et all hosts.

I will however first be shipping the entire maglight with triple drop and filters to my good friend Precisionworks for relative brightness testing in his Integration sphere since the maglight head will fit into the opening. And see how bright it is and comparatively how the filters drop down the brightness. Again my guess is only about 4% for the factory filters he sent me. My home made ones will vary considerably since the amount the cover the 3 LEDs varies.

So stay tuned.

I will be creating a new thread for all the filter testing I will be doing for the 6P sized lights. Also buying a new digital camera real quick to do the testing with.

G.

 

[DowntownDM]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

This is the triple with the 30 by 5 degree filter auto adjusted exposure by Adobe as well. This is closer to what I saw.

pardon me, but this is pretty impressive... what flashlight/combo does this (so it's a 4C Maglite with some sort of LED mod and custom diffusers)? (you guys are losing me a bit with the this mod + that mod, etc)

In any case, while I'm generally only interesting in smaller lights, this one seems a killer compliment to a picket-sized EDC-ish. what's the most direct route to learning more about bigger lights (and thier costs, options etc) with performance on par with this you've shown?

Thanks, great write up...

- D

 

[ace0001a]

Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

You can always go with the Solarforce hosts and save money. The reverse clicky works very well. I only have 5 of them so far. Then you can get the extension tubes and run the lights with 2 X 17500 for better run time and Guilt Free Lumens (GFL) from rechargeable batteries that actually run for a couple of hours +.

Yeah Gene puts out top notch stuff and I'm always hoping for materials technology like optics and reflectors to improve as much as the LEDs so that future products improve.

The Solarforce L2/Spiderfire X-03 are excellent Surefire 6P clones and their quality compared to the more common Ultrafire/Smartfire/Trustfire (god too many "fires") CR123/18650 flashlights are noticeably better. I have like 6 of them myself along with 5 Surefires (yes I am crazy). Ebay dealer "hkequipment" (right now they're redoing their ebay store) usually sells a Xenon Solarforce L2/Spiderfire X-03 for about $16 shipped...which is an extremely good bang for the buck buy...just swap out the Xenon P60 module with an M60 and you're ready to go!

 

[precisionworks]

Re: (More Pics++) BeamShots Comparison Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlights

what flashlight/combo does this

IIRC, that's a Mag with 4 NiMH C-cells, plus the Malkoff Triple:

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_12

 

[MrGman]

Re: (More Pics++) BeamShots Comparison Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlights

The Malkoff Triple Drop can fit into the 2C, 3C, or 4C, 2D, 3D, or 4D. It is brightest with the 4D and 4 NiMH rechargeable batteries.

I have tested it with numerous filters shown in previous photos and labeled. But to be more specific, Gene sent me wide angle filters. 30 degree beam in one axis and 5 degree beam in the other axis. I made it 30 degrees wide and 5 degrees tall for those beamshots where I actually used that filter. My home made filters do not shape the beam pattern in any axis, simply provide more or less diffusion to soften the beam and spread it out.

This is a true 700 lumen plus light monster, running 3 individual Cree XRe Q5's at 1.1 amp each per Gene. Since I measured 15 watts of power consumption using 4 new rechargeable C cells, once I got them "conditioned" with multiple charge discharge cycles, I have no doubt its putting out the output Gene claims. The point was to make the beam pattern more useable by putting it all onthe horizon instead of spilling some of it in the air.

My cohort in photonic crimes, precisionworks will be doing the lumens measurement shortly.

I have tried to compare it to the Malkoff M60, M60 Flood, and M60 low power (not low low) simply to show that even though those lights are bright, this monster is in fact 3 times brighter than them for the obvious reason of 3 outputs in one maglight head.

Hope that clears it up for you, downtown DM.

 

[DowntownDM]

Re: (More Pics++) BeamShots Comparison Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlights

That helps a lot, thanks.

The idea of a particularly horizontal/wide diffuser, especially as evidenced by your multiple-targets test, is a great idea in those applications - and the differences from one diffuser to the next as shown by your tests illustrate it really well (I think, very cool stuff...).

Whether checking out my backyard, a campsite, or any other similarly sized dark area - and especially something larger and possibly more detailed than a pocket sized or similar light can keep up with - this seems like an excellent supplement to a 2 or 3 light kit.

A few questions come to mind though:

How do you, or would you, index the light relative to the orientation of the horizontal-diffuser (and for that matter the three-LED head itself) in a real situation? Does the head rotate (and stay there) such that you can line up the horizontal line, so to speak, with the Maglight's switch so that when you hold it the light in your normal way it's always facing the right direction?

Also, I wonder how rugged it is... like, with a traditional Maglite of that size you can basically beat the crap out of something/someone (as well as many other rough uses) and it's still going to work 99% of the time (maybe a bulb replacement here and there). I wonder if a modded light like this is as durable?

If I'm understanding you so far... if, for example, I just wanted to copy the performance you got in the photo I quoted above - it's simply a 4C Maglite, some specific conditioned rechargeable batteries, the Malkoff triple drop in module, and the diffuser? Do you guys or someone else sell such diffusers, or are they more or less something I'd have to make myself?

And what about runtime relative to cell size/count? Like, if it's true that you were using 4Cs in your tests, which I find to be plenty bright, would or could 4Ds be made to simply last longer rather than be any brighter?

Thanks again, this community is great.