New REMORA: Questions

[ICUDoc]

What a great name for a shark accessory!
Can anyone tell me is the Remora a PWM controller or does it act like a resistor ladder resulting in "analogue" current limiting?
If it is PWM at what frequencies does it run?
Many thanks for any answers.

 

[dat2zip]

PWM is a rather over abused term here on CPF. The Remora essentially replaces the analog pot with a digital version. Yes, it uses PWM to generate a filtered DC value that to the control input of the Shark. While the uP output is PWM it is filtered to near DC before being fed to the control line.

Wayne

 

[ICUDoc]

Thanks for the quick answer! So can you see the output strobe if you move the torch quickly across a surface? Many thanks again!

 

[Walt175]

I was going to order a bflex for a multi seoul mag mod I'm working on, now I think I'll go with ths shark and remora. I do have a question. How do you connect the 2 boards? The instructions on your website are a little vague.....:thinking:

 

[DaFABRICATA]

I too am interested in this component....I notice a faint flicker with my G&P tailcap and would like to know if this flickering is noticable with the remora?
Where can i get a potentiameter for the shark? I have a mod for a bike light I'd like to do but am trying to decide if the Remora is what I'm looking for or if a potentiameter switch would be better.
How difficult is it to desolder the sharks built in switch and upgrade with a larger, outboard switch.
Thanks for any help!

 

[DonShock]

...Where can i get a potentiameter for the shark?...

I have a few left here.

 

[LED Zeppelin]

I too am interested in this component....I notice a faint flicker with my G&P tailcap and would like to know if this flickering is noticable with the remora?
Where can i get a potentiameter for the shark? I have a mod for a bike light I'd like to do but am trying to decide if the Remora is what I'm looking for or if a potentiameter switch would be better.
How difficult is it to desolder the sharks built in switch and upgrade with a larger, outboard switch.
Thanks for any help!

I can't say from experience (haven't received my order yet), but from Wayne's reply above I don't think you will notice any "flickering" or strobe effect from the PWM. The PWM part is not the output of the shark, it has been filtered before reaching the emitter to virtual DC.

As far as the choice between an external pot and the Remora, they are completely different. The pot will need additional room inside the light, and also introduce a potential spot for water and contaminates to enter the light. The only flashlights I use the pots on are Mags where the pot can reside in front of the stock switch.

The Remora will allow you to access different levels without additional external modification to a light. The existing switch is all you will need to trigger the different modes.

I love external pots, they are so intuitive. But they cannot be used in most applications, and introduce more moving parts and fragility. For extreme environments or rough useage I'd go with the Remora. Rarely do I ever need more than 2 levels of output, and the Remora offers more than that.

 

[Greta]

Continued and copied from HERE.

modamag05-30-2007 11:42 PM
Re: New REMORA: Questions

To my knowledge & limited experience with the prototypes. I can not see the REMORA the flicker at all even in low mode.

Walt17506-04-2007 07:46 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Ok, I got my Remora and Shark in the mail today. Now all I need are some instructions on how to connect them together. I was hoping it would come with instructions.
From the Shoppe's website, I know I have to remove the pot from the Shark. There's a good photo of which terminals need to be jumped, after it's gone,but there isn't a whole lotta info on how to connect the Remora to the Shark. In the only pic of them together, there's only 1 wire shown going between them. Is that correct? If not, where's the other wire? Where does it come from, and where does it go?


:help:

dat2zip06-04-2007 07:53 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

There are three total connections, the wire as shown in the diagram and the two holes that mate with the Shark board.

Remove the trim pot.

Jumper the two top pads of the Shark Trim pot.

Add your LED +/- wires to the Shark board.

Add two terminal posts or stiff wires in the holes near the trim pot.

Align the two holes on the Remora to the two stiff posts on the Shark.

Solder the two posts to the Remora.

Solder the third wire to the Remora.

Hook up the LED wires and power input connections.

Wayne

Walt17506-04-2007 08:46 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Ah-HA! Thanks Wayne! :thanks:

cmacclel06-05-2007 09:29 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

If the trim pot is removed from the shark to fit the remora then how do you adjust the current output??

Mac

yellow06-05-2007 10:30 AMsee the dremora as a digital poti.
1st lighting up: 1st setting,
2nd: 2nd,
.
.
.
like in some other multilevel circuits


But how much current to the led(s) are the three levels?

dat2zip06-05-2007 10:51 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmacclel (Post 2030423)
If the trim pot is removed from the shark to fit the remora then how do you adjust the current output??

Mac

The Remora functionally replaces the trim pot with a microprocessor that digitally controls the Shark. The microprocessor has the smarts or UI programmed into it that allows you to toggle through the power levels using the power switch.

Wayne

cmacclel06-05-2007 11:09 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

I'm still not understanding it. So without the add on card I would adjust the potentiometer to the desired maximum output current.

Now with the Remora how is this attainable? Say I had a tri led setup and wanted 500ma max output on one application and say 1000ma max on a different application?

Mac

dat2zip06-05-2007 11:16 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow (Post 2030443)
see the dremora as a digital poti.
1st lighting up: 1st setting,
2nd: 2nd,
.
.
.
like in some other multilevel circuits


But how much current to the led(s) are the three levels?

The default resistor on the Shark sets maximum output to ~1A. Changing the sense resistor will set maximum output (high) to other levels. Medium is approximately 50% of high and low is less than 20% of high. The Shark control pin range varies from unit to unit and thus, the exact current varies from unit to unit and thus, an exact current is hard to predict.

Wayne

dat2zip06-05-2007 11:18 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmacclel (Post 2030467)
I'm still not understanding it. So without the add on card I would adjust the potentiometer to the desired maximum output current.

Now with the Remora how is this attainable? Say I had a tri led setup and wanted 500ma max output on one application and say 1000ma max on a different application?

Mac

With the Remora, you throw away the trim pot.

Brightness is now controlled by the microprocessor.

You can change the sense resistor (default 0.1 ohms) to 0.2 ohms to set full scale to 500mA. The medium and low will be relative to full scale which is set by the sense resistor.

Wayne

cmacclel06-05-2007 11:26 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Thanks Wayne......understood. I'll be ordering 5 of them plus a bunch of reflectors shortly.

Mac

Walt17506-06-2007 09:17 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Ok, I wired up my remora to my shark, and installed it in my tri-seoul maglite. It worked on only 1 level for a few minutes and now doesn't work at all. I tested a voltage and right now vf out = vf in. I'm getting 5.3v at the mag's switch, and 5.3v at the output of the shark. Apparently it's no longer boosting the voltage. Any ideas?

dat2zip06-07-2007 01:30 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Did you jumper across the pads of the trim pot on the Shark before installing the Remora board. If you forgot to jumper he trim pot the adjustment level will always be near zero and you might get an initial charge on that pin and then it could dissipate.

Wayne

Walt17506-07-2007 08:47 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Yes. I used a piece of leftover leg of a 5mm led to jump it with. I double checked all my connections before I powered it up. When I first turned it on it would be pretty bright for a split second. Then it would drop to a lower level. I tried turning it on and off to vary the level, and it did the same thing every time. I thought my battries might be too low, so I recharged them and tried again. That's when it stopped working all together.

dat2zip06-08-2007 12:17 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Did you test the Shark before installing the Remora?

What is your configuration? Battery voltage, LED(s).

When hooking up the Remora you connected the two holes that mate with the Shark and the wire from the Remora to the Shark as in the wiring diagram?

How are you testing it? Any additional information would be helpful.

Wayne

Walt17506-09-2007 09:49 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

PM sent.

c0t0d0s006-21-2007 07:50 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

I'm playing with the Shark/Remora combo right now... using it to power 3 SSC emitters. 20/50/100% levels are nicely spaced. The fact that it remembers the last used level positively rocks!

Anyway... it apears that the 100% drive current with Remora is a bit lower than with the pot - I measured 860 mA vs. 960 mA. Is that normal? Not that it makes any practical difference, but still...

dat2zip06-21-2007 04:04 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0t0d0s0 (Post 2036093)
I'm playing with the Shark/Remora combo right now... using it to power 3 SSC emitters. 20/50/100% levels are nicely spaced. The fact that it remembers the last used level positively rocks!

Anyway... it apears that the 100% drive current with Remora is a bit lower than with the pot - I measured 860 mA vs. 960 mA. Is that normal? Not that it makes any practical difference, but still...

Yes, that is quite possible. The exact voltage divider used to control the LED current should probably be slide upwards slightly so that 100% is 100%.

The total resistance tolerance of the trim pot used on the Shark is +/- 25% whereas the fixed resistor of 20K on the Remora that replaces the trim pot is a 1% tolerance which probably explains the difference. That would also mean in another case the max of the trim pot Version would be less and the Remora slightly more.

Either way, the 20k 1% resistor value on the Remora board should be recomputed so that it can generate 100% full scale on all units.

Wayne

c0t0d0s007-17-2007 10:43 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Thanks Wayne. Is this something that you're planning to do in future board revisions? Along with the low voltage fix?

dat2zip07-17-2007 05:41 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0t0d0s0 (Post 2044700)
Thanks Wayne. Is this something that you're planning to do in future board revisions? Along with the low voltage fix?

I doubt it. Considering that max output is soo close to full output. It's not something you can see.

There isn't really a low voltage fix. Due to the wide input voltage range it's more like two versions. One configuration for low voltage operations (~<6V) and a different configuration for greater than 6V operations.

Wayne

lasercrazy07-21-2007 06:42 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

<sarcasm>Hey wayne you couldn't make the holes any smaller? </sarcasm> Seriously what are you people connecting this to the shark with? I cant even get a leg taken from a 3mm led to fit in the holes on this damn board. What the hell am I supposed to use? I don't have anything smaller.

EDIT: I just tried a resistor leg since it's round instead of square and that didn't fit either.

dat2zip07-21-2007 09:03 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

There is a second set of holes (three in a row) if the little holes don't fit. Using the three hole set will offset the board and that may or may not work in your application.

The two hole set are 0.022" in diameter and will fit a 24AWG size wire in it. I would recommend tinning some 26AWG to make it stiff and solid and use the tinned 26AWG for the pegs or posts if you don't have anything else available.

Wayne

KrisP07-22-2007 12:02 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

My Remora didn't seem to work either. The shark was tested before installation and tested good, then when the Remora was fitted but I only have max brightness(measured 980mA). All the wiring is correct... I just want to know if I remove the Remora (cut the two legs and remove the wire) and leave the link on the pot pads, will the Shark work without the pot? The pot was disposed of when doing the original installation. The reason I wish to remove the Remora is because it's obviously dead and getting very hot, I can smell the components getting hot after a few seconds.

Input voltage was 9 x 1.5v = 13.5v (I used Alkalines to test)
Output voltage was 4 x Seoul P4 at 980mA, so about 14.8v

dat2zip07-22-2007 12:19 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisP (Post 2046295)
My Remora didn't seem to work either. The shark was tested before installation and tested good, then when the Remora was fitted but I only have max brightness(measured 980mA). All the wiring is correct... I just want to know if I remove the Remora (cut the two legs and remove the wire) and leave the link on the pot pads, will the Shark work without the pot? The pot was disposed of when doing the original installation. The reason I wish to remove the Remora is because it's obviously dead and getting very hot, I can smell the components getting hot after a few seconds.

Input voltage was 9 x 1.5v = 13.5v (I used Alkalines to test)
Output voltage was 4 x Seoul P4 at 980mA, so about 14.8v

I can take some of the blame on the Remora as the holes may not be as user friendly as possible.

When connecting the Remora, check the wiper connection (middle of the three holes) and verify it's not shorted to GND or Input. A solder blob to GND will turn the light to full off and a solder blob to battery input will more than likely go full output and exceed the control pin input voltage possibly damaging the Shark converter board.

Your configuration looks OK. What Components are getting hot. The remora draws nearly zero power and is dead cool. If any components on the Remora are getting hot there is definitely something wrong.

If something else is burning up then that could be an indication there is excessive voltage on the control line and this could be due to the wiper shorted to Vin. You can ohm these connection out to isolate what's wrong.

Removing the Remora should give you max power.

Wayne

KrisP07-22-2007 01:36 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dat2zip (Post 2046298)
Removing the Remora should give you max power.

Wayne

Thanks for the reply. I think i'll just remove it

lasercrazy07-22-2007 06:28 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dat2zip (Post 2046263)
There is a second set of holes (three in a row) if the little holes don't fit. Using the three hole set will offset the board and that may or may not work in your application.

The two hole set are 0.022" in diameter and will fit a 24AWG size wire in it. I would recommend tinning some 26AWG to make it stiff and solid and use the tinned 26AWG for the pegs or posts if you don't have anything else available.

Wayne


Wayne, thanks for the reply. After about 20 minutes of carefully sanding my led leg I was able to get them to fit. I guess I got one of the special boards cause mine also strobes.

KrisP07-30-2007 08:17 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

I cut the Remora off and the Shark still gets very hot, even with no load. The big square inductor on the Shark gets very hot but I didn't check any other components.

I think i'm going to give up and order something fresh... Wayne, can you please give me some advice?
I wish to run 4 Seoul's at 1A max with variable output via the stock press button switch of a Maglite. The input voltage is 6xNiMH AA(min 6v-max 9v) and the output will be about 14.8v at 1A.
Which step up and UI board would you recommend for this application?

Thanks

KrisP08-09-2007 01:26 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Well, I ordered a new Shark and Remora, joined them perfectly this time, tested before installing and found low and medium to work but when it went to high it quickly reverted back to low after about half a second. If the button was pressed again it would go to medium, then high for half a second and back to low. It seems like it's changing out of high by itself.
I assumed it was because of thin wires from the battery pack not allowing enough current to flow, so I installed it all hoping it would work when installed properly.
Unfortunately, it doesn't... I'm running 9 x AA Alkalines(13.5v) temporarily until I have the NiMH's and the load is 4 Seoul P4's (14.8v at 1A). The alkalines measured 12.8v so down a little but(i assume) more than enough to run the shark to output 14.8v. Anyway, I measured the current between the shark and batteries, on low it showed 140mA, medium showed ~450mA and high for the first split second showed 1.5A then reverted to 140mA. I'm really hoping it's the batteries causing it, but has anyone had this problem before?

Thanks

lasercrazy08-09-2007 10:45 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Isn't the shark only supposed to output 1 amp max? sounds like your shark is defective. I know it would be time consuming but I wish someone at the shoppe would test the boards. So far out of all the boards I've gotten from the shoppe (not many) 3 have been defective. These things aren't cheap.

dat2zip08-09-2007 02:33 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasercrazy (Post 2052734)
Isn't the shark only supposed to output 1 amp max? sounds like your shark is defective. I know it would be time consuming but I wish someone at the shoppe would test the boards. So far out of all the boards I've gotten from the shoppe (not many) 3 have been defective. These things aren't cheap.

Have you contacted us? Our policy is a replacement board in most cases.

Testing would drive the already high cost even higher.

Have you contacted us about it?

Wayne

dat2zip08-09-2007 02:36 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisP (Post 2052594)
Well, I ordered a new Shark and Remora, joined them perfectly this time, tested before installing and found low and medium to work but when it went to high it quickly reverted back to low after about half a second. If the button was pressed again it would go to medium, then high for half a second and back to low. It seems like it's changing out of high by itself.
I assumed it was because of thin wires from the battery pack not allowing enough current to flow, so I installed it all hoping it would work when installed properly.
Unfortunately, it doesn't... I'm running 9 x AA Alkalines(13.5v) temporarily until I have the NiMH's and the load is 4 Seoul P4's (14.8v at 1A). The alkalines measured 12.8v so down a little but(i assume) more than enough to run the shark to output 14.8v. Anyway, I measured the current between the shark and batteries, on low it showed 140mA, medium showed ~450mA and high for the first split second showed 1.5A then reverted to 140mA. I'm really hoping it's the batteries causing it, but has anyone had this problem before?

Thanks

The only thing I can think of is that when you switch to high the voltage at the Shark is dipping substantially causing the Remora to detect an drop or off state condition and switching based on this transition. Maybe, there is additional resistance in the tailcap, springs, contacts or other parts of the electrical path.

Wayne

KrisP08-09-2007 03:26 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

This is the same light that had the previous Shark/ Remora that would only run at high, so I don't think there is any resistance issues as it worked for that current previously. I'm hoping the batteries are just down and somehow preventing it from working properly.

Icarus08-09-2007 05:45 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dat2zip (Post 2036251)
Yes, that is quite possible. The exact voltage divider used to control the LED current should probably be slide upwards slightly so that 100% is 100%.

The total resistance tolerance of the trim pot used on the Shark is +/- 25% whereas the fixed resistor of 20K on the Remora that replaces the trim pot is a 1% tolerance which probably explains the difference. That would also mean in another case the max of the trim pot Version would be less and the Remora slightly more.

Either way, the 20k 1% resistor value on the Remora board should be recomputed so that it can generate 100% full scale on all units.

Wayne

Wayne, by what value do we have to replace the 20k 1% resistor on the remora to get ~ 1A output? :thinking:

 

[Greta]

And more....

dat2zip08-09-2007 08:03 PM
Re: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus (Post 2052820)
Wayne, by what value do we have to replace the 20k 1% resistor on the remora to get ~ 1A output? :thinking:

the 20k resistor needs to be changed to 28.7k to ensure 100% full brightness.

Wayne

KrisP08-10-2007 01:11 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

The NiMH batteries fixed it... I have HIGH now I guess the alkalines couldn't handle the current draw.

c0t0d0s008-10-2007 09:16 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

For the record: I've just put together a triple SSC Mag 1C, using Shark and Remora. This setup works fine on a single AW C size li-ion cell. The Shark does need proper heatsinking in this setup, as it's not running in most efficient mode and gets quite warm, yet it's still able to maintain ~850 mA on high just fine. Most notable, I had absolutely no issues with Remora running on a single cell, the modes switch just fine without the need to swap capacitors, as the advisory says.

Oh and BTW: I've never received a defective board from the Shoppe - out of a dozen or so.

Icarus08-11-2007 07:54 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dat2zip (Post 2052855)
the 20k resistor needs to be changed to 28.7k to ensure 100% full brightness.

Wayne

:thanks: Wayne for the quick answer. :thumbsup:
Will those resistors be offered at the shoppe?

dat2zip08-11-2007 08:42 PMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Well, As it turns out I've been getting reports that the initial turn on flash is present. I started looking into this on Friday and found it to be true.

I thought I had a solution in place and it was implemented. It took a while to get back up to speed on what was done and what the code does. I finally found the code to be fine and re-discovered the source of the problem.

The same capacitors that hold the uP alive also delay the uP from waking up. This occurs only on initial power up and the external control FET default drive level ends up turning on the shark to some level.

There is a resistor R5 on the Remora that is currently not loaded and if a 15k 0402 resistor is loaded in that spot it ensures the external FET puts the Shark in minimum output condition while the uP is not not awake.

I'm also looking into correcting my programming fixture. The holder shape is not quite right and the board is not held captive in the fixture. I believe I can re-cut the acrylic and correct this. If, so, I'm thinking of re-programming all the boards in batches for the two version and split the two version as separate products on the shoppe.

Anyone that would like to add the resistor themselves should contact the shoppe and I will work with them to send the necessary resistors for upping to 100% and to correct the startup flash issue.

Given some logistics involved, the re-programming of the Remora is dependant on fixing the fixture. Until the fixture is corrected I won't start any batch re-programming.

I will be taking batches of Remoras and putting the resistor on and will date release when these will affected.

Wayne

lasercrazy08-15-2007 10:31 AMRe: New REMORA: Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dat2zip (Post 2052776)
Have you contacted us? Our policy is a replacement board in most cases.

Testing would drive the already high cost even higher.

Have you contacted us about it?

Wayne

Yes, I did contact the shoppe and got no response. So far I have a shark that's only DD right out of the package for some reason (it also smelled wierd when I opened it, why?). A downboy 917 that's completely dead, unfortunately I forgot to test and found out after it was potted into the light. :smackhead: Also a GD 1amp that only gives about 500ma to the led. The GD is also potted into a light but works so that's not really a problem, it just has longer runtime.

 

[spencer]

Using a Remora, what current does the Shark output from each of the modes. I know high is 970mA but what is medium and what is low? I seem to remember coming across this information a long time ago but I can't find it now.

EDIT: Nevermind I found it. Med. is 50% and Low is 20%.

Thanks,
Spencer