Newbie Incan Flashaholic

[Centropolis]

I started this flashaholicism back in March of this year and I've only concentrated my time and money on LED flashlights. I am now thinking that I should get a couple of incans.

Since I am still relatively new to this hobby, I want to know what kind of mods or upgrades you can do on a couple of popular Surefire incans. I am sticking to SFs for now.

I guess I can go to DX and buy a P60-style incan drop-in for one of my G2L bodies but what kind of things can I do with a E1E for example?
If I buy a used E1E, what kind of things can do I to it besides buying a SF LED conversion head and swap it? I want to stick to incans and it's not a drop-in style. So if my bulb burns out one day.....what else can I do? Are there more efficient incan bulbs meaning same output as the stick E1E but better runtime?

Also, as I don't know how incans really work, can I run RCR123A in a E1E or other SF incans?

Sorry these are newbie questions.

 

[mdocod]

Sounds like you are itching to use li-ion cells, read this:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536

LumensFactory has a number of replacement bulbs for the E series SF incans that will work with 3.7V cells. Don't use a 3.7V cell with your stock bulb, you will blow it.

As for what types of things you can do with the G2.... If you have the aluminum bezel on it, then it can probably handle just about any lamp, so it just depends on what runtime to output ratio you are interested in. Compact high output incans have very short runtime, like 5-20 minute range, more conservative configurations can be put together as well.

Many people prefer to build larger configurations to have decent runtime and output. A 2x18650 C-C body from FM or Leef isn't a bad place to start, there are a lot of possible configurations, and most of them are listed in the charts below the guide in that link above. However, I am still working on putting in all the possible LiMn chemistry configurations that have become available as of recently. So more options will be added in time.

Eric

 

[kavvika]

You can run a RCR123A with the LF EO-E1R or HO-E1R.
You can run a primary CR123A with the LF HO-E1A or SF MN01.

With the high draw of the LF EO-E1R, it'd be a good match with AW's new IMR123A cell for something like 50 OTF lumens for at least a half hour. Now that's an incandescent EDC if I've ever seen one!

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

I started this flashaholicism back in March of this year and I've only concentrated my time and money on LED flashlights. I am now thinking that I should get a couple of incans.

Since I am still relatively new to this hobby, I want to know what kind of mods or upgrades you can do on a couple of popular Surefire incans. I am sticking to SFs for now.

I guess I can go to DX and buy a P60-style incan drop-in for one of my G2L bodies but what kind of things can I do with a E1E for example?
If I buy a used E1E, what kind of things can do I to it besides buying a SF LED conversion head and swap it? I want to stick to incans and it's not a drop-in style. So if my bulb burns out one day.....what else can I do? Are there more efficient incan bulbs meaning same output as the stick E1E but better runtime?

Also, as I don't know how incans really work, can I run RCR123A in a E1E or other SF incans?

Sorry these are newbie questions.

Get the Lumens Factory lamp assemblies and some AW RCR123 3.7V li-ion batteries. You'll be blown away with the results from this excellent upgrade.

www.lumensfactory.com

Batteries/charger here:

http://www.lighthound.com/AW-RCR123a-Protected-750-mAh-Battery_p_0-114.html

http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR163...MN-lithium-rechargeable-battery_p_0-2626.html

http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire-36-volt-or-3-volt-RCR123-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_6-2270.html

 

[rajanf1]

Let me append the message which Tomcat! sent me in a couple of PM between us. I hope he doesn't mind since it helped me out a lot too.

Hi,

I read in a thread that you were using a drop in incan LA in your SF E1e with a RCR123. What sort of runtime do you get out of this configuration? Is the LA a strion or a LF drop in?

Thanks in advance.

Hi there,
Yes I am but not for long. Basically I bought a Fivemega Strion drop-in for my E2e but was having problems getting it to work. Turned out it was the length of the Pila 17670 cell that stopped the LA from working. So in the mean time I tried it in the E1e as you said, but I'm not going to keep it in there. Although it is nice and bright, the run time is short. I haven't done a controlled test but I reckon it's only good for about 20-25 minutes before the protected AW 123 shuts down. Now that you've brought it up I'm curious so if I get time I'll test it.

Regards,
Tomcat!

and

Hi there Rajanf1.
While I was posting today I ran the E1e Strion test.

I topped off an AW protected RCR123 on a Pila IBC charger and measured the voltage at 3.83v before starting. Then I put the cell straight in and began. At 12 minute the E1e was too hot to handle as I had it resting on a stand and didn't use my hand to draw off any heat. The head was burning hot and the body was also very hot. You really couldn't hand hold this. At 19 minutes the brightness was noticeably lower, my Mk1 eyeball guess is 50% of the starting brightness. The cell protection kicked in at 20 min 30 sec and the final voltage was 3.35v. I'm guessing the heat might have had a lot to do with the early shutdown. I was a bit concerned and was tempted to stop the clock and switch off to let it cool down before continuing but instead I let it carry on. I think you could possibly squeeze a little more run time out by shutting down when the torch starts getting hot. Now you can see why I want to run that lamp in an E2e with an AW 17670.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Tomcat!

 

[mdocod]

wow, strion bulb on a RCR123? 1.66A? Heat and premature battery failure imminent... The 3.35V open circuit reading would make sense after protection shut it down, as the high current demands of the lamp would have been dragging the cell way down (to the 2.5V cutoff) towards the end, either way, 3.35V is basically dead, it got most of the juice out of the cell in that discharge. I'm amazed it ran for 20 minutes. Such a configuration would be more practical on a new IMR16340 cell, the runtime would be about the same ~20 minute, but it would certainly run brighter, and the cell would last a lot more cycles at that drain rate.

Eric

 

[rajanf1]

And would it be a good assumption that the heat would be tolerable in an IMR16340?

 

[mdocod]

it would get even hotter on an IMR16340 if ran continuously as the IMR16340 would deliver more energy during the discharge. The IMR16340 cell may be better suited to tolerate the heat without as much damage, but I would not advise running any flashlight continuously that reaches temperatures too hot to handle. Use t hose configurations in shorter bursts an the heat isn't a problem.

Eric

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Get the Lumens Factory lamp assemblies and some AW RCR123 3.7V li-ion batteries. You'll be blown away with the results from this excellent upgrade.

www.lumensfactory.com

Batteries/charger here:

http://www.lighthound.com/AW-RCR123a-Protected-750-mAh-Battery_p_0-114.html

http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR163...MN-lithium-rechargeable-battery_p_0-2626.html

http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire-36-volt-or-3-volt-RCR123-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_6-2270.html

Are the 6v lamps the ones you are running with the 2 IMR 3.7v cells (the EO-6)? I dont want any at 15$ per bulb.

Can this mod be in a SF G2, or will I have a melt down?

 

[Sgt. LED]

What is your bezel and lens made of?

 

[mdocod]

Hi vestureofblood,

for 2xIMR16340, you have all the same D26 options you could run on 2x18650 cells. But in a smaller host, sacrificing runtime for smaller size. So that means "9V" or "7.4V" style lamp assemblies. When the G2 is used as a host, a maximum heat limitation needs to be taken into consideration, as the polymer body and plastic lens can't handle as much heat. So the HO-9 is a good point to stop at.

Eric

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Thanks Mdocod,

In this type of setup since nominal voltage is 7.4 will using the 7.4 and 9v bulbs give a yellowish light (like an under driven/or @ spec welch allyn)?

 

[mdocod]

CAN OF WORMS:

There is no easy short answer, so here goes:

The whiteness and efficiency of a bulb has a lot to do with how "hard" it is driven. As you know.

The way bulb manufactures rate bi-pin bulbs in the "normal" bulb industry is different than the way bulb manufactures rate bulbs in the "flashlight" industry.

Most WA bulbs, and other medical/scientific bulbs, are designed with a 50-200 hour lifespan when driven to spec. Most tactical flashlight bulbs are designed to achieve ~15-30 hours of life when driven to spec on the number and type of batteries they are designed to be matched up to.

In the flashlight industry, there is not really a standard practice, so you just have to know what you are dealing with.

Consumers see a 3V battery and assume 3V operation. So manufactures of tactical lamp assemblies must use a number that a consumer can grasp. So lamps like the P90 are called a "9V" lamp. In reality, CR123s at ~1.2A load, operate at around 2.5V per cell. So a "9V" tactical lamp assembly actually has a bulb inside of it that is designed to operate ~7.5V for around 15-30 hours before failure.

As it turns out, a pair of li-ion cells will deliver a very similar operating voltage as a set of 3 CR123s. So there isn't much difference in the performance. When moving up to large li-ion cells, like a pair of 18650s, and HOLA lamps, like the P91, the pair of 18650s actually drive the P91 harder than 3xCR123s because the CR123s literally sag to about 2.2V per cell (it's a ~6.6V bulb design), while a pair of 18650s will push that bulb up ~7.5V give or take, which results in some pretty impressive overdrive at the risk of premature bulb failure.

IMR16340s perform about as well as a pair of 17500s driving a bulb. But with half the runtime.

Eric

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Thanks again Mdocod,

I'm glad for the long version explanation. I am always grateful when someone is willing to take the time to expound on an idea so that I can grasp the "science" of it rather than just following a set of instructions. With this in mind I can not only apply the knowledge to the current application I can use it in the future to obtain a desired result.

 

[mdocod]

Thanks again Mdocod,

I'm glad for the long version explanation. I am always grateful when someone is willing to take the time to expound on an idea so that I can grasp the "science" of it rather than just following a set of instructions. With this in mind I can not only apply the knowledge to the current application I can use it in the future to obtain a desired result.

exactly

It has been my experience that short-winded answers only cause more questions and can just lead to greater confusion.

Eric

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Does anyone know if the lumens factory dropins like the 9v D26 series will fit in a knock off like a solar force?

I was also wandering what light the D36 lamps are for?

 

[mdocod]

The SolarForce L2 is pretty much entirely surefire compatible, it's a 6P knockoff, probably a G&P re-badge. and they even have a 1x18650 body available for it. The bezels/tailcaps/lamps are swappable for "C" compatible SureFire parts. They even make 1 cell extenders that can be used on the L2 and other SureFire compatible lights to turn it into a 9P or 12P size light. The rest of the SolarForce lineup appears to be pretty proprietary. I think most would agree that the SolarForce L2 is one of those gems in the rough that has a lot of potential and is actually fairly reliable. They do use a typical reverse clickie though, but that reverse clickie is arguably more reliable than SureFires forward clicking Z59.

D36 lamps are for Wolf-Eyes and Pila mini-turbo bezels. The LumensFactory D36 lamps will only fit in the Pila GL4 and Wolf-Eyes M90 IIRC, they are a little bit too bulky to fit in the smaller mini-turbo bezels found in the 6 and 9 series.

FiveMega also did a run of some D36 compatible flashlights than ran on 18mm cells. There might still be some available....

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Ok great.

I have finally made a decision and a purchase. I ordered a Solarforce with two of the extenders you mentioned, along with an EO-9 lamp, and 2 of AWs IMR16340 cells. For now I am going to check out the run time with those (for an EDC) and if run time is insufficient I may bore it out for 2x18650s later. I hope Centropolis is getting as much out of his thread as I am

 

[mdocod]

Runtime is 15 minutes. Check the li-ion incan guide/compatibility chart for more information about these configurations, I have updated it with a large number of "IMR" setups.