Newbie needs light...Help?

Steelwolf

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
1,208
Location
Perth, Western Australia
As Signals mentioned, there are no LEDs at the present moment that can compete with incandescents for long-throw, though some LED flashlights can deliver a very bright beam. The difficulty at the moment is that all LEDs come with a lens which is unable to focus as tightly as a parabolic reflector on a standard flashlight can. 20degrees versus a mere 3 degrees for some of those "million" candlepower lights.

You could put a lot together and get a very bright beam, but it still wouldn't focus. You could try and remove the lens and mount a huge array of LEDs in a parabolic reflector, but each LED is a point source, and the array takes up quite a bit of space, so that only a few could be in the point-of-focus of the reflector, so you're back to square one. You could give each LED its own reflector, but then you're getting into ridiculous sizes. And since each LED only produces a small amount of light, you would need alot to approach daylight.

Currently, the brightest LED is the Luxeon Star, commonly called the LS. One commercially built flashlight with this LED is the Arc-LS. Some forumites have also built their own flashlights around this LED. But the same problem remains, that the lens or collimator is built to focus only, I think, 20 degrees. There is a solution where one company has built a drop-in replacement bulb for the Mag-Light using the LS. The LS bulb can be focused with the Mag-light like any ordinary bulb, but it only delivers 17lumens, which is bright, but not quite as bright as the Mag-light's own halogen bulb.

Of course, the true advantage of LEDs are that they are robust and that the light doesn't yellow as the batteries die. Lumens per Watt efficiency is still only in the range of Xenon bulbs.

If you really want a seriously bright light, you'll have to look in to HIDs. Surefire is coming out with one, as Signals mentioned, but here and now, Underwater Kinetics has the Light Cannon. It is probably as robust as HID lights can get, being housed in a dive-capable polycarbonate housing. Since it was designed for diving, the entire package is not overly bulkly as some other HID packages can be. It is not the brightest available as it only uses a 10W HID, and higher wattages HIDs are available, but it seems to be the toughest of all. (We will have to wait and see what SureFire comes out with as they are also reknown for tough lights, though not dive-proof.)

As in all cases, you don't get a free lunch. The huge power output of HIDs demand larger batteries and the Light Cannon requires 8 C-cells while others may have built-in rechargeables or use D-cells. And the LightCannon only runs approx. 2hours. HIDs need some electronics to make it run and they have a warm-up period of a few seconds to reach operating temperature. The HID bulb is glass, so it can be broken. Also, they cannot come in really small packages like LED flashlights can because of all the power involved. But they deliver really bright, white daylight and they have better Lumens per Watt efficiency than LEDs.

HIDs for incredible brightness but at the price of bulk and batteries. LEDs for ultimate solid state robustness, comparably longer runtimes, but not as bright.

Hope this answers your questions.
 
I use a lot of lights for work...I do environmental consulting....so a mix of outdoor (Looking up into tall trees at night...or caves, etc...) and indoor (Dark Crawl spaces, basements of old buildings, up into roof areas from the ground in warehouses, etc...)

I use an assortment of halogen/xenon spot lights (1 - 3 million CP)...great long range light, heavy and cumbersome for close work...short run times;

2 - 4 D cell /6 v drycell halogen/xenon flashlights, better close up, still inconvenient when other equipment is in use too;

"Escape lights" ...AA or AAA mini lights that fit into a pocket for when the big light falls and breaks/batteries die...to let me get out alive.

These areas can be full of toxic waste, pits, holes, rotten walkways, muck of various depths, rats/ROUS, roaches, bats, corpses and pre-corpses, etc.

Also - UV light and other non-visible wave lengths come in handy for microbial and other applications....

It seems that for the same form factor, the LED lights produce 1/5 to 1/10 the lumens?....but for a long time, without breaking as easily?

For example, if I wanted to be able to inspect at daylight level intensity a surface that was 50' away, and 10' across, there are no LEDs available?

What's the smallest (Smallest thing to hold) xenon or halogen flashlight that could do that for comparitive purposes?

I have a lot of lights, so maybe I am a closet member of this sect....my wife says I seem to be collecting them....I'm in denial though...just fighting darkness in my own way.....

As you all seem to be pre-occupied, and even occupied, with lighting issues...maybe you could make some suggestions?


- TJ
 
TJ,

I'm sure you probably have already checked them out, but SureFire makes some REALLY bright lights in quite small packages. They are incandescant though.. Quite possibly the best incandescant flashlight around though.

SureFire is supposed to be releasing "The Beast" sometime in the near future. It's a relatively small (for it's light output) handheld flashlight with an HID bulb. They are claiming ~2500 Lumens! The SureFire catalog says something about being able to light something up 600 yards away...

Otherwise, on the solid state front, I'm a Luxeon Star convert. My main weapon of choice is an LS modded MagLite. You might want to check out what Lambda is doing with his Illuminator, it might be the ultimate 'Escape Light.' Or sit tight and wait for the 5 Watt Luxeon devices to come out (June?) if bright is your primary concern. I believe Lumileds says that the 5W version can make 120 Lumens at rated current, as opposed to 28ish in the current 1W versions. (But those numbers are from memory, and might be horribly wrong.)

Otherwise, LEDs have their place in the world, but when super bright, or long throwing distance are your primary concerns, LEDs aren't yet the answer. Just wait a year or two though
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-Kevin
 
If you want to inspect something that's 50' away and 10' across, and you want a "small" xenon or halogen light to do it with, check out the Surefire E2 or E2e. In my opinion (...and a lot of other's opinions on this forum...), it's the best size to light ratio xenon light on the market. SF's are a bit pricey, but ya get what ya pay for...check out the General Flashlight and Headlight forum
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...BTW, welcome aboard!

PJD

...there is nothing in the world more frustrating than a lousy beam...
 
I also suggest a Surefire E2/E2e. $76.50

If you want less expensive options:
PT Surge (8 AA batteries & longest battery life) ~$25
Streamlight Scorpion (2 123's) ~$30
Brinkmann Legend LX (2 123's) ~$20

Soon Surefire will release the A2, it is a little bigger than the E2 and uses both LEDs and a Xenon bulb. That way you are only using the amount of light you need, saving battery life.
 
Actually....are there rechargeable versions of these things?...Those lithium batteries are expensive....I have NiCads and NMHDs...Any of these lights take rechargeables?

I see the sizes, but don't know if the lights won't work with other battery types....or if "123's" are available in a rechargeable version, etc...
 
Hehehe
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You've stumbled across the main reason why I prefer UKE lights over SureFire. Don't get me wrong. The SureFire range of lights probably give you the best size vs light output, but you are, I believe, always going to have to use those rather expensive 123s.

If you don't mind the extra bulk, UKE lights will give you almost as good a beam as the SureFires, but only need your standard alkalines (which means that they can take rechargeables too). The added bonus is that you can take the UKEs swimming with you, in case you need to go wading in a swamp or a sewer system. I think the SureFires are only immersion proof.

If you do decide to go with UKEs, the I've found that the SL4, which takes 4 C-cells, has a tighter beam than the Q40, which takes 4 AA cells. They both throw the beam very nicely, but naturally, the further you want to illuminate, the tighter you would want your beam. You can go to http://www.uwkinetics.com/ie/ to take a look at them. I guess any larger and you probably wouldn't want to bring them along anymore than you want to bring your current lot of flashlights.

Or head over to http://www.surefire.com to check out the Surefire range of lights. The 8NX, 8AX and 10X Dominator are rechargeables and could be what you're looking for, but they appear to require a special battery to run. I'm getting out of my range here as I only have limited experience with the E1 and E2. Someone who has handled SureFires more should chip in soon.

Of course you could do your own mod....
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SureFire Rechargeables use NiCad battery sticks.

The likes of the 8NX/8AX (Polymer/Aluminium) and the 9AN (Aluminium) use the B90 NiCad Battery. Each flashlight comes with TWO B90's as standard. Recharging is performed in under 2 hours by a rapid/smart charger powered by AC mains or from your Auto (both supplied)

I suggest you locate a SureFire Dealer in your area to see these flashlights for yourself.

Al
 
Al (size15s): About those SureFire NiCds. Are they the equivalent of a couple of AA rechargeables stuck end on end or are they a special size, like those rechargeable 123s that were being discussed in another thread?
 
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