Newbie Questions about Batteries and Flashlights

[natenkiki2004]

Firstly, I'm new to the forums and excited to inform and educate myself with the help of you fine people. I have done some research, some with the help of this site and I think I have a pretty decent base to start on but I would like opinions and possibly suggestions for better use of my money/time.

Currently I only have 1 device that actively uses rechargeable batteries. This is partly due to the incompatibility with other devices requiring the extra voltage and just not operating. The one device I have is my digital camera that takes 2x AA. Right now, I only have 1 pair and they're older than some of my other NiMH's that have died recently. Being who I am, I want to learn what "quality" is in this field so I don't spend my time wasting money on bad products. I've never owned any "quick chargers" that were labeled as such, however I think this compact AA charger I got with a bundle kit for my camera does just that and I think it is the reason why I only have 2 rechargeable batteries that hold a charge for more than an hour. I have at least 6 other NiMH that I can charge, put in the camera and the next day it's like I don't even have batteries in the camera anymore. Anyway, the charger I have is an Energizer Universal Charger. With having only 2 AA's that hold a charge I think I have an opportunity to re-think a charger and new batteries. With overwhelming recommendations, I'm looking at the Maha Powerex MH-C9000 and some Sanyo Eneloops. For just 2 camera batteries I'm sure a lot of people would say it's not worth it. Yet if I spend the money and get something decent including batteries, I can find several uses. Wall clocks, wireless mouse, flashlights (which is something else I've come here to talk about). So, now you know a bit about what I have, time for questions

Questions:
Is it worth it to get the Maha charger and some Eneloops for a camera, wall clock, wireless mouse, flashlight(s) and possibly a remote or two? Oh, and maybe for reviving a couple of those NiMH's I have that won't keep their charge for 24 hours?
What can be done about devices that require the voltage that Alkaline's have but NiMH's don't?
What battery "technology" is best investing in now?

Flashlight:
I know the Maha and Eneloops come with volumes of positive reviews, yet I'm not sure on this next item. I've been wanting a great flashlight for quite some time now, specifically a LED. Something that lasts a while, something I can use outside and actually see and something for random tasks. I saw a thread rating flashlights and looked at the price and features and saw one that struck me:
"UltraFire Cree C3 5-Mode Flashlight with 2xAA Extension Tube Bundle"
Anyone have experience with this? Recommendations for it?

I think I covered most of my concerns. Thanks in advance to those who respond

 

[Conan]

Getting a Maha charger and Eneloops means you're definitely on the right track. But using Eneloops to power clocks and remotes would put those batteries to waste. Just buy some Alkaline AA's for those.

Ultrafire flashlights are a bit on the "low end" side of the market. If you want to go with AA powered lights I suggest you look at Fenix, Quark and maybe ITP/Olight. My Eagletac P20A2 is also one of the brightest lights in the 2AA category.

 

[Black Rose]

But using Eneloops to power clocks and remotes would put those batteries to waste.

I agree with one exception.

If you have a remote such as one of the Harmony brand remotes, then using Eneloops in a remote would be fine (those Harmony remotes are fairly battery hungry).

 

[tylernt]

Is it worth it to get the Maha charger and some Eneloops for a camera, wall clock, wireless mouse, flashlight(s) and possibly a remote or two?

I found myself in your situation just a couple of weeks ago. I got some Eneloops for my camera and flashlight and so far they are working great.

As for remotes, clocks, and mice etc, it depends on your time horizon for ROI. In a wall clock, for example, a $2 Eneloop is replacing a 25¢ alkaline which lasts a year: that's 8 years to break even. At some point yeah, I might do it, but the marginal benefit puts it low on my priority list for such devices.

Another place I considered Eneloops is my outdoor wireless thermometer sensor. In the winter, though, the cold + lower NiMH voltage probably means Eneloops will struggle.

Ultimately I'll probably be putting Eneloops in anything that eats a pair of cells in less than a year (or 1 cell in 6mo). That's just my conclusion though.

What can be done about devices that require the voltage that Alkaline's have but NiMH's don't?

Used to be, your other option was rechargable alkalines. However if you deep-discharge them, they would only last a handful of cycles and recharging them frequently when they reach 80% gets old fast. I also haven't seen any in stores lately, so I think they're obsolete. Fortunately there is a better option, and that's the Nickel-Zinc (NiZn) battery. Not sure how capacity compares to Eneloops though, you could probably search this forum to find some reviews.

 

[45/70]

I pretty much am in agreement with what has already been said, being an eneloop fan myself. I also am a C-9000 fan (I own three), there are a few other good chargers out there as well however, if you aren't really into analyzing all that much.

As far as digital cameras, I have two, a 4AA point and shoot, and a 4AA DSLR. The eneloops far exceed all other chemistry cells for performance, with the exception of CRV3's and AA lithium primaries. The eneloops even have an edge over Li-Ion RCRV3 rechargeables.

Concerning your question about voltage sensitive devices, I'll say one thing about the eneloops. Even among their competitors in the LSD segment, the eneloops are capable of holding a higher voltage under load than any of the others. This applies during the actual discharge, as well as the ability to hold voltage over calendar months as well. If a NiMH cell arraignment is going to work, eneloop's will be the most likely to succeed, because of this ability to provide a slightly higher voltage.



Dave

 

[Mr Happy]

OK, a few thoughts. I have Eneloops and C9000 myself and it's a good combination. It will suit every need except traveling (the C9000 is a bit bulky to pack for a journey).

Over time I have tended to buy more Eneloops than I actually have devices to put them in, so I can use them in anything that needs a battery. It also means I have tended to buy AA/AAA powered things so I can use rechargeable batteries in them. Right now I use Eneloops in camera, wireless mouse, weather station, Harmony remote, electric toothbrush, powered screwdriver, electronic scale, flashlights, and the occasional clock. I don't buy alkalines any more, I just use up the stock that came free with things.

As for reviving, you won't be able to revive cells that become empty in days. This is the "high self-discharge problem" that is common with Energizer cells among others, and once they start doing that it is not recoverable.

On flashlights, the kind of low cost light you can get on-line from China is best seen as an experiment. Do not expect the kind of quality and durability you might find in a US made light. You might be pleased with the light or you might find problems. Moderate your expectations relative to the selling price.

 

[alfreddajero]

I also agree with the above statements.....good combo to get.

 

[45/70]

On flashlights, the kind of low cost light you can get on-line from China is best seen as an experiment. Do not expect the kind of quality and durability you might find in a US made light. You might be pleased with the light or you might find problems. Moderate your expectations relative to the selling price.

Yeah, well, I did say "pretty much".

Dave

 

[alfreddajero]

You can always use the Travel charger that comes with the eneloops.......great charger for on the go.

 

[natenkiki2004]

Wow, thanks everybody for the overwhelming help and responses I'll try to get everything I want to say in as well as reply to some statements. FYI, any part of your post that I cut out in the quote does not mean it was useless to me, I do appreciate every bit of advice but I only want to reply to some specific things and make this post a bit smaller.

But using Eneloops to power clocks and remotes would put those batteries to waste. Just buy some Alkaline AA's for those. Ultrafire flashlights are a bit on the "low end" side of the market. If you want to go with AA powered lights I suggest you look at Fenix, Quark and maybe ITP/Olight. My Eagletac P20A2 is also one of the brightest lights in the 2AA category.

Probably but if I have enough real high-demand devices, I don't see a problem using the left-over in the 8-pack or whatever, in other devices. I want to buy quality so I can have reliability and longevity. For the flashlights, thanks for the recommendations, I will research those. The Eagletac looks a bit spendy but again, I would pay double what I normally would on a average or crappy product to get something that will last much longer.

If you have a remote such as one of the Harmony brand remotes, then using Eneloops in a remote would be fine.

I don't but I do have one of those DirecTV universal remotes that seems to suck a lot of power, that's about all I would use it in.

I found myself in your situation just a couple of weeks ago. I got some Eneloops for my camera and flashlight and so far they are working great.

As for remotes, clocks, and mice etc, it depends on your time horizon for ROI. In a wall clock, for example, a $2 Eneloop is replacing a 25¢ alkaline which lasts a year: that's 8 years to break even. At some point yeah, I might do it, but the marginal benefit puts it low on my priority list for such devices.

Another place I considered Eneloops is my outdoor wireless thermometer sensor. In the winter, though, the cold + lower NiMH voltage probably means Eneloops will struggle.

Used to be, your other option was rechargable alkalines. However if you deep-discharge them, they would only last a handful of cycles and recharging them frequently when they reach 80% gets old fast. I also haven't seen any in stores lately, so I think they're obsolete. Fortunately there is a better option, and that's the Nickel-Zinc (NiZn) battery. Not sure how capacity compares to Eneloops though, you could probably search this forum to find some reviews.

Good to see that there's other people in my situation and to hear personal feedback. Again, the remotes/wall clocks would only be filled with Eneloops if I had spare ones. I wouldn't buy a new pack of Eneloops just to pull 1 out and put it in a wall clock. If I have a couple left over from an almost used pack, sure. I did forget to mention that I have a thermometer as well, it EATS the batteries. Unfortunately when I put 2x Energizer 2500mah NiMH in there they didn't work. The outdoor sensor takes 2xAAA and I'm not sure if I tried them. My experience might have been flawed though since unknown to me at the time, my cheapie Sony charger probably ruined some cells perhaps damaging voltage or not charging fully or something. I did read a bit about NiZn batteries but what I did see was a whole lot of unknowns and some over-volting.

I also am a C-9000 fan (I own three), there are a few other good chargers out there as well however, if you aren't really into analyzing all that much.

Concerning your question about voltage sensitive devices, I'll say one thing about the eneloops. Even among their competitors in the LSD segment, the eneloops are capable of holding a higher voltage under load than any of the others. This applies during the actual discharge, as well as the ability to hold voltage over calendar months as well. If a NiMH cell arraignment is going to work, eneloop's will be the most likely to succeed, because of this ability to provide a slightly higher voltage.

Analyzing... I'm not too into that. Mostly because I've never done it. I've always put the batteries in and when the LED changes I pull them out. If I knew more about the process and how to properly charge/discharge/restore batteries, I'm sure I would love the features of the C9000. Thanks for the voltage knowledge on the Eneloops, that's calming my worries a bit

OK, a few thoughts. I have Eneloops and C9000 myself and it's a good combination. It will suit every need except traveling (the C9000 is a bit bulky to pack for a journey).

As for reviving, you won't be able to revive cells that become empty in days. This is the "high self-discharge problem" that is common with Energizer cells among others, and once they start doing that it is not recoverable.

I won't need it for traveling much, although if I do, I wouldn't mind the extra bulk That's sad about my Energizer cells. I do have some Sony cells that were bought after the Energizer cells and died before the Energizers did. I used these primarily in that Sony cheapie charger which I am highly certain is the cause of the deaths. I did use some of the Energizers in there once or twice...

You can always use the Travel charger that comes with the eneloops.......great charger for on the go.

I'm sure it's engineered for the Eneloops but how is it in terms of quality?



Again thanks to everyone that replied

 

[alfreddajero]

For a travel charger or everyday use charger it does the job.....you can charge one cell or up too 4 cells, it even does AAA's as well. I can tell you right now to ditch the 2500's, they had problems from the start.....please do a search on those cells and you will know what i mean.

 

[rumack]

natenkiki2004, :welcome:

Absolutely there are others here in a situation similar to yours. I am one of them! Like you, I am learning a lot from the highly experienced folks here at CPF. I think your choice of the Maha C9000 and Eneloops gives you a great foundation. I don't have a Maha C9000 yet myself, but I will get one just as soon as I am able.

I have decided to go a step further in distancing myself from alkalines. Once I have exhausted my current supply of AA/AAA alkalines, I don't plan to buy any more unless I have an emergency that requires them. I plan to use Eneloops for any AA/AAA device I have, whether the device really needs them or not. Eneloops are certainly overkill for something like an average wall clock, but I have had too many AA alkalines leak (name brands, not off brands BTW) to continue using them. Granted that is a bit of an extreme reaction on my part, but I'm tired of being burned.

As for flashlights, I think you would have a hard time going wrong with buying something from Fenix, Quark, Nitecore, etc. They aren't cheap, but to me the quality is worth the price difference between them and the ultra cheap Chinese lights. I have seen a number of people here report their ultra cheap light required repair right out of the box. If you're good with that then go for it, but that's not for me.

 

[natenkiki2004]

alfreddajero, I may just get the Sanyo Power Pack here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NSX60I/?tag=cpf0b6-20

The D spacers would be nice since I have a flashlight that uses them. I would only need 1 AAA battery so 2 would mean I would have one on standby to swap out. If the charger isn't terrible, I think this would be the way for me to start out and perhaps purchase the C9000 down the road when I learn more.

I will check out these flashlight brands when I get more ready to buy one. I have probably 5 or so various maglights that do an ok job but I've always wanted a quality light that does excellent. Thanks!

 

[alfreddajero]

There you go, nice starting package to begin with. When your able to read up do a search on the maha chargers and just skim through the threads, and like you said later on down the road when your ready for a high quality charger then get it, you will love it. Sorry but i dont anymore mags, there too big and bulky for my taste especially since the lights i own are mostly one celled lights.

 

[tylernt]

I did forget to mention that I have a thermometer as well, it EATS the batteries. Unfortunately when I put 2x Energizer 2500mah NiMH in there they didn't work.

Eneloops have a lower internal resistance which means that devices can sometimes tolerate Eneloops better than other types of NiMH. So you might give them a shot in this device, you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[r1gm1n]

NiZn rechargable AA batteries and their charger are available on-line now. 1.6 volt per cell chemistry. Amazon has them and has other distribtors partnered. If you do not have rechargables and NiMH rechargers yet, you might want to start off with NiZn before you have too much invested in NiMH.

 

[lightsandknives]

Another vote for the C9000 and Eneloops. I've been using that combination for some time now, and while I have a pretty large stash of alkaline batteries, in any high drain device I have, it will be loaded with Eneloops. I do a lot of photography, and have multiple flashes loaded with Eneloops. I probably have 25 Eneloops and/or Duraloops.....

 

[natenkiki2004]

Eneloops have a lower internal resistance which means that devices can sometimes tolerate Eneloops better than other types of NiMH. So you might give them a shot in this device, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Will do. You're the 2nd person to say that so I'm getting hopeful

NiZn rechargable AA batteries and their charger are available on-line now. 1.6 volt per cell chemistry. Amazon has them and has other distribtors partnered. If you do not have rechargables and NiMH rechargers yet, you might want to start off with NiZn before you have too much invested in NiMH.

My concern is have they been on the market long enough? Have they been tried and tested? Also, what's this I read about bricked electronics?

 

[Conan]

Will do. You're the 2nd person to say that so I'm getting hopeful




My concern is have they been on the market long enough? Have they been tried and tested? Also, what's this I read about bricked electronics?

I also have NiZn batteries but my advice to you is to avoid them unless you absolutely need them. Their voltage is a bit on the high side. If you have power hungry devices that work better with AA Lithiums then that's when you should consider NiZn batteries.

 

[r1gm1n]

My concern is have they been on the market long enough? Have they been tried and tested?

No.

Lithium rechargables have been on the market longer and have been tried and tested. People deal with them because they want the power. Fortunately the chemistry does not lend itself to 1.5v AA. Imagine all the kids with unprotected Chinese knockoffs this X-mas.

NiMH has been on the market long enough. They have been tried and tested. No matter how long you try or how heavy you market them, the chemistry just won't let them go to 1.5v .

Don't get me wrong, I love the Duraloop. It's what I send the grandkids with their toys. But what Sanyo has done, is figure out how to keep the voltage above the cutoff level on consumer electronics and LSD. They have not figured out how to squeeze blood from a turnip.

Also, what's this I read about bricked electronics?

I've read about a guy that tested his UNDERWATER strobe in his living room and reported that it over-heated the lens. I've read about a Nikon strobe that over-heated because the "tester" snapped the strobe as quick as the batteries would recharge the capacitor but did not think about letting it cool down between flashes.

Your post mentioned a digital camera that uses AA's. Mine is a Canon PowerShot A1100 and it was love at first sight. I have read many other camera owners increased number of shots per charge. I have never read of anyone breaking their camera.

Your post also mentioned LED flashlights. The kind you are talking about have protection built into the circuit to protect them from flashaholics and their lithium. MORE POWER .

I have read about NiZn from PowerGenix not working in some applications, but that's a different story for a different thread.

If you really have read about bricked electronics, PLEASE let me know. Right now, more out of curiousity than rigorous testing, I have them in my camera, Mini MagLites, bicycle headlight, Duracell 3W, Braun electric shaver, Accurite "Atomic" clock. Radio Shack scanner, SW Radio, AA powered speakers, and have D adapters for use in some other things. I have not had the nerve to try them in a Yamaha keyboard, yet.