Nichia 10x

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Next Monday I will be having a visit with a Nichia rep to see their new 10X power led's.
FYI - see their March 4 press release at: http://www.nichia.co.jp/highpowerled-e.htm

Seems as if Nichia is going to compete with Lumileds in the big units general illumination area.

I'll let you all know how it looks. I'm hoping for a sample.

 

[L.E.D.]

I think lumileds will come out with something brighter and better.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

these lights last 50000 to 100,000 hrs.

Isn't that five to 10 times what the luxeon stars can do? that's a tremendous advance over the luxeon star if that's the case.

 

[Evan]

I'm sure Lumileds will come out with something brighter, definitely measured in Lumens and not IQ points.

Why is it so many large companies treat hobbiests as the enemy, while others will give them free samples?

All I want to do is buy their product at a reasonable markup for them to make a reasonable profit; and they treat me like dirt rather than sell me anything.

Good for nichia, clearly they've made a lot of friends in this group. So will Future handle their stuff at something less than a 200% markup, with all items in stock rather than a constantly changing random selection?
(Actually Future has at least 1 very nice and helpful salesperson; good but no substiture for having what I want available in small quantities.)

And while I'm grumbling, what is going on with the millicandela specs? I bought some blue 3000 millicandela LEDs from Electronic Goldmine. A few months later, I saw 10,000 millicandela blue LEDs in the Jameco catalog and said to my self "cool, more than 3x". But when I got them and compared them, they are almost exactly the same LED, same brightness, same beam size; only about as different as 2 LEDs from the same lot.

So are the new Nichia 10x power LEDs measured in old candelas or new candelas?

 

[L.E.D.]

Jeebob:
gee bob, yer wrong there. the LS last 100,000 hrs. long also, it just depends on how hard you drive the LED. If you overdrove either the LS or the nichia 10x, it would bring down those figures. whose LED lasts longer at the same current depends on whose LED is heatsinked better, and whose LED has a better phosphor formula (for LED's which uses phosphor for wavelength shifts). (read about the pink phosphor at The LED museum)

Evan:
too bad the guys are Lumiled's are ***holes. well, I guess I'm not talking about personell attitude, I'm talking about them coming out with a brighter, better product, even though it IS pretty important that their employees not be jerks. Sad to hear that.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
But when I got them and compared them, they are almost exactly the same LED, same brightness, same beam size<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luminosity only measures the brightest part of the beam.

You should find that the 10cd LED has a much brighter spot in the middle of the beam than the 3cd one.

Put another way, you should find that the 10cd LED is visible from a greater distance, although the viewing angle may be very tight.

 

[Evan]

So The bightness of 20mA LEDs isn't really going up, only the precision of the focus?

So if there is a real jump in efficiency, a part that gets more light out of the power you put in, how will I recognize it?

Regarding my grumbles, they are not so much specifically about Lumileds or Future, but my general experience whenever I go for first-run parts from real suppliers instead of the varous surplus places that cater to hobbyists. I always run into the minimum quantity bugaboo; They are $10 each but you have to by 50; They are 75 cents each, but you have to by 1000.

So what do I want out of a company with an interresting new product? I'd like them to lean on the distributers to offer the part in reasonable quantities, and failing that, offer a "prototyper's kit" direct from the source which provides some number and selection of the new product that strikes a balence between the producer being nickle and dimed by lots of people who want to buy just one, and minimum quantities that lock most hobbyests out. In the case of the Luxeon star, that might have been a kit with one of every color in some style, plus perhaps a few extras in white of other styles. Throw in hardcopy of specs and application notes, and make the whole kit sell for something under $100. This might be the same kit they would give away to hot sales prospects. Such a kit would not be better than making sure the distributers will sell the product in reasonable minimum quantities, but it would be entirely in the manufacturers control.

Different hobbiests are willing to put out different amounts of money. So here's some questions:

If a manufacturer was releasing a new product, such as Nichea and its 10x LEDs, and they were setting a minimum quantity, what would that minimum be? If they were willing to put together one package they would sell to anybody who calls; what would that package contain and what would the target price be?

 

[lambda]

Lumileds does offer a 'developers kit' that come with all the documentation and 50 Luxeons. Still a little expensive at over $500 for most hobby users, but if split between people it could be useful. The only problem is:

No guarantee of color temp; you could end up with 50 pea greens, and no way to return.

I inquired about the 7000K color option for white Luxeons in a developers kit form, and that is when they told me no such option is available, for the kit or otherwise (even though it's listed on their web site).

For now, Arc is probably is the cheapest source of Luxeons for hobby users.

Most companies when introducing new products will offer samples to businesses and groups like CPF knowing that it is a source of free advertisement. However, not everyone does, and some stick to the 1000pc min qty, but usually there's some distributor ready to fill the gap.

It would be nice is they considered the small business and hobby markets, but most have sales staffs that only count by thousands; so they're only interested in moving large quantities to make volume sales quotas.

I hope Nichia views the little guy differently with their new hi-power LED.

 

[L.E.D.]

The nichia LED sure sounds nice....

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

you sure about that cold light?

the pro seires bulb from LEDcorp has a life of 10,000 hrs and it is underdriven.

 

[L.E.D.]

yes jee bob I'm sure, ask a lot of other members of the board. ALL current LED's will last 100,000 hours if driven correctly. LEDcorp just posted that as a conservative estimate but it's waaay more than 10,000. A regular 5mm white LED and a Luxeon star were tested for 3,600 hours at the typical current for each LED.

Luxeon's percentage of initial brightness after test: 98%

5mm LED's percentage of initial brightness after test: 70%

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

neato!

my pro bulb should last longer than I thought then.

thaks for the info

 

[jeff1500]

How can I get one?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
So The bightness of 20mA LEDs isn't really going up, only the precision of the focus?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, we're talking about two different things here.

You can increase the luminosity of any LED by simply using a lens to tighten the beam. That's why using millicandelas to measure brightness can be so misleading.

That said, Nichia really is breaking new ground by increasing the luminous flux, measured in lumens, by a factor of ten. Flux represents the total light output, not just the brightest portion.

To properly compare LED brightness, the luminous flux should be compared---not the luminosity.

Regarding 1000-piece minimums and all that, I wouldn't get too concerned. If they are nice devices and they are priced properly, distributors like Digi-Key or even Peter Gransee or Mark Hannah can buy them in those quantities and then sell single pieces to us peons for a reasonable price.

Iyogii, how did your meeting with the Nichia rep go last Monday?

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Duggg:

To properly compare LED brightness, the luminous flux should be compared---not the luminosity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And for that, you need an expensive little item called an integrating sphere. I doubt any of us have one of those things rolling around on our workbenches (g) except for maybe the Nichia guy that's been seen in these parts lately.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iyogii:
Next Monday I will be having a visit with a Nichia rep to see their new 10X power led's.
FYI - see their March 4 press release at: http://www.nichia.co.jp/highpowerled-e.htm

Seems as if Nichia is going to compete with Lumileds in the big units general illumination area.

I'll let you all know how it looks. I'm hoping for a sample.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well. Did not get a sample but what Nichia had to show was impressive.

They are going strainght to a 550ma white led (2watt)configuration. Was pretty much blinding.

They showed us 4 LED's. Two were in a metal housing with flat glass lens and gas charged (they claim nitrogen) One was blue, one was white. They also showed the same products in an epoxy package. The epoxy is the same but with limitations on heat sinking that require a 35% derating.

They have not commited to optics yet.

Current schedule is for early samples in July. Production sometime after the first of the year.

 

[jeff1500]

Good info. Thanks for posting.

 

[L.E.D.]

"I think lumileds will come out with something better."

-yeah, and then nichia will come out with something better again. Then Lumileds again! Then Nichia! sound bad? no it's gooood!!! it will make LED technology advance insanely fast! BTW, is a nichia 10x "better" than a current Luxeon Star? to find that out we should consider these:

Brightness

Beam smoothness (no rings, no odd hotspots, even brightness throughout beam)

Color and Color "smoothness" (no green spots here and there)

Beam shape

Thermal properties

size, weight, etc.

Lumen maintenance (Luxeon star stays 98% bright after 3,600 hours)