noob- new maglite 6D, need advice
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old4570
Flashlight Enthusiast
8.4v Multimode driver , XP-G R5 , Heatsink ...
Less than $40
Less than $40
Quite frankly, although it may be tough to fit rechargeable options in that budget, there are no non-rechargeable options worth considering.
There are three types of rechargeable setups used -- there's single-stack setups of standard C, D, or occasionally subC NiMH/NiCd cells, there's large packs of AA, 2/3A, or similar sizes NiMH/NiCd, and there's Li-ion cells in the C-cell or larger range: 26500/26650/26700/32600/32900, mostly in the high current LiFePO4 and LiMn/LiMnNi "safe chemistry" versions, but also some LiCo (conventional Li-ion, limited current allowed, risk of explosion if abused, but best capacity) cells.
Of these, the D or C cells are certainly the cheapest, but limit you to 6V or so bulbs, most of which have relatively low power. Also, all else being equal, the same bulb power in a lower voltage will be somewhat less efficient. While at first they seem like quite a reasonable stepping-stone, there's not really that much of the investment reusable in the other options. For that reason, I wouldn't really recommend them for exploration; they can be a great cheap option once you're familiar with the light levels available and actually want a specific build (maybe a ROP-high as a practical working light) on the cheap.
The 3 and 4 stack packs give quite decent power; they're how all the classic hotwires were powered, since high-current Li-ion cells weren't really available then, and they're still rather competitive. Because you can adjust the voltage in 1.2V increments, they're good for pushing any arbitrary bulb almost to the breaking point -- with Li-ions at 3.2 or 3.7V, you have to pick and choose which bulb to get that hot-white overdrive without blowing the bulb. But they're either custom-made (soldered together and heatshrinked) or use rather expensive holders, and charging a couple dozen cells either requires a hobby charger (to charge the whole pack) or a massive headache of disassembling and recharging them all individually. I haven't gotten into this side; perhaps someone who does this can explain its advantages better.
The Li-ion options are really, IMHO, the most impact/$ option for a newb. They easily get you in the 12V+ range, where there's a wide range of bulbs, up to 150 or 200W, and you can use the same loose cells (and all the other components but the bulb) in anything from a 2D to your 6D, to run varying bulbs.
Quick recipe to get a 6D running:
This gets your Mag ready to run 20V or so into any 12V bi-pin bulb that can take it. You could leave out the metal reflector if you want to start with MR16 bulbs, which have their own reflector -- might help you afford a charger, if you're firm on the $100, and you can always add it later.
Without a reflector, pick any 12V MR16 with 2000 hours or so life, and see if it
s at 20V -- maybe start with the cheap ones! Or some people who've tried them may be able to advise you...
If you've got a reflector, I'd start with the Osram 64440 IRC -- it's about $8 or $10 for the bulb, but you dump about 105W through it, and make ~4500 lumens. (For comparison, a standard 100W bulb in your house makes about 1000 lumens; a vehicle headlight might be about 1500 lumens, give or take -- yeah, this is more light than most cars with high beams on.)
You'll still need a charger for those LiMn cells, though; there's basically two cheap options, and one long-term investment option.
There are three types of rechargeable setups used -- there's single-stack setups of standard C, D, or occasionally subC NiMH/NiCd cells, there's large packs of AA, 2/3A, or similar sizes NiMH/NiCd, and there's Li-ion cells in the C-cell or larger range: 26500/26650/26700/32600/32900, mostly in the high current LiFePO4 and LiMn/LiMnNi "safe chemistry" versions, but also some LiCo (conventional Li-ion, limited current allowed, risk of explosion if abused, but best capacity) cells.
Of these, the D or C cells are certainly the cheapest, but limit you to 6V or so bulbs, most of which have relatively low power. Also, all else being equal, the same bulb power in a lower voltage will be somewhat less efficient. While at first they seem like quite a reasonable stepping-stone, there's not really that much of the investment reusable in the other options. For that reason, I wouldn't really recommend them for exploration; they can be a great cheap option once you're familiar with the light levels available and actually want a specific build (maybe a ROP-high as a practical working light) on the cheap.
The 3 and 4 stack packs give quite decent power; they're how all the classic hotwires were powered, since high-current Li-ion cells weren't really available then, and they're still rather competitive. Because you can adjust the voltage in 1.2V increments, they're good for pushing any arbitrary bulb almost to the breaking point -- with Li-ions at 3.2 or 3.7V, you have to pick and choose which bulb to get that hot-white overdrive without blowing the bulb. But they're either custom-made (soldered together and heatshrinked) or use rather expensive holders, and charging a couple dozen cells either requires a hobby charger (to charge the whole pack) or a massive headache of disassembling and recharging them all individually. I haven't gotten into this side; perhaps someone who does this can explain its advantages better.
The Li-ion options are really, IMHO, the most impact/$ option for a newb. They easily get you in the 12V+ range, where there's a wide range of bulbs, up to 150 or 200W, and you can use the same loose cells (and all the other components but the bulb) in anything from a 2D to your 6D, to run varying bulbs.
Quick recipe to get a 6D running:
Code:
$55 5x IMR26650 from batteryspace
$12 bi-pin kit from Kiu
$13 metal reflector from kaidomain
$6 lens from kaidomain
-------------------------------------
$86, plus shippingWithout a reflector, pick any 12V MR16 with 2000 hours or so life, and see if it
s at 20V -- maybe start with the cheap ones! Or some people who've tried them may be able to advise you...If you've got a reflector, I'd start with the Osram 64440 IRC -- it's about $8 or $10 for the bulb, but you dump about 105W through it, and make ~4500 lumens. (For comparison, a standard 100W bulb in your house makes about 1000 lumens; a vehicle headlight might be about 1500 lumens, give or take -- yeah, this is more light than most cars with high beams on.)
You'll still need a charger for those LiMn cells, though; there's basically two cheap options, and one long-term investment option.
- Batteryspace has a single-cell 6A charger for $30 -- throw that in with your batteries to save on shipping. You should be able to hook up a parallel charging setup with thick wire and magnets, letting you charge all cells at once in about 5 hours.
- Get a row of cheapie single-cell chargers, such as dealextreme sku.6105, only $8. But each cell needs about 4 hours to charge, so you need 3 chargers and charge the batteries in two batches (your light is out of commission for 8 hours, and you nhave to be there in the middle to swap them) or better 5 chargers, which costs more than the 6A charger from batteryspace. The benefit to this is the ability to charge one or two 18650s, should you get a light that uses them at some point, and the utter simplicity of pulling out five cells and dropping them into 5 chargers -- no messing with cables and magnets. I have three of these (from back when I was using only three cells in a 3D), and getting three cells charged before I go to bed, and the next two started, is a serious hassle. But they were great for a three cell light, and 5 would be just as great for this.
- Get a hobby charger with balance charging. These start at about $50, and the good ones are usually $100 or more, I guess. But they'll charge anything that needs charging, at slow or fast current, as you see fit. They're the sort of tool that no flashaholic should be without -- which is why I intend to get one any day now.
Entry-level chargers do 5A, which would charge all 5 cells in about an hour and a half.
A380
Newly Enlightened
Currently I'm building also a 6D maglite.
Parts from dealextreme:
-5 led reflector
- 5 mode boost driver for up to 5 leds (800mah output, input up to 8,4v)
Also 5 xp-g R5 (you could try xr-e R2 for more throw).
Going to use six NiMh D batts and hopefully also alkaline in an emergensy use, but I'm sure they are going to put out less power.
Parts from dealextreme:
-5 led reflector
- 5 mode boost driver for up to 5 leds (800mah output, input up to 8,4v)
Also 5 xp-g R5 (you could try xr-e R2 for more throw).
Going to use six NiMh D batts and hopefully also alkaline in an emergensy use, but I'm sure they are going to put out less power.
wow, you guys are awesome. thanks for the quick replies.
Ok- im going to have to go through all of that and try and ask the questions as i come to them.
1. ordered the glass lense, thanks!
2. which metal reflector should i get? the OP or SMO? what are the benfits for each?
3. it sounds like Li-ion (is LiMn one of these?) batts are the way to go, after reading what yall wrote... right?
4. As for a bulb, Osram 64440 IRC... or ROP?
5. "xp-g R5" and "xr-e R2", what are these? even after a google search, i was still confused.
6. "kiu bi-pin socket"- where can i buy one?
thanks guys, sorry for being a noob.
Ok- im going to have to go through all of that and try and ask the questions as i come to them.
1. ordered the glass lense, thanks!
2. which metal reflector should i get? the OP or SMO? what are the benfits for each?
3. it sounds like Li-ion (is LiMn one of these?) batts are the way to go, after reading what yall wrote... right?
4. As for a bulb, Osram 64440 IRC... or ROP?
5. "xp-g R5" and "xr-e R2", what are these? even after a google search, i was still confused.
6. "kiu bi-pin socket"- where can i buy one?
thanks guys, sorry for being a noob.
Gunner12
Flashaholic
OP would give you a smoother beam, and SMO will give you more throw.
I'd go with the ROP bulb since that is easy to do. You'll need 6 NiMh D cells. If you want more power, I'd suggest modifying the bulb holder or getting one that can take high power bulbs. The stock Maglite one can melt even with the ROP bulb (from what I remember).
XP-E, XR-E, XP-G, are all LED models made by Cree. R5, R2, Q3, and some more are flux bins (think output designation).
KIU bi-pin socked it an adapter so you can use bi-pin bulbs in the Maglite. Try the google search at the top of this page (try combinations of "KIU" and "bi-pin")
:welcome:
I'd go with the ROP bulb since that is easy to do. You'll need 6 NiMh D cells. If you want more power, I'd suggest modifying the bulb holder or getting one that can take high power bulbs. The stock Maglite one can melt even with the ROP bulb (from what I remember).
XP-E, XR-E, XP-G, are all LED models made by Cree. R5, R2, Q3, and some more are flux bins (think output designation).
KIU bi-pin socked it an adapter so you can use bi-pin bulbs in the Maglite. Try the google search at the top of this page (try combinations of "KIU" and "bi-pin")
:welcome:
Thanks for the welcome, you guys are great!
SMO sounds like a more attractable choice... Im not sure how having a "smoother beam" seems desireable (but im quite new at this). would either one of them give me a wider cone angle?
Which ROP bulb should i go for?
LED Crees: led's sound awesome for their battery life extending purposes, but do i also understand that i will (normally) decrease my power potential of the flashlight- at least while comparing them to halogen?
KIU bi-pin, oh gotcha! thanks, that make sense. normally, bulbs for mag lights have the screw-in part, but this would allow me to use pin-type bulbs.
Yes, LiMn is one type of Li-ion, and arguably the best combination of energy, power and safety for hotwires. I'd say they're the way to go, but then I think I already did; others would disagree.
Depends on battery choice: ROP is one of a pair of 6V bulbs (low=10W, high=24W, IIRC) that run nicely on the 7-8V from 6 NiMH or 2 Li-ion cells, so it would be a good choice for 6 D cells, probably burning about 35W. 64440 IRC is a 12V 50W bulb with a special coating to boost efficiency about 50%, which runs nicely on 18-20V from 5 LiCo or LiMn, or something like 15 NiMH. Mine draws about 105W on 5 LiMn, IIRC.
XP-G and XR-E are two types of LEDs from Cree, and "R2" or whatever refer to the brightess level for that batch of LEDs. Not sure why anyone would recommend a single LED here. IIRC a 5x R2 build would be in the neighborhood of an ROP high, and obviously better runtime. I think A380's build should beat a ROP, but rather more difficult to build. While an LED mod that can beat the 64440 IRC is possible, I've not heard of one, and it would be quite expensive and difficult to build.
Search for threads started by member "KIU"...
WRT the "ROP is easy" line, I don't disagree, exactly, but here's my perspective:
For the ROP, you need to buy six NiMH D cells -- good ones cost around $8 a piece IIRC -- and a charger. The charger's definitely a reusable investment, but what of the D cells? After you get bored with the ROP and want more, there's the 5761, a slightly brighter and rather better-throwing bi-pin bulb (need a Kiu socket or similar) that should run on the same batteries if you let them rest a couple hours after charging. But I don't know of many brighter options, or even particularly good options for using some of them in a smaller light, so about $50 of batteries will sit mostly unused when/if you move on to a aother $60 setup (comes out about the same for a set of 5 Li-ion batteries like I discussed, or enough AAs to fill it).
