Noob question.. Why Eneloops?

[CaliColin]

I've just started scratching the surface of this sick and twisted world you've all created here so please forgive my ignorance. My batts will be used on an EagleTac P100A2, Mag 3D, Ultrafire 502B, and a couple of cheap AAA head lights. I'm looking for a good set of rechargeables (AA, AAA, and D). I don't care about CR123's for now. I currently have a mix of old AA and AAA Rayovac and Energizer rechargeables as well as an Energizer charger that accepts both AAA and AA cells. I hear a lot of buzz about Eneloops, but why are they so good? The only metric I am aware of is advertised MAH and the Eneloops aren't rated particularly high. Seems like there are a number of 2500+ MAH options out there. Should I even care about that rating? Also, should I just get a set of batteries and use them in my existing cheapo charger? Why shouldn't I do this?

 

[Mr Happy]

You can find out anything and everything about eneloops and why people like them by searching the forum. You will find hundreds of posts on the subject, so I can save space by not going over all of it one more time.

As to what you should do, you could start by considering where you are now. You have some existing batteries and a charger. What do you find satisfactory or unsatisfactory about them? If you are looking for some "good" batteries, does that mean you think your current batteries are "bad"? If so, would you really want to buy more of the same?

You could get some cheapo batteries and use them in your existing charger, but you might find they don't last long before they wear out, or they might have poor run time, or they fail to hold their charge more than a day before they need recharging again, or something like that. You need to decide whether that might apply to you, or if that is something you care about.

 

[Marduke]

In short, no, mAh (capacity) is not the only metric there is, and Eneloops are superior in every other metric. They give the best overall performance for NiMH cells.

Also, I do not recommend that charger. It is a "dumb" timed charger that will eventually kill your cells. Instead, I recommend an independant channel "smart charger" for better performance.

 

[roadie]

why eneloops ..... because they set the standard of low discharge batteries ....

i use eneloops all the long ... , a few yrs back when i made my first maglite mod, i use eneloop and draw it to as high as 10amps ... although it works but greatly reduced its life span ....

i happen to see eneloops C and D sizes too these days, but not sure if it sells as good as its AA ....

 

[FlashCrazy]

Yep, as stated, you'll find tons of info about them here on the forum. I'll give you a couple of highlights. Eneloops are made by Sanyo, one of the premier battery manufacturers in the world... the consistency (cells matching each other in terms of performance) is fantastic. Eneloops are classified as low self-discharge cells, meaning they maintain their charge for a long period of time while in storage. Regular NiMH cells can lose half their charge in a month, just sitting in a drawer. NiMH batteries in general can tolerate high current drains (load), which today's high powered flashlight's place on them. Eneloops are one of the best in this regard, maintaining higher voltage under load compared to many others. Yes, they have less capacity compared to the 2600 mAH cells, but it's due to their low self-discharge construction. Gives good piece of mind knowing that the battery will hold its charge during prolonged storage.

 

[CaliColin]

What do you find satisfactory or unsatisfactory about them?

Run time is short. A fraction of what they used to be. And they don't hold a charge for very long while sitting idle after a charge. A week or two sitting idle and they're almost useless.

If you are looking for some "good" batteries, does that mean you think your current batteries are "bad"? If so, would you really want to buy more of the same?

Yes I think they're bad, for the aforementioned reason and no I don't necessarily want more of the same. This is why I'm looking for a new set.

 

[CaliColin]

Yep, as stated, you'll find tons of info about them here on the forum. I'll give you a couple of highlights. Eneloops are made by Sanyo, one of the premier battery manufacturers in the world... the consistency (cells matching each other in terms of performance) is fantastic. Eneloops are classified as low self-discharge cells, meaning they maintain their charge for a long period of time while in storage. Regular NiMH cells can lose half their charge in a month, just sitting in a drawer. NiMH batteries in general can tolerate high current drains (load), which today's high powered flashlight's place on them. Eneloops are one of the best in this regard, maintaining higher voltage under load compared to many others. Yes, they have less capacity compared to the 2600 mAH cells, but it's due to their low self-discharge construction. Gives good piece of mind knowing that the battery will hold its charge during prolonged storage.

Thanks for the input.. they sound like the ticket based on so many good words, but I was looking at the NiMh Battery Shootout done by SilverFox at:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=79302

And the Eneloops are pretty far down the list. I was thinking of springing for the Sanyo 2700 or Sanyo Industrial 2500 or 2300's. Same proven brand.. but not nearly as much buzz as the Eneloops. I have much to learn.

 

[Marduke]

The sum of a product cannot be summarized in a single value, in this case capacity shortly after being charged.

 

[EngrPaul]

Eneloops and Imedions have been 100% reliable for me. They test to full mA*h rating and are very consistent from cell-to-cell. I've never had one go high impedance on me, and I've kept a bunch in circulation since they first came out.


I can't say the same about ANY non-LSD NiMH cells I've ever had, even Sanyos.


I think a great benefit is not having to top off. For just about everyone but the heavy user, this means less charging cycles and longer life over the same period of time.

Get a high quality charger. Never buy one that charges two or more cells at a time. It should charge one independant cell per bay (doesn't require two to start charging).

I suggest the MAHA C801/C808 for a charger that will treat your cells the best, and doesn't require you to be an advanced user.

 

[mudman cj]

Do yourself a favor and at least try a set of Eneloops or the Duracell re-branded Eneloops commonly referred to as Duraloops here on the forum. Before buying the Duracells, be sure to search about the differences between the two different versions of them so as to get the better ones made by Sanyo. So many passionate (obsessive :tinfoil flashaholics swear by them for a reason!

 

[Mr Happy]

Run time is short. A fraction of what they used to be. And they don't hold a charge for very long while sitting idle after a charge. A week or two sitting idle and they're almost useless.

Good. These are important things to raise the discussion from the general to specifics. :thumbsup:

We can now look at how eneloops might work out better for you.

"Run time is short. A fraction of what they used to be."

This is durability. Lower quality batteries wear out more quickly with use, so that they no longer hold as much charge as they once did. Eneloops have proven to be very durable. People have tortured them in testing and found them to keep working better than many other batteries. You can still kill them, but it's harder.

"And they don't hold a charge for very long while sitting idle after a charge. A week or two sitting idle and they're almost useless."

This is the high self-discharge problem. It happens more often to batteries with a weaker internal construction. Higher capacity batteries such as 2500 of 2700 mAh are found to be more susceptible to this problem, most likely because to squeeze more capacity into the cell all the parts have to be made thinner and more fragile. Eneloops are specifically designed to hold their charge for a long time, even in repeated use. Some eneloops have been tested after three years of storage and still found to have 75% of their original charge left.

Yes I think they're bad, for the aforementioned reason and no I don't necessarily want more of the same. This is why I'm looking for a new set.

There are many things that mark out bad cells, and you have picked on two of them. The capacity does not tell the whole story, and for many people the high capacity 2700 mAh cells are not the best choice.

In addition to getting better batteries you may also need to get a better charger. A bad charger will damage even good cells. The kind of charger you should look for will include four individual charging channels, and will be a "smart" charger that automatically stops charging each battery when it is full and does not overcharge it. The optimum charge rate is between 2 and 4 hours. Faster than 2 hours and the cells might get too hot unless it is a really expensive charger. Slower than 4 hours and the charger might have a risk of missing the end of charge and overcharging batteries.

One possibility is the Duracell Mobile Charger: although it has been discontinued, you might find one in Safeway, Vons or Toys-R-Us stores, or on-line. For something very flexible you could step up to the LaCrosse BC-900.

 

[45/70]

Thanks for the input.. they sound like the ticket based on so many good words, but I was looking at the NiMh Battery Shootout done by SilverFox at:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=79302

And the Eneloops are pretty far down the list. I was thinking of springing for the Sanyo 2700 or Sanyo Industrial 2500 or 2300's. Same proven brand.. but not nearly as much buzz as the Eneloops. I have much to learn.

I'm guessing you have done, as many do, when looking at the "Shootout", and based your opinion on what is presented in the chart. It's a matter of record, here on the forum, that some of the worst battery cells in history, are in the top half of the chart.

As for the "shootout" itself, the most important information is in the graphs, not in the chart. You can gain a much better understanding of cell performance, by observing how well a cell holds voltage under different loads (current). Only then, will you understand, one of the major reasons, why eneloops are considered one of the best. This is just one aspect of cell evaluation, but a very important one.

Another consideration, is how many cycles, or how many months/years a cell will maintain good performance. eneloops have proven to be one of the best, in this regard. It doesn't hurt that they have excellent charge retention, either.

Dave

 

[Egsise]

You said that you are looking for AA, AAA and D cells.

If I had to choose....
AA: Eneloops or RayOVac Hybrids
AAA: Sony Cycle energy Blue(Made in China, RayOVac Hybrids perhaps)
D: AA cells with adapter?

A smart charger is a must.

 

[Black Rose]

D: AA cells with adapter?

Rayovac now has Hybrid D cells.

There are also Eneloop D cells, but I don't think they've landed in North America yet.

 

[Turbo DV8]

You said that you are looking for AA, AAA and D cells.

If I had to choose....
AAA: Sony Cycle energy Blue(Made in China, RayOVac Hybrids perhaps)

I have tons of AAA Eneloops and AAA ROV Hybrids. Based on my personal experience, I would have to say the ROV Hybrid AAA cells just aren't holding up nearly as well as the AAA Eneloops. The AA ROV Hybrids and Eneloops are much closer in terms of longevity. But if I had the choice all over again, I would just make it Eneloop across the board.

 

[CaliColin]

Based on the recommendations in this thread as well as the overwhelming amount of information in this subforum, I've decided to go with a low self discharge battery over one with a high mAh rating. Apparently you can't have both. LSD is more important to me than having a 2500+ mAh rating because my lights will be sitting idle for days, sometimes weeks at a time. Packing the most mAh won't matter because they will quickly drain while sitting idle anyway. Of the LSD options out there, the Eneloops are competitively priced and their excellent reputation makes them an easy choice.

As for chargers, I'm picking up a re-branded Vanson BC1HU at Harbor Freight for $15 - a 15% off coupon that they emailed me. It does not have all the bells and whistles of the more expensive chargers like MAHA or Lacrosse, but does allow you to run a discharge-recharge cycle to refresh your cells, and let's face it a smart charger that does AA, AAA, C, D, and 9V for $14 out the door is a no-brainer, even for a noob like me. Still haven't decided on what D cells to feed the maglite.. wish eneloops made some.

 

[KiwiMark]

Still haven't decided on what D cells to feed the maglite.. wish eneloops made some.

I have these in a 4D and they seem to work well.

 

[ccryder]

Thanks for the info in this thread.

 

[Eugene]

As for chargers, I'm picking up a re-branded Vanson BC1HU at Harbor Freight for $15 - a 15% off coupon that they emailed me. It does not have all the bells and whistles of the more expensive chargers like MAHA or Lacrosse, but does allow you to run a discharge-recharge cycle to refresh your cells, and let's face it a smart charger that does AA, AAA, C, D, and 9V for $14 out the door is a no-brainer, even for a noob like me. Still haven't decided on what D cells to feed the maglite.. wish eneloops made some.

Not all smart chargers are as smart as each other. I had a $430 rayovac smart charger and my batteries were under performing and the $40 mahac401fs did a better job of charging. Later I spent the $69 on a c9000 and tested some batteries off the rayovac that were fully charged according to it and were under 80% according to the c9000. Those maha's have paid for themselves already be my not having to replace all those older batteries, putting them through a better charger gave them new life.

 

[Unclemonkey]

Where's the best place to purchase sanyo eneloops? My local costco had a bundle pack, but its all gone now. Any suggestions.