P60 dive host

[gcbryan]

Since this size flashlight is widely available and is a good size for single dives I'm surprised I don't hear more about them being modified as dive lights.

The advantage of course is that drop ins are available for most every new emitter that comes along. It would also make it easier to mod a light if you could standardize all of the parts needed...lens,o-ring, etc so it's not like reinventing the wheel with each new mod.

I have a Uniquefire L2 XP-G R5 host that I recently fried the drop in emitter on (trying it out in another flashlight). I'm going to replace it rather than just ordering a drop in since the price differential isn't great and I'll have an extra host to play around with.

I also have a DX C30 flood-to-throw light that has an aspheric optic that fits the P60 host. I've ordered an XR-E R2 drop in and plan to have a mini-spot light just to play around with.

While I've been taking everything apart during my long wait for DX replacement parts I've noticed that once you do get the lens retaining ring off the head, that there is a ridge/ledge there. The lens actually goes in from the front, rests against this ledge and then the retaining ring, when screwed in, holds it in.

I would think that if I put an o-ring between this ledge and the glass I would get good compression. This leaves the tail cap. I'm not sure how to handle that. In the past I've simply taken the switch out, epoxied over the hole, and used the lights as twistys. In this case you can't since the battery (18650) goes back there so deeply that it's always making electrical contact until the tailcap actually comes off.

I'm wondering if there is anyway to keep the clicky switch in and still use it as a dive light. What about putting an o-ring around the clicky switch? Or a combination of that and some sealant? The clicky cover itself should be waterproof. I understand the issue of increasing pressure activating (I guess) the switch but as far as making it waterproof it seems like it could be possible.

I'm not necessarily looking to make this an aspheric dive light. I may (or may not) keep that just for surface use (so two different projects here) but having a P60 XP-G dive light that can be easily changed with drop ins would be interesting. Using the 18650 it would certainly last for one dive and could be mounted hands-free.

The other problem is that given the way this light is constructed it would be much easier to keep the reflector in even with the aspheric configuration. In that case I'm wondering if you could just paint the reflector black and leave it in as a spacer to keep things tight. The emitter needs this to maintain electrical contact with the battery. Or do you even need to paint it black. Some manufacturers...Led Lenser and Wolf Eyes have aspheric and reflector combinations I think.

Any thoughts on either painting the reflector black, leaving it in, and having a surface aspheric thrower (using the R2) or on the various aspects of converting the tailcap and front lens of a P60 host for dive use (using the R5)?

As an aside, I don't suppose there is any easy way to disable the strobe feature on a driver board while keeping the output modes?

 

[gcbryan]

For those with some knowledge of the P60 design and reed switches ... how hard would it be to put in a reed switch between the end of the tailcap (if hole was sealed) and the back of the battery spring.

I don't know if there are any very small reed switches but it would be a matter of using the same space presently used by the clicky switch.

If this could be done converted a P60 host to a dive light would just be a matter of using epoxy to close the tailcap hole, soldering a reed switch, and adding an o-ring behind the front lens and using a magnetic in your glove to turn the light on and off.

I really like the design of this P60 host and would like to find a way to make it work as a XP-G dive light.

 

[lucca brassi]

Do you have some link for P60 or P30 with photos?

 

[gcbryan]

There are photos here : http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33549

It's a clone of a Surefire 6P.

What I like about these is that there are plenty of drop in modules made for them as new emitters come out. Also, they have a recessed "bezel" or retaining ring and a ledge behind the lens that would be perfect for a good o-ring. The glass lens that come on mine is only 1.2 mm but there is room to double up if the recesses retaining ring isn't screwed in as far. It's probably fine as is for recreation depths anyway considering the diameter is only 30 mm.

The button of the tailcap is recessed as well making is possible to potentially leave in the clicky switch and just put a hard cap over the end of the light before diving but I would rather either be able to use a magnetic switch or find a way to twist the tailcap on and off.


Twisting is not as easy in this design as in some others as the tailcap has to twist almost all of the way off before it switches off.

Even if you didn't want to wait for modules to come out you could do it yourself as everything is modular. The reflector screws into a copper heatsink which is recessed on the bottom to accommodate a driver board. There is a larger spring on that goes around the diameter and another smaller spring is attached to the bottom so it fits more than one model of light. All this is one drop in unit.

So, as long as you have an emitter and a driver you can keep modifying this design yourself. The only limitation for this light would be that of the battery (1) 18650.

By the way there is no P30. You were probably referring to my earlier post where I was talking about taking an aspheric lens from a C30 flood-to-throw light from DX. A link wouldn't really help you there since there are no pictures of the actual aspheric lens. It's just a plastic 28mm diameter lens (focal length is about 16mm).

 

[gcbryan]

Another interesting point is that with the original Surefire 6P (expensive) but not found in the P60 hosts (clones) is the tailcap.

It's a momentary switch until the tailcap is screwed in all the way and then the light stays on and the momentary button can't be pushed (it's locked at that point).

I'm guessing this also means that it would be waterproof. If anyone makes a tailcap like this for the clones (which I haven't been able to find) then it would be easy to make these lights dive worthy...just lock down the tailcap before diving if you are willing to leave the light on while underwater and just add an o-ring behind the lens.

 

[gallonoffuel]

I am not a diver but I modified a solarforce l2 to do exactly what you describe. I highly doubt I could dive with it though. I removed the bezel ring and put the O-ring on the 'ledge' of the bezel and installed a plano-convex lens in place of the original, and used marine silicone sealant aroud it before installing the bezel ring. I also blacked out the P60 module reflector with some flat black spray paint. I use a real Z41 surefire twisty on mine. I have a lanyard ring on it and about 20 feet of paracord, I drop it into the water sometimes just to see if I can see anything from the surface. It has survived a few outtings thus far. I agree that the tailcap is the hardest part. You might get by with a genuine Surefire Z41 and fashioning an exceptionally strong center spring so as to keep it deactivated as long as possible while diving.

 

[gcbryan]

I am not a diver but I modified a solarforce l2 to do exactly what you describe. I highly doubt I could dive with it though. I removed the bezel ring and put the O-ring on the 'ledge' of the bezel and installed a plano-convex lens in place of the original, and used marine silicone sealant aroud it before installing the bezel ring. I also blacked out the P60 module reflector with some flat black spray paint. I use a real Z41 surefire twisty on mine. I have a lanyard ring on it and about 20 feet of paracord, I drop it into the water sometimes just to see if I can see anything from the surface. It has survived a few outtings thus far. I agree that the tailcap is the hardest part. You might get by with a genuine Surefire Z41 and fashioning an exceptionally strong center spring so as to keep it deactivated as long as possible while diving.

Aside from the waterproofing issues how do you like the beam with the new lens and the blacked out reflector? Is it working as you expected...I assume with no spill and greater throw?

Regarding the tailcap, I'm now thinking about just using 2 part epoxy to fill in the outside of the tailcap after first making sure that the switch is clicked on.

This way it will always be on and can be turned off only by unscrewing the head.

 

[gcbryan]

I'm curious if anyone has ever tested clicky switches for diving. I know they will leak at some point but what is that point?

There is also the issue of water pressure activation but that's not a major concern for me. If the switch didn't leak and water pressure turned the light off I can just turn it back on.

The rubber cover along with the string should keep things dry to a certain depth. I'm wondering if you could take the switch out put a little epoxy on around the top and bottom of the hole and then put the rubber cover back in and let it seal.

All that has to be flexible is the top part of the rubber cover.Is the biggest issue for those who have experimented the pressure triggering the switch unexpectedly or not being able to make it waterproof?

I know there are better ultimate solutions but in this case my choices are only taking the cover off completely, coving the end with epoxy and turning the light off only by twisting the head or being able to continue to use the switch and finding a way to make it waterproof.

I've experimented with several aspects of modifying dive lights underwater but I've not tested clicky switches yet.

Someone must have done this already and have some info on what depth it made it to.

 

[gallonoffuel]

Aside from the waterproofing issues how do you like the beam with the new lens and the blacked out reflector? Is it working as you expected...I assume with no spill and greater throw?

Regarding the tailcap, I'm now thinking about just using 2 part epoxy to fill in the outside of the tailcap after first making sure that the switch is clicked on.

This way it will always be on and can be turned off only by unscrewing the head.

The beam is great, nice and tight which is what I was looking for. I often use it at night to find holes in rivers to hit the next day while trout fishing, and the lack of spill cuts back on any reflective glare. The problem with it is that the lens, like most cheaper PCX or Aspheric lenses, shifts the spectrum to the blue side. A whiter light would probably cut through better.

The problem I see with a twisty is water leakage. I turn my light on before entering the water, but I have read multiple times on this forum that twisting the tailcap underwater will cause water entry.

 

[gcbryan]

Is your lens the glass aspheric from DX or is it plastic? I have a plastic one from another light and have the glass one on order.

I've converted small Romisen lights from DX to dive use and didn't have any problem twisting the tailcap (after I converted it from a clicky).

Many dive lights have twisty heads so there is no reason that a twisty tailcap should be a problem. It just depends on the o-rings, threads, etc...meaning it just depends on the particular model. I'd actually rather twist a tailcap than twist the head on a dive light.

I'm going to paint out the reflector on one of the two lights I'm experimenting with and set it up more or less as you have done. I'm using the R2 single mode drop in from DX. It's supposed to be pretty bright and well driven.

I may even throw it in the dive light version I'm working on just to see what the beam is like underwater. My main use for that one will not be underwater however.

 

[gallonoffuel]

My lens is a relatively high quality surplus PCX lens from Anchor Optics. I'm not sure of the focal length, the beam is VERY similar to a KL1 with the TIR.

 

[gcbryan]

I've heard people mention that clicky tail switches don't work underwater because water pressure causes the light to turn off and you can't turn it on again until you reduce pressure by getting out of the water.

That's using the more common "reverse clicky"...what about using a "forward clicky". This type of switch is a momentary switch and turns on when pressed and goes off when released. If you want to lock the light on then you do a full press until it clicks.

Water pressure would keep this type of light on rather than off.

You would still have to make sure that when you pressed the button water didn't leak in but you would have solved the other problem.

I'm guessing that making it waterproof wouldn't be so hard if you solved the other problem.

Any thoughts? Has anyone ever tried a forward clicky switch?

 

[Packhorse]

Then you are stuck with a light that you cant turn off.

Perhaps workable but a far distance from ideal.

 

[gcbryan]

Then you are stuck with a light that you cant turn off.

Perhaps workable but a far distance from ideal.

I realize that. I'm not suggesting that a manufacturer make them this way. My light (primary) will almost always be on for the entire dive anyway.

My point is just that a forward clicky would certainly seem preferable to a reverse clicky and would be used in an experimental dive light. I'm not sure what would need to be done to ensure that it wouldn't leak as the switch is pressed.

I'm sure the front end would stand a dive to 100 fsw with the o-ring that I've added. The glass is much thinner than I'd like but I think that too will handle 100 fsw.

This isn't the ideal set up but it's an easy set up and requires very little modification from stock. It would also be able to be used as a regular non-diving light.

It's a "baby step" approach. I'd like a reed switch but that's beyond my capabilities personally and space wise in this light at the moment.

On another note...I played around with an aspheric lens that throws well enough but the beam is ugly except for the actual emitter profile image. A quick and very dirty solution was to use Scotch "Magic" tape on the emitter side of the optic except for the center portion. This didn't interferer with it's ability to throw (I tested it both ways) but it did clean up the artifacts drastically working as a diffuser. I used black paint to paint over the top surface of the silver ring that goes around the XR-E dome and now the beam is 100% artifact free.

 

[hanachan]

Has anyone ever tried a forward clicky switch?

only Romison RC-G2 has a forward clicky switch among the about 6 lights
which i bought form DX.
as you think, i thought. so i made this light waterproof.
its report is here:
http://hanachan.ddo.jp/!!kosaku/2009/200902lightkaizo01/g2uwlight.html

it is an issue that we don't know the light which we buy (from DX) has a forward clicky switch or a reverse one.
most DX lights use a reverse switch i think.

 

[gcbryan]

only Romison RC-G2 has a forward clicky switch among the about 6 lights
which i bought form DX.
as you think, i thought. so i made this light waterproof.
its report is here:
http://hanachan.ddo.jp/!!kosaku/2009/200902lightkaizo01/g2uwlight.html

it is an issue that we don't know the light which we buy (from DX) has a forward clicky switch or a reverse one.
most DX lights use a reverse switch i think.

Thanks for the link to your build. I'll look over it carefully.

You're right most lights on DX are reverse clicky. I found a place that sells just the forward clicky switch itself and they are made by Romisen. I read somewhere that they can easily be adapted to fit in most P60 hosts. So I ordered some and they should arrive today or tomorrow.

 

[gcbryan]

FYI-The forward clickies arrived (<$2.00) and are more or less a direct drop-in for a P60 host. There are a couple of minor adjustments to make them work.

I'm going to try to determine the least invasion changes to the tail cap to make it waterproof because I'd like to primarily use this light in a non-diving role but it has captured my imagination with its possible use as a regular flashlight that is already ready for temporary duty as a dive light and can return to its role as a general purpose flashlight.

I think I have access to a pressure pot for testing (first without the batteries or drop-in installed).

 

[gcbryan]

I configured this minimally altered light today and did a dive today to 100 fsw with no leaks.

It was just a standard P60 host using a XP-G R5 powered by (1) 18650. I changed the switch from a stock "reverse clicky" to a "forward clicky". I added an o-ring on the ledge behind the front glass lens.

I added some silicone sealant on the top of the flange of the switch cover button. This is the surface that is inside the tailcap touching the internal bottom surface of the tailcap. I put a little sealant in the hole that the cover goes through.

Externally, the light looks completely stock and except for a little silicone an o-ring and a different switch it is and therefore can still be used as a surface general purpose light and a good one at that.

I'll do a few more dives with it just to test it out more. That was the only purpose here since I already have better primary and backup dive lights.

My interest here was to pick a host that was already fairly suitable for a dive light as is and to see how little I could modify it rather than how much. It's hard to know what the forces are and their effects on a dive light (IMO) if you so over engineer or protect the light that you don't learn these things.

Of course for my own personal dive light I would prefer for it to be over engineered and as robust as possible.

For gathering test data it's more useful to find the failure points. At some point I may pressure test this to failure in a pressure pot or I may remove all of the silicone and see at what depth the tailcap leaks.

As it is, I have a $25 XP-G R5 dive light in a P60 host size which can fit into a hands-free mount and can be used as a general purpose flashlight. I keep learning that it's not hard to make a light dive worthy to 100 fsw.

Beyond that I think you usually have to modify things a little more (improve o-ring design and add thicker glass) but most people do most of their diving from the surface to 100 fsw.