Peak AAA questions.

[goathens]

I've only just now noticed the peak sale, and am looking to exploit it.

I'm looking to replace my ultra infinity (1xAA 1xnichia... it think. low power, ran forever). I'd like something with a bit more power to it though. Loss of runtime down to the neighborhood of 10 hours would be ok by me.

I'm looking for steel and a more convenient size- I figured dropping down to a AAA model would be a good decision.

There seem to be 2 models that fit th bill- matterhorn and fujiyama (3 led). The matterhorn has brighter settings yet a longer runtime (and with half the batteries)- and is more expensive. Does it have newer LEDs or more advanced circuitry or something?

I also used to have a habit of holding a light in my mouth for hands-free (back when I used cheap plastic AAA lights). I lost that habit with the infinity, as the AA body was bulky and I had an issue with possibly ingesting the HA2 coating/aluminum smudge. Anybody with a similar gross habit think that a steel 1xAAA light would fit the bill for such uses? That and neck carry.

 

[RyanA]

I've only just now noticed the peak sale, and am looking to exploit it.

I'm looking to replace my ultra infinity (1xAA 1xnichia... it think. low power, ran forever). I'd like something with a bit more power to it though. Loss of runtime down to the neighborhood of 10 hours would be ok by me.

I'm looking for steel and a more convenient size- I figured dropping down to a AAA model would be a good decision.

There seem to be 2 models that fit th bill- matterhorn and fujiyama (3 led). The matterhorn has brighter settings yet a longer runtime (and with half the batteries)- and is more expensive. Does it have newer LEDs or more advanced circuitry or something?

I also used to have a habit of holding a light in my mouth for hands-free (back when I used cheap plastic AAA lights). I lost that habit with the infinity, as the AA body was bulky and I had an issue with possibly ingesting the HA2 coating/aluminum smudge. Anybody with a similar gross habit think that a steel 1xAAA light would fit the bill for such uses? That and neck carry.

As far as I know the board and led are the same. The difference could stem from the fact that the fujiyama takes longer to drop out of regulation, if at all, (because it has twice the voltage), usually the moon (non regulated) modes on lights like this last quite a longer than the sun mode (regulated). in a non regulated mode the current supplied usually goes down as voltage drops. So it is possible that the fujiyama draws the higher current for a longer and the batteries are already spent by the time the voltage is low enough for the driver to drop out of regulation, if that makes any sense.

 

[goathens]

So, RyanA, are you suggesting that the fujiyama wouldn't really drop into moon-mode so much? I ask because I'd rather the battery just be used up rather than have the light spend over 50% of it's runtime in low-power mode- i feel like I would be wasting the batteries to discard them in that state.

Maybe i should get a 1xAAA baltic or something- a beefier led to really use that battery.

 

[RyanA]

For a battery drainer you'd want a low amp draw, I think you'd be right on target with a matterhorn. They've even got a 20ma board if you ask.

 

[parnass]

.... I'd like something with a bit more power to it though. Loss of runtime down to the neighborhood of 10 hours would be ok by me.
....
There seem to be 2 models that fit the bill- matterhorn and fujiyama (3 led). ....

I have a few 1-LED and 3-LED Peak Matterhorns and I don't think you would get 10 hours of bright light from them.

Suggest you post questions in CPF's Peak forum area.

Also, check out some older reviews:

1-LED review

3-LED review

 

[DM51]

I'm moving this to the Peak sub-forum, as suggested by parnass.

 

[goathens]

DM51: thanks, I totally didn't think of that- I guess that's what I get for posting at 1am.

RyanA: My Electrical Engineering is pretty weak- what would the functional difference (light output, runtime, or maybe brightness curve) between a 20ma board and whatever is "standard" on a matterhorn be?

General addition- I only use standard alkalines- nimh and lithium considerations are completely lost on me (and can you even get lithium in AAA format?)

 

[22hornet]

Hello,

The Matterhorn has a diminishing output, where the Fujiyama has a constant (flatly regulated) output that suddenly drops after a few hours. This requires more "power", hence the shorter runtime for the Fujiyama.

If both fed with nimh cells, a 1 led snow HP Fujiyama is brighter than a 1 led snow HP Matterhorn. The Matterhorn is somewhat like an old ARC AAA BS standard (at most) and the Fujiyama compares to something with a CS led, say, between a Fenix E0 and an ARC AAA CS.

Fujiyamas with three snow leds HP are bright and must be around 15 lumens. This by comparing them to other lights of which the output is known and about 15 lumens as well. I must say, however, that my stainless Fujiyamas with 3 leds, in the colors blue and snow, do get hot, so it may be a bad idea to put them somewhere in candlemode and forget about them.

Bottom line:the Fujiyama is very beautiful in stainless steel. I have an HA as well and find it a much less attractive.
Bottom line 2: thanks to Peak we can buy these lights in different led colors, though their choice is somewhat limited: no turquoise, no green, no yellow, etc.
Bottom line 3: I wished the Matterhorn had flat regulation as well, (If Fenix can deliver it with their E01, so must Peak)

Kind regards,
Joris

 

[22hornet]

I have a few 1-LED and 3-LED Peak Matterhorns and I don't think you would get 10 hours of bright light from them.

Suggest you post questions in CPF's Peak forum area.

Also, check out some older reviews:

1-LED review

3-LED review

Please, Parnass, do not post this picture again. It makes me drool too much. The most beautiful 1AAA light, if only Peak would furnish them with a regulation à la Fenix E01... (Peak, are you listening?? )

Joris

 

[goathens]

22Hornet: "bottom line 3" If the matterhorn were flat-regulated, wouldn't it just be a fujiyama?

Do the 5mm LED's have any loss of durability from being run so hot? Maybe I should redirect my interests towards a baltic or pacific- an underpowered p4 or lux (is there even a difference?) probably doesn't have any issues with running warm. I also presume the fujiyama is on the website in a 2xAAA configuration because that extra battery is needed (i'm sure I could ask for a 1xAAA, but would that be practical?)

 

[RAGE CAGE]

I have that same 3 led stainless Matterhorn as parnass in HP and a 3 led brass UP also. Also have a SP Baltic Luxeon and a XLR- insane long run time Baltic- you can't go wrong with any of these. Do yourself a favor and look into gettin a set of Sanyo Eneloops- LSD (low self discharge) NiMH AAA- they are the best battery I have used for most EDC conditions. The energizer lithiums will crank out more light- but are a bit more pricey.

 

[TonkinWarrior]

RageCage and 22 Hornet make some very good points here, Goathens.

1 x AAA battery lights are just not known for flat/long run-times. The little Fenixen ain't bad here, but they aren't built as reliably durable (re anodizing, threads, in my opinion) as a Peak. Plus, all that multi-mode twistin' on aluminum threads does take its toll over time. Still, there are ways to mitigate your run-time concerns:

1. Get a 2 x AAA body (i.e., a Fujiyama, or a Baltic w/a 2 x AAA body). Either of these'll get ya closer (maybe by 60%) to the super (25 hr.) run-time of your classic Infinity Ultra.

2. Get a standard Baltic (1 x AAA) in its lowest power setting (XLR/50 CP -- kinda like a Matterhorn 1-LED HP). This should easily beat your 10 hr. run-time objective.

3. Use top quality batteries. Test 'em BEFORE you use 'em (i.e., in a ZTS tester) and occasionally DURING their life. I personally prefer Energizer L92 AAAs for these applications because (a) they're lighter than alkalines, and (b) they produce flatter, better-regulated discharge curves. In other words, you'll get more "useful" light for 80% of the battery's life. The remaining 20% "tail" of diminished moon light is okay, I guess, in a desperation/survival scenario, BUT (see Point #4 below)...

4. Pack a back-up battery -- or two! AAAs are so small they're easy to carry in a pocket, briefcase, or 24K gold/titanium/unobtainium condom dispenser (extra large, of course!). Or consider getting a small, inexpensive plastic battery case (check these dealers: Battery Junction, or Cases For Less) for these.

5. Get a Peak Matterhorn... either a 1-LED (in HP, not UP) for better run-time with a floody beam like your old Infinity Ultra, OR a 3-LED (in HP, not UP) for a brighter/tighter/more throwy beam. And, see point #4 above.

My small EDC lighting tool needs are similar to yours. I've tried Arcs, Fenixen, and others, but for the last year I've been tickled with my tough SS Peak 3-LED lug-body Matterhorn HP on a steel-bead neck lanyard, 24/7. And, yeah, I also go hands-free sometimes -- with no dreaded drool damage, un-P.C. slobber slurping, or communicable diseases acquired! The light still looks like new, too.

(However, I also usually marinate my Matterhorn in Jack Daniels beforehand!)

 

[RAGE CAGE]

TW may be onto something here- a SS bar straw that is male threaded for
the non-lug (Key-Chain) SS PEAKS to stir cocktails with at the PUB.

but seriously.......
The SS is bombproof- I would put it up against any single AAA light out there- titanium or otherwise.

 

[Curt R]

There are a few things that have to be considered when comparing one flashlight to another. In this case a Fenix EO to a 5 mm LED Matterhorn. It has been mentioned that the electronics is superior in the Fenix and why can't the Matterhorn do as well. I will also include the single LED UP Matterhorn vs. the XLR Baltic Sea comparison, both using the same Alkaline AAA battery.

First the LED: The 5 mm LED used in the Matterhorn is less efficient than the Seoul P4U2 used in the Baltic Sea, and I would assume the referenced Fenix EO. To drive the 5 mm LED to 6.5 Lumens requires 60 mA while the Seoul P4U2 only requires 25 mA of drive current. From a 1.5 volt AAA Alkaline battery through a step up or boost circuit requires an average of 308 mA for the 5 mm LED. The Seoul P4U2 requires 90 mA from the battery for the same output in Lumens.

Second the Alkaline AAA battery: This battery was not designed for high current draws. The original requirement was for a constant output of 30 mAh. If we look at the larger AA size that was designed for a constant current draw of 100 mAh, (three times as much), we can see what a disadvantage the AAA has with high outputs. At 30 mA draw, the AA battery capacity is 2800 mAh or 100%. At 100 mA draw the capacity is 2500 mAh or 89%. At 250 mA draw the capacity is 1800 mAh or 64%. At 500 mA draw the capacity is 1300 mAh or 46%. At 1000 mA draw the capacity is 900 mAh or 32%. The AAA battery results are even worse in percent capacity and it starts out at only 1200 mAh at 30 mA draw.

The reason for reduced battery capacity to higher current draws is internal electrical resistance buildup of both electronic and ionic conditions. To pack as much capacity as possible into a limited space, the current collector within the Anode mixture of an Alkaline battery is a thin wire. This combined with other mechanical parts constitutes the electronic resistance buildup. The Ionic resistance is the chemical reaction and heat build up in reference to the amount of current draw per time factor.

A single 5 mm LED UP Matterhorn at 40 Candela, (6 to 7 Lumens), will run for 6 hours with good light output and then for another 14 hours of usable light. The light output will be on a continual decline due to the combination of battery capacity and LED efficiency. As the battery capacity declines the power board works harder, decreasing boost conversion efficiency and also resulting in less light output and run time. The Baltic Sea XLR using the Seoul P4U2 will produce 7 to 8 Lumens for 17 hours before it starts to lose good output using the same battery and the same electronic board to power the flashlight. The Pacific XLR using the AA battery runs for 45 hours before it starts to lose good usable light output.

The only difference between the UP Matterhorn and the XLR Baltic Sea and the XLR Pacific is the LED technology.

Curt

 

[goathens]

I decided to pull the trigger on the Baltic 1xAAA in "standard power" mode (not XLR, but the next one up). I couldn't resist upgrading the LED technology (a seoul instead of a 5mm). Maybe I'll post pics later...

Curt, thanks for your help and I had a great time talking to you guys on the phone.

 

[RAGE CAGE]

They are nice people- no doubt about it. I think you made the right choice with the SP. Did you end up going with the stainless steel?

 

[goathens]

yeah I went with stainless. It was a bit more pricey, but my last light was aluminum and it was looking pretty dinged up when a burst battery sealed the deal by destroying the outer coating (made a post about it in the regular LED Flashlights forum). I like the weight, and was used to a AA battery flaslight in my pocket, so hopefully the battery weight decrease will somewhat mitigate the aluminum->steel weight increase.

I didn't exactly go with "SP" per se. At Peak, that apparently means "Super Power". I think the official choices were XLR (about 40 candlepower) that would last 17 hours, then HP (about 140 candlepower), which would only last around 3 hours(a bit too short for my tastes). Curt was nice enough to give me a custom level of about 90-100 candlepower that would last about halfway inbetween (my sweetspot of 10 hours, hopefully). This was all with a cheap alkaline AAA.

Disclaimer: That phone conversation, while informative, had ALOT of numbers, mAs, candlepowers, lumens, and runtime estimations. I think I got the right light for my needs, but my summary above may not be precisely correct due to my own confusion.

incidentally, RageCage, how long does your baltic (the non-XLR model) run until you notice it's dimming?

 

[RAGE CAGE]

"incidentally, RageCage, how long does your baltic (the non-XLR model) run until you notice it's dimming? "

goathens-funny you mention that- I was planning to check the run time with a fresh Ravoac UltraPro alkaline and a fresh eneloop NiMH cell this weekend while camping- I will let you know.

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