pila 150s pak for arc4

[Rothrandir]

here is a pack i made for the arc4, intended to use a pila 150s battery.

i've been wanting to do this since before i even had an arc4. due to the amazing kindness of frenchyled (hi russian /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif), i now have one! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

with a higher voltage, and decreased internal resistance, the pila batteries are a wonderful thing indeed! and with a converter such as the one in the arc4, they really shine.

i chose to use a 150s because it was only a bit longer than a 123, and as it turns out, the form factor is much better than the standard arc4. as you can see in the second picture, it fits my hand perfectly.

this pak is only a proto, because i wasn't paying attention, and faced it a little too short /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif as a result, the battery goes in too far, making the tight tolerances of the tension not work properly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
it can turn on and off, and change brightness levels, but i can't get into the advanced menu's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
being too short anyway, i didn't take a whole lot of care as i finished making the thing, as it will only last long enough to make another one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
as a result, the knurling isn't quite perfect, and the top threads are a little shallower than they really should be.
not sure how i'm going to do the knurling on the next one. i like the little groove on the top for the clip, but i'm not convinced it looks quite right.

i've got a pila 168s in my e2e 5wpr, and now a 150s in an arc4, these things really rock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

when the 2-123 pak comes out, i hope it will work with a 168s, and maybe eventually peter or someone might look into a pak for the 150s.

i can't find the stupid brass spacers for my pila charger, so i've been running off a dead 150s for the past while, but as soon as i can find them to charge the battery up, i'll do a runtime test on level 1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
i'm anxious to see how the efficiency reacts to the higher voltage of the pila...

and i might as well go out and say it here, both the arc4 and the pila are some of the best flashlight related products i've had the pleasure dealing with! i can't say how thrilled to death i am with both of them. major thumbsup to peter gransee and jonsydneyb /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[Tweek]

You're not helping me resist the Arc any there, Roth... I want one, but I want to wait for Rev2, plus most all my $$$ is tied up right now, to boot... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Chris

 

[Frenchyled]

Nice post Roth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif And Nice 150s pack too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
I want one 150s pack please, but only HA and without scratches /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif And if possible whom I can get into the advanced menu's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

A pre production run would be accepted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

 

[hotbeam]

If I had an Arc4, I'd get you to make me one too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Klaus]

The line after frenchy is right behind me Howie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Klaus

 

[jtice]

Excellent work roth, looks good to me.

I like the groove in the knurling for the clip.

Does seem to be a great length.

 

[Frenchyled]

Hotbeam, Klaus and all other here who want ARC4+, I know a very good address to get one, try this link :
Get your Arc4+

Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

 

[Klaus]

Frenchy,

been there done that - #245 actually - but I was talking about the 1.5x123 sized body for it to run a 17500 LiIon as there is no need for expensive PILAs IMO when the ARC4s circuit (as the SF L4s circuit too) will perfectly take care of not discharging bare LiIons too much - the standard ARC4 body runs nicely with the 123-sized 17735 LiIons as well Jon has been selling recently - ARC4 and LiIon is a match made in heaven.

Roth - need a beta-tester for the protoype /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Klaus

 

[BC0311]

Great job, Rothy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Britt

 

[kakster]

Klaus : Have you tried discharging the Rechargable CR123s to see when the ARC4 shuts down? I've managed to run mine all the way down to 2.2v without the ARC turning itself off.
The 'safe' discharge level for Li-Ions is meant to be 3v, yes?

 

[Klaus]

Kakster,

3V seems to be the VERY safe level, most data sheets say 2.8 and until at least 2.5 there´s no real danger IF you then slowly charge the cell back to 3V first before pushing 1C charge current into it subsequently.

AFAIR remember the ARC4 will shut off properly IF you handle it right, Peter once mentioned an issue the mastermind behind the ARC4s electronics, Henry, brought up and which makes perfect sense, let me try to repeat that properly:

For the Li-Ion discharge protection the ARC4 needs to KNOW its a LiIon in the first place - it will recognize an LiIon on insertion by its voltage between 3.7V to 4.5V and subsequently shut down at ~3vish.

IF you remove the cell all the time to check for the voltage it will on re-installation no longer recognize it as a Li-Ion but at around 3.2ish it will look more like a 123 Lithium cell and no longer protect it against discharge. You MIGHT have fallen in THAT trap when testing this. Make sure that when you remove the cell to check for voltage you re-insert it quickly enough and when the RFS comes up you had been too slow and the Li-Ion probably was recogmized as a 123 and WILL get discharged to low.

On the other side this is a safety net when all hell breaks lose and you can throw an empty Li-Ion (which probably will get damaged) into the ring when nothing else is left /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Klaus

 

[Frenchyled]

Thank Klaus, very usefull information for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

And for my precedent post, no offense here,it's just a kidding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Klaus]

[ QUOTE ]
FrenchyLed said:
And for my precedent post, no offense here,it's just a kidding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem Pascal, some nice Bordeaux will help me over this - I´ll PM you my address /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

As per the single bare LiIon and ARC4 - as I was testing Arcmanias SF-3 with a single bare 17670 right now anyway I thought why not just retest the 17735 LIon as well - it just now fall out of regulation and the ARC4 stepped down quite visibly from level 1 to 2,3,4,5 ... quite fast that it was VERY obvious the cell needs to be recharged - I´m not sure if I really want to test this any further - at least when I removed it from the ARC4 is was at EXACTLY 3V - sofar I would like to say /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif to Henry and Peter @ ARC and Q.E.D /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One might still claim that the light was still working and current was drawn but there was still room to go and a fool will always find a way to destroy things - but as a reminder: bare unprotected Li-Ions are not for the careless and shouldn´t be used by someone who hasn´t looked into the dangers of this technologie - and I get goosbumps with Kaksters picture of those cells in a M6 cell holder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Klaus

And here is Peters detailed comments on those cells and the ARC4:

QUOTE:

FYI (and you all probably already know this) the Arc4 will detect the cell as a lithium ion if the initial voltage is between 3.4v-4.4v. Lithium-ion cells should never be discharged below 2.5V. Hence the Arc4 protection circuit turns off the LED between 2.5 and 2.75 volts typically. This is designed to protect the cycle life of the cell. If however, you are in an emergency, you may bypass the protection feature by turning the light back on again after it shuts off. The light will then remain on for as long as it can but your cell cycle life may be reduced as a result. Therefore, it you are not in an emergency I would recommend that you swap out the cell when the Arc4 automatically drops down and eventually shuts off.

We recommend that you only put fully charged rechargeable cells in the Arc4 to insure that they can be properly detected.

Running the Arc4 at full power will draw almost an amp from the rechargeable but the cells seem to handle this ok. Factory Seconds however may draw too much current and cause the cell to go into short circuit protection although I have yet to see or hear of this happening.

I have also tested the cells in an Arc4x drawing over 1.5 amps with no problems.

From Henry's notes:

Lithium-ion cells have a nominal open terminal voltage of 4.1 to 4.2
volts when fully charged - depending on the exact chemistry used.
Li-ion cells use a technique called constant current constant voltage
for recharging. After conditioning (very slow charging to bring up the
terminal voltage to a minimum value) they are charged at a constant
current until the voltage raises to the prescribed limit and then they
are charged at a constant voltage until the current drops to a
specified value, then charging is terminated. The voltage values have
a tolerance of around 1% to avoid damaging the cell. The maximum and
final current are set by the cell capacity. Hence, chargers are
designed for specific cells and should not be used with cells they were
not designed for.


I do not recommend you use these cells on the older LSL/LSH models. The LED may get too much current.

Only the Arc4 is designed specifically to use these cells.

Peter

 

[Frenchyled]

Hehe, it's seems you like French Wine Klaus /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
But I am very sorry in my cellar I have only hundred of Bourgogne, no Bordeaux here, eventually some nice Côtes Roties, but it's only for connoisseurs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

And now in the subject. I make some test with my arc4 and RC123A from Jon. Here some result, after modding the charger to 4.17 Volts.
Arc4+ At Level 4 :
T 00mn = 4.13 Volts
T 15mn = 3.97 Volts
T 30mn = 3.88 Volts
T 45mn = 3.81 Volts
T 60mn = 3.75 Volts
T 75mn = 3.72 Volts
T 90mn = 3.59 volts
T 95mn = 2.95 Volts the level began to fall, and the batterie voltage fall to 2.65Volts and quickly up to 2.95.

Roth, let us know if you can, the run time with a pila 150s /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[Klaus]

[ QUOTE ]
FrenchyLed said:
But I am very sorry in my cellar I have only hundred of Bourgogne, no Bordeaux here, eventually some nice Côtes Roties, but it's only for connoisseurs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Frenchy - you are killing me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just run down a second LiIon in my ARC4 and after it dropped to lower levels it stayed for another hour or so in moon mode and when I got impatient and took the cell out it still was at 2.9V right after removal - so we can really safely assume that the ARC4 knows properly how to handle Li-Ions and the destructive discharge to 2.0V was probably due to removal and re-insertion at a lower voltage and therefore the ARC4 was unable to detect the Li-Ion.

Klaus

 

[Chop]

Roth,

Just FYI, I recently built a tube for the Arc4+ to accomodate a Pila 168S. I turned it specifically for the 168S and, in spite of any differences in length, the body also worked perfectly for 2X123's as well.

Thought I'd pass this along, just in case you're looking for something to do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, have you looked at the circuit? Can the current be bumped up?

 

[Rothrandir]

thanks guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

chop, that is good news!

i really like the 150s size, and hopefully peter will be coming out with the 2-123 soon. what you say is good news though, i'm happy to hear that a pila might indeed work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

no, i haven't looked at the circuit yet. i wanted to take it apart soooooooooooo desperately, but i think i'll wait until i have a rev2 first /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
but i'd guess no...more likely you'd just need to reprogram the software, since this is essentially a computer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif