Pila questions...

[Reno]

I'm a new Pila owner. I'm direct driving an SYOL LuxIII in an E2e with a mighty PR-T head, and loving every minute of it.

Regarding Pila care;

Is it safe to leave them in the charger?

What kind of shelf life am I looking at between charges?

Led Indicator=Orange - Batteries getting juice

Led Indicator=Green - Go play again

Right??

Thanks guys,

Steve

 

[JonSidneyB]

yep, Green is go play again. Orange is getting juice. It is safe to leave them in a charger. Someone did a shelf life test, I think the person who did the test is JanCPF. If you do a search on this person going back a month, maybe two. You should find this thread. The fade is very very small.

I am glad you like the Pilas.
Thanks
Jon

 

[Reno]

Answers from The Man himself!! Your customer service rocks, Jon!

BTW, can I 'top them off' without shortening their service life?

 

[JonSidneyB]

Reno>
Yes, you sure can. It is not a full charge, just part of a charge to top them off.

 

[fivemega]

Is charger smart not overcharging previously charged cells?

 

[JonSidneyB]

The batteries are smart. They will not overcharge.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Steve,

I might also add that LiIon rechargeable batteries last longer and perform better when they are frequently topped off. They do quite well when used for a full discharge cycle, but seem to do better when frequently topped off.

Tom

 

[CM]

I agree, I always top mine off. That's the best thing with Li-Ions is that you can always have them 100% ready without worry about voltage depression like Nicad's or NiMH.

CM

 

[Reno]

I rotate mine every day. My indicator lights are orange for like 5-30 minutes a day. Thanks for the advice, fellas!!

 

[Doug S]

[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Steve,

I might also add that LiIon rechargeable batteries last longer and perform better when they are frequently topped off. They do quite well when used for a full discharge cycle, but seem to do better when frequently topped off.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I have seen statements in manufacturers' literature that says that longterm deterioration rate is lower when cells are not at full charge. Even just a bit off of full charge appears to extend shelf life. Unless the application requires assurance that the cells are at 100% capacity, I would avoid routinely topping off.

 

[JonSidneyB]

I will follow up on this. I wonder if the best thing to do is charge fully then use for minute then store. I have heard different but my memory could be wrong or what I read could be wrong.

Thanks for the info Doug.

 

[Klaus]

[ QUOTE ]
Doug S said:
[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Steve,

I might also add that LiIon rechargeable batteries last longer and perform better when they are frequently topped off. They do quite well when used for a full discharge cycle, but seem to do better when frequently topped off.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I have seen statements in manufacturers' literature that says that longterm deterioration rate is lower when cells are not at full charge. Even just a bit off of full charge appears to extend shelf life. Unless the application requires assurance that the cells are at 100% capacity, I would avoid routinely topping off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Second Doug

Storage is adviced at 1/2 charge - and IMO only because it could discharge itself for years and still not go below any safe treshold, so it seems the lesser the charge the better

Klaus

 

[PeLu]

For long time storage just charge with 3.6V constant voltage first. This should give about 50% charge.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Doug S,

I am sorry I was not clear in my statement.

You are correct. For long term storage where you are not using the cells every day, you want to store them at a reduced charge.

However, if you are using them every day, I believe it is better to top them up frequently rather than run them completely down before charging them back up.

Sorry for the confusion.

Tom

 

[Doug S]

[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Doug S,

I am sorry I was not clear in my statement.

You are correct. For long term storage where you are not using the cells every day, you want to store them at a reduced charge.

However, if you are using them every day, I believe it is better to top them up frequently rather than run them completely down before charging them back up.

Sorry for the confusion.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom, you were clear. Even though the recommendation for storage at partial charge is generally seen in the context of long term storage, I believe that the same physics/chemistry applies for the "storage" that occurs between uses even if those storage intervals are very short, i.e., daily use.

 

[CM]

Topping off in my case is actually less than 100% charged. My charger terminates around 4.12V. You need to watch the Pila chargers since my charger terminates the cycle when the terminal voltage is 4.30V which is excessive IMO. Maybe my Pila charger is off so I just use my home made charger that terminates at less than 100%. Keeping the cells at 100% does tend to shorten their life somewhat, hence I don't use the Pila charger anymore.

 

[JonSidneyB]

Thanks CM,
Perhaps we can get people to tell us where thier charger terminates at. I think there might be some variance since I have had a couple op people tell me that they are not charging up to 4.2

 

[CM]

Jon,

I'm hoping mine is an anomaly. It is actually a Wolf Eyes unit and probably one of the first ones made so the newer ones that Wolf Eyes makes for Pila may be charging at more "friendly" levels. I'm tempted to just rip it open and see if it can be modified to terminate charge at a lower voltage. Nothing's safe from modding in my household /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CM

 

[Floating Spots]

CM, is 4.3 volts the terminal voltage on the charger or off?
Don't forget there is some drop in the charging circuit.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Jon,

Here are my observations:

Open circuit voltage on the Pila charger is 4.6 volts.

Voltage drops to 4.1 volts while charging the Pila battery.

The Pila 168S is at 3.88 volts at the end of the charge cycle.

I am under the impression that this has to do with the protection circuit in the battery. I believe the charger is does not have any smart controller circuit in it.

Tom