Preparing for a new lathe

[bluwolf]

After Will looked at the used lathe for me and we decided it was not a good choice I had already decided I would get a new one. At the risk of sounding like "me too" I had decided on a PM1236.

So I called and talked to Matt. Long story short, they're out of stock. I'm looking at 4 to 6 weeks. I was dissappointed but realized I have a lot to do before the lathe gets here anyway.

I've gone through all the old threads, not the least of which was Will's thread on his new lathe. But it's tough to keep it all straight. I'm not sure if there are too many variables for this to be a reasonable question. Maybe that's why I've never come across it before on any of the forums I've been on.

If you had a new lathe coming what would your list be to prepare for it? For those that have one, what did you do to prepare for it's arrival. Maybe a better question is, what would you have done differently if you were to do it over? Is it possible to put this in something resembling a checklist? If so, it might be able to help others in the future as well as me right now.

I'll give some examples of my questions. I have a 7x12 lathe. There is nothing from that lathe that will transfer to the 1236. So I need all new tooling.

The recent thread about insert comparisons helped me to a point. Then I got a headache. From that thread I gathered that CNMG and WNMG were the most common inserts. After that the rest of the designations in the part #s start to blur for me. Is there a reasonably priced set of insert holders/inserts that would get me started for basic turning, facing, boring?

I know the all the lubes will need to be changed after break-in. This assumes that it comes with all the boxes filled in the first place. Will's did and I asked Matt about this. He said sometimes yes, sometimes no. Is there a general consensus on which fluids to use, and how much do you need to have on hand to fill/replace once you have the lathe?

I now realize I could go on and on. So I'll phrase the question like this. What advice would you give someone that would help them or save them a lot of grief if you could do it BEFORE they got the lathe and started making mistakes or forgetting things?

Wow. This is beginning to sound like too vaque a question even to me. Maybe that is why I've never seen the answer before. Feel free to rephrase the question for me. Or tell me what questions I should be asking myself. Any two cents worth will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[precisionworks]

Is there a reasonably priced set of insert holders/inserts that would get me started for basic turning, facing, boring?

MSC/JL has a special that includes the CNMG-4xx holder plus a CNMG-4xx boring bar plus 10 inserts for $149. Figure that the 10 inserts would cost at lease $50, so you get the holder + boring bar for $100 more, which is a decent price.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRI...rid=15610Pstoreid=1040626Ppagenumber=25Pmode=

The boring bar (A16MCLNR4) is 1" diameter x 12" long with a coolant through hole that accepts a standard air fitting - which is how I use mine.

The turning holder (MCLNR124B) is 3/4" shank - you'll have to mill down the bottom side of the shank so it fits your tool holder block.

I doubt that you currently have a 1" boring bar holder, so add that to the list & you're ready to turn/face/bore. That particular bar + insert needs a starting hole about 1.125" diameter (IIRC). You can buy or make bushings so that smaller bars will fit into the same holder.

A 3/4" boring bar is really handy, as you'll sometimes needed the "smaller" bar. MSC/JL usually has these on sale as well.

I just did an eBay search & could find nothing better than the $149 kit, but that can change on a daily basis.

 

[bluwolf]

Thanks Barry,

I'll show more of my ignorance. In the picture it looks like the boring bar is 3/4" and the insert holder is 1". I'm probably missing something. And can I face with that holder? I've always turned with a RH holder and faced with a LH holder. Now you see how much I've got to learn.

I was gonna be more specific in the first post. But it was already getting too long. One of the reasons for the bigger lathe is to to do a couple of bigger projects. But I also do a good bit of smaller stuff.

Among other things many here make flashlights. I make pens. I would like to try making some titanium barrels. For their I.D. I would think I would be reaming as opposed to boring? If so, any suggestions?

What type of drill bits work best in harder stuff like ti? How about center drills? I'm sure I've got more questions.....

Mike

 

[gadget_lover]

Congrats on the purchase!

I have to disagree with the thought that the 7x12 tooling will not work for the bigger lathe. It will often work, but will still have limitations similar to when you used them on the 7x12.

For boring small, shallow diameters, the same 3/8 inch shank boring bars will work if you adapt/make/buy a holder for them.

Your 3/8 inch turning tools will fit in a larger tool holder, but the holder will have to ride higher to bring the tool's cutting edge to center height. You will still have similar DOC limitations, but they can be used while waiting for the bigger, stiffer tools to arrive.

I imagine that there will be times when you want to have a small, skinny tool to reach in someplace. But I'm a packrat that keeps old versions of everything.



Daniel

 

[precisionworks]

In the picture it looks like the boring bar is 3/4" and the insert holder is 1"

The bar in the kit is 1" diameter, and the holder shank is 3/4x3/4.

I would like to try making some titanium barrels. For their I.D. I would think I would be reaming as opposed to boring?

On a pen barrel, you'll have a small diameter hole that's really long, which is a tough job for a boring bar. Drilling and reaming is probably the easiest way to go.

What type of drill bits work best in harder stuff like ti? How about center drills?

For hole drilling like this, with a large L/D ratio, solid carbide drills are tough to beat. They are much more rigid than HSS drills, giving less deflection and better accuracy. They can also be fed faster, which is really important in Ti to avoid work hardening. The same applies to solid carbide center drills.

 

[darkzero]

For hole drilling like this, with a large L/D ratio, solid carbide drills are tough to beat. They are much more rigid than HSS drills, giving less deflection and better accuracy. They can also be fed faster, which is really important in Ti to avoid work hardening. The same applies to solid carbide center drills.

Sorry to be a bit off topic, but I came across a thread related to drilling Ti this past week. http://www.mmsonline.com/dp/forums/forum_results.cfm?t_id=3188&f_id=99&pub=MMS

The OP states that he heard it was common practice to maintain continuous feed when drilling Ti to avoid having to recut through the areas hardened by the drill point but could not obtain good drill life unless using the peck method. Another poster is saying to use HSS + CO & not harder metals due to their sharp cutting edges? What does the "CO" mean when they are referring to carbide + CO & HSS + CO? Any thoughts on this?

There's also talk about changing the cutting angles on the drill bits. Another poster mentioned Boelube. I did some reading on it & ordered some oil & paste last week. Anyone use this stuff?



BTW, Mike congrats on the PM1236! I can't wait till the day I move up to a bigger lathe.

 

[wquiles]

Mike,

As you know by now, I am pretty "visual" when it comes to machining, so instead of just text, I will post a "few" pictures that I just took for you, of the cutting tools I recommend for the 12x lathe:

1) Phase II BXA Wedge Type Tool Post. On special from Enco with 4-5 holders for $189:
Enco part #: SV890-9637

This post shows how I got it installed in the 12x lathe:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2776862&postcount=172


2) For turning/facing, same tip Barry gave you - a CNMG 4xx series tool, like the one I use - this is how I do the bulk of my work on the lathe:

3) For parting, I feel one should have two tools, a carbide insert cut-off tool for metal, and a much sharper one for plastics. After trying several blades/tips for a couple of years, this carbide insert tool is what I have settled on - simply fantastic performance:

4) For parting plastics, this is totally awesome - it is a fine grain, extremely sharp carbide tipped blade:

5) You need at least two boring bars, a "small" one and a "medium" size one. You get to decide that is small/medium, depending on your particular uses/needs. And like Barry said above, spring for the solid carbide - it is definitely worth it. I also have a 12" solid steel boring bar that I used exclusively to do the internal boring on my 1xD's for fitting the FM 4xAA adapters, but if you get the kit Barry mentioned above, you will also get the "large" size boring bar, but you still need the smaller ones. These two are 3/8" and 1/2" - both solid carbide.

5.5) I have a 7/8" solid carbide CNMG 4xx boring bar that I bought on Ebay last Friday, but it has not arrived yet, so I don't have a photo yet - but this is the Ebay listing - this will likely replace the 1/2" solid carbide bar that I showed on top:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390062121229&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


6) For internal threading, this tool is the bomb - I have cut over 40 hosts with that same tip, and it is still doing a great job on the 1xD customs that I sell - the top does not even appear to have any wear yet!:

7) You need a "really" good Chuck for the tailstock. My choice is the Jacobs Ball-bearing Super Chuck, specifically the model 16N, shown here in my old 8x lathe:
Enco part# SV505-8005

This post shows how I got it installed in the 12x lathe:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2771970&postcount=129



8) For external threading, you have tons of choices - this is what I use:

I have more lathe tools, but these are the ones I feel are most important/useful

Will

 

[precisionworks]

common practice to maintain continuous feed when drilling Ti to avoid having to recut through the areas hardened by the drill point

Ti (and some types of stainless) will harden if the temp at the drill point reaches the hardening temp of the material. The two most common ways to overheat & work harden Ti & SS are to feed too slowly or to run the tool too fast.

Feeding too slowly allows the tool to rub more than it cuts, which generates immense heat. Running too fast does the same thing. The reason to maintain continuous feed to to avoid ever hardening the material. Once you harden Ti or SS, you might as well toss that part in the scrap bin as it is nearly impossible to continue drilling the hole any deeper.

What does the "CO" mean

That's a common reference to Cobalt, which is added to HSS to increase the tools red hardness. Cobalt is sometimes called M42.

changing the cutting angles on the drill bits.

Most solid carbide twist drills are 118 degree split point, but 135 degree is also available.

 

[darkzero]

Thanks Barry! :twothumbs

 

[unterhausen]

Mike,

As you know by now, I am pretty "visual" when it comes to machining, so instead of just text, I will post a "few" pictures that I just took for you, of the cutting tools I recommend for the 12x lathe:


I have more lathe tools, but these are the ones I feel are most important/useful

Will

Great post, thanks for the effort. Don't know how I missed this part of the forum before. I'm just getting started with my lathe and suffering from a lack of funds, but at least I'm getting a better idea of what I should buy when it makes sense.
Eric

 

[darkzero]

Don't know how I missed this part of the forum before.

Sorry to hear that! :nana: This part of the forum is just as bad if not worse. Because of this sub forum I've spent more this year than any year that I've been here on CPF.

 

[bluwolf]

BTW, Mike congrats on the PM1236! I can't wait till the day I move up to a bigger lathe.

Thanks. I've been waiting for almost two years. I just got tired of waiting.

On a pen barrel, you'll have a small diameter hole that's really long, which is a tough job for a boring bar. Drilling and reaming is probably the easiest way to go.

For hole drilling like this, with a large L/D ratio, solid carbide drills are tough to beat. They are much more rigid than HSS drills, giving less deflection and better accuracy. They can also be fed faster, which is really important in Ti to avoid work hardening. The same applies to solid carbide center drills.

So much to learn, so little time....

Mike,

As you know by now, I am pretty "visual" when it comes to machining, so instead of just text, I will post a "few" pictures that I just took for you, of the cutting tools I recommend for the 12x lathe:

I have more lathe tools, but these are the ones I feel are most important/useful

Will

Visual works very well for me. As usual an awesome job. That helps a lot. But then I've come to expect no less from you.

Great post, thanks for the effort. Don't know how I missed this part of the forum before. I'm just getting started with my lathe and suffering from a lack of funds, but at least I'm getting a better idea of what I should buy when it makes sense.
Eric

Suffering from lack of funds, I know that feeling, or I will VERY shortly. These guys do a great job. I belong to a bunch of these types of forums but these guys are the most helpful by far.

Mike

 

[wquiles]

Mike,

Today I got the 7/8" solid carbide boring bar - it is huge!

Here it is compared to the two that I showed earlier, the 3/8" Solid Carbide from Circle, the 1/2" Solid Carbide from SECO (which you just bought from me), and the new, 7/8" no-brand solid carbide that uses CNMG 4xx inserts (note that I have not adjusted the 7/8" bar yet so it looks way tipped down!):

My plan is to use the new 7/8" with the "D" custom 1xD's that I make, but I tried today and it "does" fit inside the "C" body as well


EDIT: I forgot to mention that like the Circle and SECO bars, this no-brand bar also has a coolant through hole


Will

 

[bluwolf]

Will,

You know I'm never lacking for a stupid question. What is the knurled thing over the end of the new bar?

Mike

 

[wquiles]

Will,

You know I'm never lacking for a stupid question. What is the knurled thing over the end of the new bar?

Mike

My father taught me that the only stupid question was the one I did not ask ...

The knurled ring is the back of the Aloris 5C collet holder for the BXA tool post (I posted the special price in the Deals sticky on top of this forum). With the right size/type/shape collet, this 5C holder for the lathe can hold any round, square, or hex diameter bar from anywhere in the 5/64" range (3mm in metric) up to about 1 1/8" (26mm metric). With the right collet you can hold almost anything, plus you can also buy a 5C emergency collet and drill it for anything specific you might have, plus the collet can hold stock much stronger than a drill chuck could

Will

 

[Atlascycle]

My father taught me that the only stupid question was the one I did not ask ...

The knurled ring is the back of the Aloris 5C collet holder for the BXA tool post (I posted the special price in the Deals sticky on top of this forum). With the right size/type/shape collet, this 5C holder for the lathe can hold any round, square, or hex diameter bar from anywhere in the 5/64" range (3mm in metric) up to about 1 1/8" (26mm metric). With the right collet you can hold almost anything, plus you can also buy a 5C emergency collet and drill it for anything specific you might have, plus the collet can hold stock much stronger than a drill chuck could

Will

I'll double check with the collets that we have here but i do not think that a 5Ccollet will have a big enough through hole for any thing bigger than 1" Diameter. The working end will hold up to 1.125" but it is only an inch or so deep.

Jason

 

[precisionworks]

Aloris 5C collet holder for the BXA tool post

You got lucky on that one, Will ... I tried to get the same 33% off on the AXA-5C and it ran up at only 15% off ($140 after discount).

Being both stubborn & cheap, I looked around the web for a while & found that Blue Ridge Machinery has a killer closeout on Dorian, which is interchangeable with (and same quality as) Aloris ... and the price was $75 for the 5C (The Dorian P/N is D25AXA-36)

They currently have only the following items remaining:

D30BXA-1 $29.95
D30BXA-10 $49.95
D30BXA-5 $39.95

http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/bargain_corner/close-out_and_discontinued_items/tool_holders.html

 

[wquiles]

Nice find Barry :thumbsup:

 

[unterhausen]

Which toolpost attachment is this? Is it modified?

Will

 

[wquiles]

Which toolpost attachment is this? Is it modified?

It has been a while, but I think the kit (blade holder, blade and inserts) was Enco's part #SV891-6964. You then use a standard tool holder to clamp the blade holder.

One of my pending projects is still to make my own, combined tool holder and cut-off blade holder into a single piece, much like Dorian's:

I already bought the steel for it, just waiting for "time" to work on it

Will