Primary vs Rechargeable

[kerneldrop]

I read on Elzetta's website that primary batteries are recommended when "life-critical" uses are required...implying that rechargeable batteries are less reliable or might present problems

Is that a widely accepted viewpoint?

I'm new to performance flash-lights...so of course I do what marketing says go directly towards the highest lumen and 21700 Li-ion batteries. haha
But I want to be better than that...i've learned through the precision rifle arena that marketing lies.

Thanks

 

[staticx57]

I would not consider Lithium-Ion as a technology less reliable. Just consider the ISS uses Lithium-ion: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/spacew...ear-effort-to-upgrade-space-station-batteries

Also consider not every Li-Ion is made to the same standards. A Li-ion from a tier 1 OEM should be every bit as reliable when used properly as a CR123A.

You should probably, if you want any form of guarantee use the battery the manufacturer of your light recommends. There are Surefire tactical lights that use 18650. While not necessarily tactical HDS uses Li-Ion as well.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I think any "life-critical" needs requires multiple lights not ONE light because ANY light can fail on you. The disadvantages of primaries are numerous and include:
1)Once you start using them you no longer have a full cell that has a dependable runtime, you have to "remember" how much you used or replace the batteries in the light with new ones to insure that you know you can depend on it. This can get very expensive over time resulting in piles of partially used batteries.
2)Some primaries can leak, others in series can have some danger in use (CR123A cells)
3)Some batteries have less power in them and higher internal resistance which can limit output and runtime often leaving you in the dark when heavy continuous use is required.

As for 18650/21700 cells, here is the advantages over primaries:
1)Higher capacity/volume (greater power density) over most primaries
2)Higher current(power) handling capability (can output more lumens more easily)
3)Can be topped off after use to ensure full capacity when needed.
4)Because they are rechargeable they only need to be stocked ONCE, unlike primaries
5)Lights that are made for these powerful cells have a wider range of output and tremendous runtime without changing batteries
6)Very cost effective and environmentally friendly. The money saved by using rechargeables can be put towards more lights which increase the overall reliability of your lights because 2 is 1 and 3 is 2 and so on, if you can afford an extra light then you can carry an extra one on you so even if you have a failure it isn't life critical.

 

[kerneldrop]

...

...

Thank you, both, for answering my question. I prefer a rechargeable battery -- i have no scientific basis for that preference --...so i was surprised to see a brand build around primaries.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Thank you, both, for answering my question. I prefer a rechargeable battery -- i have no scientific basis for that preference --...so i was surprised to see a brand build around primaries.

Not uncommon as typically retail stores favor non rechargeable lights as they serve an additional function in that people buy a light and also BUY primary batteries for the light and come back and buy more and more and...... Battery manufacturers have a vested interest in not catering to rechargeable devices as they also profit off primaries and include and recommend their brand in the packaging and some people actually believe that they should only use a certain brand of battery in their light (although not a large group).
Catering to removable lithium ion batteries (bare) in lights also poses and additional issue..... liability. User error and improper circuit design can cause problems and lithium ion cells if abused can be dangerous.. even deadly. Not many major light makers that sell to local big box stores want to risk bare lithium ion cells and lights designed for alkaleaks can almost always use nimh.

 

[Katherine Alicia]

When you consider that Li-Ion batts are used in emergency defibrilators, I`d call that pretty "Life Critical", it may have been true once upon a time, but not any more

 

[Owen]

I have no less faith in a quality unprotected li-ion than a CR123A, and the li-ion can be hundreds of times as cost effective over time.
Unprotected, specifically, because the addition of a protection circuit can affect their reliability, and dramatically decreases their durability in the case of mishandling.
I use them all the time in lights they'll fit in, just saying that it introduces a failure point.

There's all kinds of ways people can create problems with li-ion batteries, though, whether through carelessness, ignorance, or just plain stupidity. Crappy cells, crappy chargers, mismatched cells, wrong length cells, overdischarged cells, cells that can't deliver the necessary amps, shorter cells in combination resulting in too much voltage, on and on. It's a lot easier for a manufacturer to just recommend primaries.
From your other thread, you shoot benchrest, in addition to hunting, so I'm assuming you handload.
How many of your rifles' manufacturers recommend that everyone use handloads?
I mean, what can go wrong with that?

 

[orbital]

I have no less faith in a quality unprotected li-ion than a CR123A, and the li-ion can be hundreds of times as cost effective over time.
Unprotected, specifically, because the addition of a protection circuit can affect their reliability, and dramatically decreases their durability in the case of mishandling.
I use them all the time in lights they'll fit in, just saying that it introduces a failure point.

There's all kinds of ways people can create problems with li-ion batteries, though, whether through carelessness, ignorance, or just plain stupidity. Crappy cells, crappy chargers, mismatched cells, wrong length cells, overdischarged cells, cells that can't deliver the necessary amps, shorter cells in combination resulting in too much voltage, on and on. It's a lot easier for a manufacturer to just recommend primaries.
From your other thread, you shoot benchrest, in addition to hunting, so I'm assuming you handload.
How many of your rifles' manufacturers recommend that everyone use handloads?
I mean, what can go wrong with that?

+

----- this ^^^^^^^^:thumbsup:

 

[kerneldrop]

...

The marketing game is very strong. I must live under a rock...I don't know the dangers in Li-Ion batteries. I'm going to read about them. But I do seem to live under a rock, ha

When you consider that Li-Ion batts are used in emergency defibrilators, I`d call that pretty "Life Critical", it may have been true once upon a time, but not any more

Ha, well that ends that.

I'm assuming you handload.
How many of your rifles' manufacturers recommend that everyone use handloads?
I mean, what can go wrong with that?

I never shoot other people's handloads. lol
Maybe I should never use other people's Li-Ion batteries, heh
I need to read more about Li-Ion batteries...sounds like it's a sub-niche to flashlights.

 

[thermal guy]

Primary cells over lithium ion benefits are temperature range and shelf life basically. That and running 2 lithium's unprotected could cause a problem.