Red LED Flashlights?

[flashy bazook]

Astronomy professionals use red light during observation nights. Since these folks should know about light sources (after all, they have to deal with light whose origin can be parsec-eons away from earth -- sorry about the inside joke!) I would go with them as to the ability of red to preserve night vision.

One small correction, the Surefire L1 is no longer offered with a red LED. That means to get one you'd have to convince those of us who have one of the earlier, red LED versions, to part with it...not very likely!

On what other solutions you can use, remember the red color filters. You can use them either with 1" standard bezels (Surefires or clones) or the larger size. Of course, you lose a lot of energy, but so what. You can still achieve your objectives. And you can also have an excellent flashlight that can be used normally (non-red) just by removing the filter, if the 1" version, or even just opening the spring-loaded cover, for the larger version.

 

[cratz2]

I also have a couple of the Nite Ize modules for the Minimag... just like the 3 LED white ones, but they are red. I have one that is 100% stock and one that I slightly sanded the LEDs to get a smoother beam. Not sure if they still make them, but last time I was at my local Fry's, they had one or two.

I used to have an Inova X5 red/black that I used to drain my mostly depleted CR123 cells but a friend 'just had to have it' so I sold it to him. Pretty neat light, built like a tank. Every great once in a while, you'll see them go for decent $$$ on eBay or Amazon, but not usually. I think there's one for sale in the Marketplace for about $65.

 

[Mike 208]

Surefire also made the KL1 and KL3 bezels with a red LED (as well as green, blue and white). However, these may be harder to find than a red L1.

 

[B0wz3r]

Astronomy professionals use red light during observation nights. Since these folks should know about light sources (after all, they have to deal with light whose origin can be parsec-eons away from earth -- sorry about the inside joke!) I would go with them as to the ability of red to preserve night vision.

Actually, my experience with astronomy/astronomers is that their choice of lights is based as much on tradition and superstition as it is on science. The reason red is generally used is because it is at a wavelength that doesn't cause much of a response in any of the receptors in the retina, cones or rods. Thus, when you turn it off, none of your receptors really has been affected by it.

However, one of the side effects of this is that the magnocellular retinal ganglion cell system in the retina and early stages of the visual system is not engaged; this is the system that is responsible for detecting edges of objects, allows motion detection, and is the basis of depth perception. When using a red light, people who must wear glasses to read tend to focus to infinity, regardless of where they are looking. This means it is difficult to read small print and the like, unless you have 20/20 to begin with (which most people don't).

The use of the 'night vision' green is that it's at a wavelength that stimulates the rods very strongly, and at low levels the medium wavelength cones are very slightly stimulated. This means that it engages the magnocellular system, but also the parvocellular system, which is responsible for our perception of fine detail, and prevents the eye from focusing to infinity because it's activated. It's much easier to see fine detail and read small text when using one of the NV green (turquoise actually) lights.

In short, if all you're trying to do is preserve night vision, a deep red works fine. If you are actually trying to do any kind of visual task that requires depth perception and detail acuity while using such a light, then the NVG wavelength lights are the better solution.

 

[sassaquin]

Somebody has a bunch of old stock Surefires on ebay tonight. There are brand new in box RED, green and blue Surefire L1s for reasonable prices. I would pick one up myself except I have an Inova X5 red led (USA made) that lives on my nightstand. It is one of the best and most used light that I own.

 

[Pacecar]

B0wz3r,
Thank you for this great explanation.

 

[Maxbelg]

Don't forget the A2 and A2L. They combine a low floody color (in this case red) with a decent throwy white. Both can be had for reasonable prices these days on CPF MarketPlace.

 

[Yobresal]

Sorry, I know this is not what you're looking for but I am just to proud of this custom build not to show it off every time a red flashlight is mentioned. PT-54 at 650 lumens.

 

[Fenris]

+1 on the proton pro

 

[Mikellen]

Yeah, the X5 is too bright on a fresh cell...but put your half dead cell in there, and it's just right! There's one for sell in the MP right now.

+1! My Inova X5 with red leds is right next to my bed and it is my most used and practical light I own. I use it with a partially depleted CR123A battery and it has just the right illumination to get around at night. The red doesn't "wake up" my eyes and it is so much easier getting back to sleep when using a red light rather than white no matter how dim the white light is. I like the Inova X5 so much I have a couple of spares just in case something happens to the one on my nightstand. I think the one listed in the MarketPlace right now is a great opportunity to purchase one if these hard to find lights.
I also think the Inova X5 with red leds is one of those lights that you wouldn't regret buying.

 

[B0wz3r]

B0wz3r,
Thank you for this great explanation.

My pleasure.

I don't usually play this card in online forums (mostly because it usually elicits derision and insults), but I earned my PhD in perceptual psychology in 2005, and have been teaching sensory perception, cognitive psychology, and physiological psychology (among others) for the last five years in the University of California system, and for the last year in the Cal State system.

I'm happy to pass on any info that may be useful and/or of help.

 

[BARBARIAN-X]

Actually, my experience with astronomy/astronomers is that their choice of lights is based as much on tradition and superstition as it is on science. The reason red is generally used is because it is at a wavelength that doesn't cause much of a response in any of the receptors in the retina, cones or rods. Thus, when you turn it off, none of your receptors really has been affected by it.

However, one of the side effects of this is that the magnocellular retinal ganglion cell system in the retina and early stages of the visual system is not engaged; this is the system that is responsible for detecting edges of objects, allows motion detection, and is the basis of depth perception. When using a red light, people who must wear glasses to read tend to focus to infinity, regardless of where they are looking. This means it is difficult to read small print and the like, unless you have 20/20 to begin with (which most people don't).

The use of the 'night vision' green is that it's at a wavelength that stimulates the rods very strongly, and at low levels the medium wavelength cones are very slightly stimulated. This means that it engages the magnocellular system, but also the parvocellular system, which is responsible for our perception of fine detail, and prevents the eye from focusing to infinity because it's activated. It's much easier to see fine detail and read small text when using one of the NV green (turquoise actually) lights.

In short, if all you're trying to do is preserve night vision, a deep red works fine. If you are actually trying to do any kind of visual task that requires depth perception and detail acuity while using such a light, then the NVG wavelength lights are the better solution.

I'm assuming you're talking about what you see with the light but I'm more concerned with what I see when the light goes out. It's been a few years since I had my eyes checked but at that time I had 20/15 in my left eye and 20/10 in my right if it makes a difference. Either way I don't require glasses for anything. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing there would be no difference between red and NVG wavelength lights if I get jumped in the dark while using the light but now have to rely on my night vision...or would there?

 

[BARBARIAN-X]

+1 on the proton pro

I don't no why I missed that earlier. I ended up looking at the micro but an exposed LED defeats the stealth element. Proton Pro is a great all in one light for my purpose so I will definitely get one.
I think I should be good for now on the red led lights. I'm going to add a Proton Pro and one member sold me his CMG Infinity and another is sell me his red LED Matterhorn so I'm all set. I should have mentioned that I was partial to AA or AAA because CR123's have to be ordered online as we have no source locally. Thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated! B0wz3r I'm still interested in your answer to my question. Thanks! http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?84812-B0wz3r

 

[B0wz3r]

I'm assuming you're talking about what you see with the light but I'm more concerned with what I see when the light goes out. It's been a few years since I had my eyes checked but at that time I had 20/15 in my left eye and 20/10 in my right if it makes a difference. Either way I don't require glasses for anything. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing there would be no difference between red and NVG wavelength lights if I get jumped in the dark while using the light but now have to rely on my night vision...or would there?

Yes, the NVG lights are supposed to be best for when you actually need to use the light to see and perform various tasks. For me it makes a world of difference; my wife is a backyard astronomer and has a very nice telescope capable of seeing objects all the way down to about magnitude 12, galaxies and nebulae. When I'm out with her and I need to read something in particular, the NVG lights work far, far better for me. With the plain red light, after a few minutes, even with my glasses on, I can't read jack... because my eyes have just gone slack so to speak... they've focused to infinity and I can't read anything closer than an arm's length with my glasses on. It either has to be in very large type and/or farther away than about 3 ft.

My understanding of it is that once you go from light to no-light, the NVG should leave you in a better situation. That's because you should have better depth and acuity perception afterward compared to a red light. Your sensitivity might drop a bit, because where you were getting some usable light before, it will now be lost of course. If you were engaged with an attacker in that situation though, I think that after a while you'd learn to rely on your hearing as much, if not more so, than your sight. (Years ago, in college, I had a karate instructor who made us spar with one eye covered, or even blindfolded some times...)

Everyone's different of course, so your mileage may vary. Getting back to my original recommendation, the Photon lights are pretty inexpensive so you could get one of each and try both, and see how you like them. The red ones use a regular 2032 coin cell, and the NVG ones use 2x2016's; however, you can swap them out for 1x2032 and it will lower the overall brightness of the light, and give you more run time as a result. I do this with my NVG photon for astronomy with my wife, and it works very well for that. Most of the other members of our local astronomy club still haven't gotten used to it, and sometimes complain about it, but it just works better for me, so I stick to my guns on it, and try to educate them about how dark adaptation / night vision really works. If Wikipedia doesn't have something on scotopic vision, let me know and I'll post something about it.

Maybe we should ask one of the mods to create a thread about this topic, and sticky it so it will always be there for people to see. I'll be happy to contribute what I can to it.

 

[BARBARIAN-X]

Ok I just ordered a Proton Pro UltravioletUV and a regular Proton Pro so I'll see which I like best. Thanks!

 

[B0wz3r]

Ok I just ordered a Proton Pro UltravioletUV and a regular Proton Pro so I'll see which I like best. Thanks!

Wait, the Proton Pro UV isn't an NVG light... it'll be more like a blacklight really... But, that might be cool too! I've always wanted a UV flashlight just that reason... It might actually work well as a night vision light. I don't remember if it's LRI or Inova that makes them, but they do make a UV coin cell light they call the 'scorpion killer' or something like that... cause spiders and scorpions really light up under UV so it's easy to find 'em and squish 'em. Fortunately, where I live, there's no scorpions, but we do tarantulas!

Sorry... I'm rambling... it's late and I just spent the last three hours chopping firewood, and now Capt. Morgan and Coke are having their way with me! LOL...

 

[moshow9]

ZebraLight will be releasing the H51r Red LED and H31R Red LED headlamps hopefully later this month (up on their homepage)

 

[recDNA]

I just wonder if the NVG wouldn't also be more likely to wake a sleeping man than red by stimulating the rods right through the eyelids?

 

[flashmenow]

Interesting topic ! I just picked up a 5X in red. I located one of the silver body (TI) RED LED lights. Wonderful for preserving night vision, runs on the 1 CR123 and is a battery vampire . Also I picked up a black body 5X that can still be purchased new. It seems the 1 cell runs were before Inova was bought out by Nite Ize in 2010. After 2010 they were produced in a 2 CR123 configuration with a shorter plunger. The RED is 2X as bright as the one cell run.


I started a thread at another forum I frequent that contains all of this information I dug up along the way with some great images. I still have to update the thread with additional images of the 2 CR123 Black body version.

Here :

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?98962-Inova-5X-RED-LEDs


A teaser for you :devil:

 

[JA(me)S]

A little more info on the ZebraLight H51r you might find interesting:

• LED: Cree XP-E Red (Dominant Wavelength 620-630nm)
• Light Output
  • High: H1 100 Lm (0.9 hrs) or H2 60 Lm (2.4 hrs) / 80 Lm (1.7 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe
  • Medium: M1 20 Lm (9 hrs) or M2 10Lm (30 hrs)
  • Low: L1 2 Lm (3 days) or L2 0.2 Lm (16 days)
  • Light output are out the front (OTF) values. Runtime tests are done using Sanyo 2000mAh Eneloop AA batteries.

As mentioned by moshow9, shipping later this month.

- Jas.