Sanyo Eneloops

[cybersoga]

Why does everyone keep mentioning Sanyo Eneloops as the battery of choice, when they only go upto 2100mah? Wouldn't another brand of 2700mah NiMh batteries be better?

Is this just because American's like to call things by brand names?

 

[Niconical]

The reverse of that question would be "Why do people assume one battery is better than another battery just because a manufacturer prints a bigger number on it".

Hey, I can write 3500mah a battery for you if you want, but it won't change how long it lasts

On a more serious note, briefly, the reason eneloops are considered the best is for 2 reasons. 1: They self discharge very slowly. Those 2700mah batteries might seem better when they've just been charged, but within days, even if not used, they will have less capacity than the "lowly" eneloop. 2: Regardless of capacity or self discharge, eneloops are very well made batteries, the best option for high drain devices such as flashlights.

Finally, another consideration is that a 2100mah eneloop is a 2100mah battery. A 2700mah battery could be anything if you go cheap enough, even varying greatly for cells from the same pack. You just never know.

 

[cybersoga]

So are they still better than what other brands are now offering?

 

[Niconical]

There are a few niche areas where a brand other than eneloops would be preferable, but other than that, take this as a general rule: If you have to ask, the answer is eneloops.

Maybe all you need is some AAA batteries for a remote control or a single AAA for a keychain flashlight. Maybe a pair of AA cells for a LED light, or maybe you need 16xAA for some huge Maglite supermodded power-incan. Either way, the answer is eneloops.

However you look at it, eneloops come up winning.

"Oh, I'm not really going to use the flashlight much, or I'll just have them in a device I don't use often".
Answer, eneloops. Any other Nimh will self discharge.

"I'm going to use them 8 hours per day, every day, working them hard".
Answer, eneloops.

Note: There are other brands of LSD (low self discharge) batteries, but eneloops are considered the best.

 

[LEDninja]

When I use other batteries in my digital camera, the camera keep telling me the batteries are empty when they are only half drained (they will still run for many more hours in my portable CD player). As a result I get many more pictures with Sanyo Eneloops (and the rebranded Duracell precharged made in Japan).

Digital cameras and high powered flashlights require a lot of AMPs, not just total capacity. Many of todays 1AA flashlights pull 1.5A from the battery. Digital cameras are worse as they have to run a TFT screen, operate the camera lens and circuits and charge up the flash all at the same time.

Eneloop 2000mAh.

Energizer 2300mAh.

You can see the Energizer cannot maintain 0.5A at 1.2V while the Eneloop with 300 mAh less capacity have no problem producing 2A (up to 10A if you only need to maintain 1V). As many 1AA flashlights need over 1A on high, you may not get full brightness with high mAh but low AMP batteries.

If you use your flashlight or digital camera occasionally, the low self discharge feature of the Eneloop means a good portion of the charge is still there months later.
Birthday party. Reach for digital camera. OOPs! "OK folks, the party is on hold for 12 hours while I charge up my batteries." is NOT an option.

 

[Illum]

Eneloops so far is the only NiMH I've worked with that has the labelled capacity and RETAINS MOST of that while being stored on the car with an internal ambient temperature greater than 90F

Energizers don't seem to do well under the heat, for LSD cells I choose eneloops. if the capacity seems dimunitive to you, pack on some spares

 

[cybersoga]

Thanks for the info, love the graphs!

 

[LEDninja]

Silverfox did the testing. The thread is here:
NiMh Battery Shoot Out
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=79302
Check to see if he has tested any battery you may want to buy.

The sticky at the top of the Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included forum also lists threads where other types of batteries are tested as well as threads of technical information.

 

[pedalinbob]

I believe my current fleet of Rayovac Hybrids (and a few old Kodak 2500's, which have been good batteries) need to be replaced, and this thread (and a couple of others) sealed the deal for Eneloops.
I think my camera is also a bit sensitive to voltage. Though it works ok with the current bats, it is slower than when on lithiums--and, the performance drops rapidly.

I need about 20 of them, so the initial price will be a bit steep, but worth it.

 

[snakyjake]

If you use your flashlight or digital camera occasionally, the low self discharge feature of the Eneloop means a good portion of the charge is still there months later.
Birthday party. Reach for digital camera. OOPs! "OK folks, the party is on hold for 12 hours while I charge up my batteries." is NOT an option.

That's why I use disposable alkalines for the occassional use over long periods. I have a few packs of alkaline batteries is the refridgerator. I also have alkaline in other devices so I can borrow (TV/VCR/DVD/Stereo remotes, flashlights, etc). Worse case scenario is that I run to the store to get some new batteries for the birthday party, or wait approx 1 hr for NiMH batteries on the fast charger.

Worked for me so far, but maybe these low self-discharge batteries are worth it, or maybe just too much hype. I just can't see needing low self-discharge rechargeable batteries for something I use every 6 months.

 

[Black Rose]

I just can't see needing low self-discharge rechargeable batteries for something I use every 6 months.

The LSD batteries give you all the features of alkaline cells, without the risk of them leaking in your devices if you forget about them.

There's also the "buy once, use/charge many times" versus "buy once, use, dispose, buy again" factor.

A single 4 pack of AA Eneloops costs about $10. If taken care of and assuming you can get a minimum 250 charges out of each one, that is equivelent to at least 1000 alkaline cells. You can't get 1000 quality alkalines for $10.

It does takes time to recoup the investment in LSD cells, but in the end you do come out ahead.

 

[odessit]

Eneloops are a very safe bet, They are robust, their capacity is not overrated and on top of that - they have low self discharge. But they are a little more expensive. Eneloop is a standard answer on this board, but this brand is overhyped IMHO.

I am running a test on Eneloop vs Sanyo 2700 to find out discharge rates. At 45 day test Eneloop and 2700 lost the same amount of Ah. Sanyo 2700 is winning.
60 day test is due this Friday, probably I will run it on Monday (making it 63 day test).
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=212883

Because both sets of batteries are new, test will not reveal is whether Eneloop has any advantage over Sanyo 2700 in terms of how many charge/discharge cycles it will last. Maybe I will set something up once I am done testing S.D. rates.
I am also not testing whether Eneloop will behave better than Sanyo 2700 under extreme amp draw, but it is application specific.

 

[cave dave]

Is this just because American's like to call things by brand names?

Actually Sanyo as a battery provider is virtually unheard of in the USA. Very few retail stores carry them. Sanyo the company makes something like 75% of the world market of NiMh but they are rebranded with other manufactures names over here. Duracell sells the Sanyo batteries under the Duracell Precharged Brand. (white label only)

I would agree that Americans in general like their brand names (Sony, Rolex, Maglite, Buck) but CPF is an enthusiast forums and you won't here those names much around here. The real top quality stuff of almost every product is by companies the avg public has never heard of. That's the kind of stuff we like around here, and we know our stuff.

As far as batteries go its a little different, the American and Japanese companies often do produce much superior products than the Chinese no name brands you find on ebay and such. The Chinese lithium primary batteries are pretty much all crap and dangerous to boot. Many of the discount Nimh simply do not live up to the claims. Since there are hundreds of no name brands to choose from nobody has tried them all and CPF as a community has learned to use the proven brands and not risk money on the unknown.

Sanyo 2700, Duracell 2650, Eneloops and Duraloops are all proven performers. To throw your money at anything else can often be a crap shoot.

PS Energizer 2500's are proven poor performers. So even sticking with big names isn't always safe.

 

[GarageBoy]

Ahh this is the first time I've seen any reports on the Sanyo 2700 (I just gave mine away along with a set of 1000mAh AAAs)

 

[cave dave]

Note to my previous post.

There have been some reports of the Sanyo 2700s and other similar High Capacity batteries failing after a bit of use is on them. By failing I mean lower capacities and high self discharge. It always takes a bit of usage for this to happen.

Beware of tests of brand new batteries. It doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[f22shift]

:twothumbs thank you

Eneloops are a very safe bet, They are robust, their capacity is not overrated and on top of that - they have low self discharge. But they are a little more expensive. Eneloop is a standard answer on this board, but this brand is overhyped IMHO.

I am running a test on Eneloop vs Sanyo 2700 to find out discharge rates. At 45 day test Eneloop and 2700 lost the same amount of Ah. Sanyo 2700 is winning.
60 day test is due this Friday, probably I will run it on Monday (making it 63 day test).
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=212883

Because both sets of batteries are new, test will not reveal is whether Eneloop has any advantage over Sanyo 2700 in terms of how many charge/discharge cycles it will last. Maybe I will set something up once I am done testing S.D. rates.
I am also not testing whether Eneloop will behave better than Sanyo 2700 under extreme amp draw, but it is application specific.

 

[ncaudio]

Why does everyone keep mentioning Sanyo Eneloops as the battery of choice, when they only go upto 2100mah? Wouldn't another brand of 2700mah NiMh batteries be better?

Is this just because American's like to call things by brand names?[/ quote]

Due to their design and the amount of space available for materials, the slow discharge batteries don't have as great a capacity as the standard NiMh batteries can have (there's no such thing as a free lunch, yet). I agree with other posters that many of the standard batteries actually have less capacity than rated, but there are other batteries with high ratings such as the Powerex batteries sold by Thomas distributing that perform to or beyond specs and have great service life (I've been using a pile of their cells hard for over 2 years with only 1 failure).

For the majority of people that either use batteries for very low demand items like remotes and/or just once in a while for higher current demand like taking the camera out to shoot a few pictures, the slow discharge batteries are probably great. I use a lot of batteries on a regular basis for bicycle lighting (12 or more at a time for independent systems) and have 4 chargers/testers to keep batteries on standby, the extra 30% capacity is an advantage for my application.

 

[cave dave]

Well I got a 4pk of Duracell 2650's last week from Target who was running a nice T-day weekend special on them and the Duraloops. Somebody had cleaned out the duraloops from the two Targets I visited

Anyway, right off the bat the batteries were acting funny, very inconsistant from battery to battery, charge cycle ending early, and not getting good capacities on my Lacrosse charger. I've been doing some cycling and testing and tried two forming charges as well.

Maybe the 3rd cycle
1934, 1120, 1129, 1160 mAh
About the 4th cycle I got the following:
2530, 2650, 1219, 1113 mAh
5th:
2550, 2710, 1723, 1575 mAh
Currently running another test, 3 are still dis-charging one finished at 2010 mAh.

They seem to be getting better, but I've never experienced this with Eneloops. I have seen this with the Energizer 2500s though. In a month I will report back on Self-discharge.

So far my opinion is :thumbsdown:

Notes:
-Production code indicates a 2007 manufacture date.
-I have not tried the charger with known good batteries to see if the charger has gone bad.

 

[RoadRage]

I found this thread through Google search and it has exactly the info I'm looking for. I realize it's an old thread but am wondering if anyone is still following it? I have questions for LEDninja or anyone else about this data. I use NiMH AA batteries in our product. The current draw is between 1 - 2amps for extended periods in warm environments. Our experience with different brands has been poor to say the least. I am searching for a more reliable/consistent battery for our application. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Lumencrazy]

Anyone know if Eneloop batteries sold on Amazon, by Amazon, are made in Japan?