Semi-noobie charger/battery advice

[MajBach]

Hey everyone. 'Been a long time since I used these forums to help me decide on a decent LED flashlight. I now have several lights I use while on duty or for personal use.
I am back to ask a few questions and seek help on buying a charger.
I have already spent a few hours Google'ing all this to little avail.

First off, what does "AW Protected RCR" mean? It's a term bounced around a lot here yet I cannot find a definition. Also, in some of the reviews the term 'direct drive' is used when running a little at max. What does this mean?

Secondly, I am no slouch to battery technology or usage (thanks in no small part to sites like this one) and even own a $120 NiMH charger, but Li ion is new territory for me and I just haven't got the time to learn it all myself.

Almost all of my lights take a CR123. A couple take 18650 or a 17xxx or 2 "RCR"s (I do not know what that means). When I decided to enlighten myself to buy a Li ion charger, there were just to many uncertainties between capacities and voltages, "run times", "direct drives" etc. to figure it all out on my own. For example, my M20 runs on 2xCR123s or 1x18650 but the volatges for these cells are the same so wouldnt 2 CR123 have twice the voltage?
To get to the point, I am looking for decent (but not over the top) Li ion charger for CR123 cells and also a supply - say a dozen - batteries.
I know quality and components on battery chargers can be night and day and the difference in usage and maintenance between NiCd, NiMH and alklines is equally as varied. Are Lithiums the same?
Please suggest some chargers, battery types/brands and places on-line when I can obtain them (pref Canada sites so I canb avoid customs and delays).
Thanks a million in advance.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello MajBach,

Welcome to CPF.

AW is a CPF member that sells Li-Ion cells. You can visit the Marketplace and get an idea of the cells he offers. He has put a lot of effort into providing quality cells at a reasonable price.

RCR is an abbreviation for Rechargable CR123 cells. I usually refer to them as R-CR123, but that is not quite as short.

Many lights have circuits that step up or reduce the voltage of the battery. Direct drive runs straight from the battery. An 18650 cell has a nominal voltage of 3.7 volts where a CR123 cell under load is just under 3 volts. If the circuitry in the light is able to "adjust" the voltage, you can run a single 18650 cell in a light that is designed to run with 2 CR123 cells, if it will fit. Some of these lights will not allow for an 18 mm diameter cell, and you have to drop down to a 17 mm diameter cell.

You should be able to do a search on R-CR123 cells and find some comparisons between the various brands, and the better chargers are the hobby chargers used by the people involved in radio controlled hobbies (RC). Schulze and Hyperion are a couple to look at, and there are many others as well.

Tom

 

[MajBach]

Very informative and very helpful. Thanks.

Still a little foggy on what to look for in a charger though.

 

[MajBach]

One other thing: are all lithiums batteries 'protected' as in the "AW Protected.."? How important is this and how does one tell?

 

[CaseyS]

Not all lithium batteries are protected. For instance, AFAIK, there are no protected AAA size lithium batteries (10440's). AW sells both protected and unprotected versions of his batteries. In my (limited) experience, a protected battery will always be advertised as such. It's important to use protected batteries. Some people use unprotected 10440's in their AAA flashlights, but they're taking a risk, and hopefully are being very careful to not over-discharge them.

As far as chargers, 4sevens sells and recommends the WF-139 charger ($15.50). People who are will willing to spend more often recommend the Pila IBC charger ($45), available at flashlightz.com

 

[JBorneu]

Read the thread linked in my signature. It should answer all your questions about using Li-ion cells.

 

[clintb]

Not all lithium batteries are protected. For instance, AFAIK, there are no protected AAA size lithium batteries (10440's). AW sells both protected and unprotected versions of his batteries. In my (limited) experience, a protected battery will always be advertised as such. It's important to use protected batteries. Some people use unprotected 10440's in their AAA flashlights, but they're taking a risk, and hopefully are being very careful to not over-discharge them.

This is mostly true, except for lights that have over discharge protection built-in, such as the LiteFlux LF2x and the newer LF2XT.

As far as chargers, 4sevens sells and recommends the WF-139 charger ($15.50). People who are will willing to spend more often recommend the Pila IBC charger ($45), available at flashlightz.com

4Sevens may sell the WF-139, as do other e-tailers, but it's not the best choice. Check out the Yoho-122, there's a thread around here somewhere.

 

[MajBach]

Read the thread linked in my signature. It should answer all your questions about using Li-ion cells.

Ok so now I need some more specific advice.
I've been shopping around and reading various posts. I found this on amazon (it was a link from a thread somewhere on CPF):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/9575871979/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Now, after reading that very informative guide on Lithium batteries as well as noticing a warning on the 4Sevens site, I am wondering if these batteries from the above link will work in my P2d Fenix light. The flashlight compatability guide also warns that 3.7V cells are not good with the P2D but is the one from amazon a 3.0 or 3.7V? Does this mean it is LiFe P04 chemistry? Is it also a truly protected cell?
I also noticed one review for the charger/batteries stating that there are 1300 mAh RCRs out there. Are these for real or to good to be true?


I also have an M20 Warrior light that seems to eat CR123s which is the primary reason for wanting to get a charger. One thing I have noticed with this light is that even with brand new CR123s, the light flashes three times indicating low voltage. This has appeared in some of the reveiws for this light. Yet, this is with 2x CR123 @ 3.0V. If at 6.0 V I am getting a low voltage, how does this thing run with a single 18650 running at half that?

I also cannot seem to find AW batteries for sale via the MArketplace. Can someone post a link?

Thanks
PS. I don't know why the BOLD kept going on and off. Cut and pasting perhaps.

 

[clintb]

If the compatibility guide states 3.7V RCR123 should not be used with the P2d, then I certainly wouldn't steer you otherwise. I imagine it's a good warning to take heed.

As for the batteries linked in your post, here's more information.
http://www.batteryjunction.com/rc390reliba.html
Take notice of the part that states it's internally 3.7V, but has a voltage regulator that takes it down to 3.0-3.2V. You should be able to use this in your P2d.

Selfbuilt has done a thourough review of the M20. I encourage you to check out the runtime graphs and make a decision on your battery choice from the info provided.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=209384

AW sales thread:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=197375