Some Surefire Questions

[digitaldave]

I've been reading around about some of the Surefire range, and all I've managed to do is get myself confused . So, I have a couple of questions that I hope you guys can answer...

1) I've read that the Surefire range isn't recommended to be used with rechargeable 123 batteries, and one review said that you get a flashing light if you use them. Is this because recharegables are usually about 3.7v? If so, would the problems be solved by using a 3v version such as these ones?

2) Is there a good, reliable and reasonably priced dealer in the UK? Or would I order direct from Surefire's web site?

3) The output levels quoted on Surefire's web site seem to be lower than equivalent lights from other manufacturers. Is this just a case of different people using different measurement techniques (or heaven forbid, reporting inaccurate values!)? If so, how on earth is one supposed to evaluate the output levels in order to compare against lights from other manufacturers? Apart from reading reviews on here of course .

4) Finally, and probably contriversially, what's all the fuss about? Please don't start a flame war, I'm just interested from a noobs point of view as to why so many people like and recommend them .

Thanks,

Dave.

 

[HeadCSO]

Can't help with question 1, but here goes with the rest:

2. There are no reasonably priced UK suppliers (as compared to US prices). I assume the price is fixed by Surefire as every suppliers prices are roughly the same. I have 2 Surefires, one bought in the US and one in the UK. The UK one was from www.heinnie.com.

3. Surefire rate their lumens from out the front of the light. Some manufacturers rate lumens at the LED, with the actual light projected out the front being less. Surefire are also more conservative with their lumens claims. For example, the current L1 is rated by Surefire at 65 lumens, but many members on this forum think the light is brighter than this.

4. This is purely a matter of personal opinion. My first Surefire, the L4, was bought for me as a present. At the time, I was still using an AA mini mag, so the L4 was pretty amazing. The build quality and finish was fantastic and it felt really good in the hand.

I think many members on this forum with Surefires probably started with a 6P. Despite the age of this light, it is still a popular choice and I think quite rightly, it is now considered as a design classic.

 

[Hitthespot]

1) I've read that the Surefire range isn't recommended to be used with rechargeable 123 batteries, and one review said that you get a flashing light if you use them. Is this because recharegables are usually about 3.7v?
Dave.

Yes, It is because most of the SureFires are designed for Primary battery use only, not rechargables. Since you posted in the General forum I'm going to assume you could be purchasing either incand or LED. The Incand (bulb lights ) are much more sensitive to voltage differences and in many cases will blow the bulb immediately with higher voltages applied. With the LED SureFires, I have heard of some cases now ( like with the E2DL ) where they will accept the 3.7volt rechargeables, although I have not tried it myself.

I hope this helps.

Oh and Welcome to CPF!

Bill

 

[Size15's]

I have purchased SureFires from Asia (Korea for example).

SureFire Dealers in the USA, and SureFire themselves will not sell to international customers.
SureFire's approach to international markets appears to be contracting distributor rights to a company which then builds a local dealer/retail network.

As for what the fuss is all about - I seriously suggest that this is best discovered through handling and using the products.
This is difficult for international customers but well worth the effort in my experience.

When one can purchase 'brighter flashlights for much less that are similar' it's worth making sure that a SureFire is a worthwhile investment.
Whilst some differences may be immediately obvious - the majority of differences become increasingly apparent through use over time.

I hope this helps

Al

 

[KeyGrip]

4) Finally, and probably contriversially, what's all the fuss about? Please don't start a flame war, I'm just interested from a noobs point of view as to why so many people like and recommend them .

Good question, and one I'm sure a lot of new members have. SureFire makes good lights. Many people here think they are the best of the best, and many people think they suck because they take a while to get lights out to the market and don't try to compete in the absolute brightness contest. The price of the lights is usually the most divisive point. Many people ask why they cost so much but "only put out X lumens." There are many reasons SF charges so much for a light, but it boils down to their place of manufacture, their choice of materials, and their R&D costs.

I should stress that while they make great lights, they are not aurtomatically the best light for any situation, and proper research should be done before buying a light that you might not use.

 

[Gunner12]

1) Incans will pop when they are overdriven too much. Some of the LED light's drivers can't handle the higher voltage and will burn out.

2)I don't know.

3)Surefire rates minimal out the front lumen. Depending on the light, this number can be 60% lower then at the emitter/bulb lumen. Most companies display the at the LED or Bulb lumen so they will be higher since the losses through the reflector/optic is not included.

4)I have no idea either. I guess it is because for many that is where they started. Surefire has many stories about their lights being tough. Surefire has been around for a decent amount of time. Surefire has good quality(not the best, but many would argue with me on this). Some are worried about other lights. Some dislike lights not made in their home country. Some don't like lights that they deem inferior due to them not being a Surefire or a custom. Some... the list goes on.

 

[Kilovolt]

2) Is there a good, reliable and reasonably priced dealer in the UK? Or would I order direct from Surefire's web site?

Always remembering that US made lights regularly imported into Europe have had to pay custom duties and VAT I find the prices of this UK dealer rather good.

 

[mdocod]

I've been reading around about some of the Surefire range, and all I've managed to do is get myself confused . So, I have a couple of questions that I hope you guys can answer...

1) I've read that the Surefire range isn't recommended to be used with rechargeable 123 batteries, and one review said that you get a flashing light if you use them. Is this because recharegables are usually about 3.7v? If so, would the problems be solved by using a 3v version such as these ones?

click the link in my sig line to the guide/chart to gain some insight into how rechargeable configurations are accomplished with lithium powered lights. I am also working on another guide/compatibility chart that will cover a broader sense of rechargability, focusing primarily on unmodified and LED lights. That can be found here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=201375
it's not done yet, but I'll start adding lights in the coming days/weeks.

2) Is there a good, reliable and reasonably priced dealer in the UK? Or would I order direct from Surefire's web site?

no clue sorry.

3) The output levels quoted on Surefire's web site seem to be lower than equivalent lights from other manufacturers. Is this just a case of different people using different measurement techniques (or heaven forbid, reporting inaccurate values!)? If so, how on earth is one supposed to evaluate the output levels in order to compare against lights from other manufacturers? Apart from reading reviews on here of course .

from what I have been able to figure, Surefire rates true conservative torch lumens on partially discharged batteries. To compare to other manufactures you'll often have to *nearly* double the number surefire is telling you. But it does depend on how whoever you are comparing to does their own measuring, most tend to just list bulb/emitter lumens on fresh cells, and even that is sometimes grossly exaggerated. In other cases it really isn't to far off from realistic numbers. But try not to get too hung up on lumens because it takes a HUGE difference in lumens to have a noteworthy difference in noticeable performance. 30% differences are barely visible, multiply by 2-3 if you want to see a difference.

4) Finally, and probably contriversially, what's all the fuss about? Please don't start a flame war, I'm just interested from a noobs point of view as to why so many people like and recommend them .

Thanks,

Overall: solid lights, good warranty, good customer service. I can't personally afford them, so maybe I will someday have more to say here

 

[digitaldave]

Thanks for all the replies everyone .

Hitthespot - to be honest, I have no idea of I'll even actually get a Surefire torch, my post was mainly just me wondering about a few SF related questions that I had built up. Although if I do end up getting one, it will probably be a LED rather than an incan. But which one??? L1, E1L, E1B, 6P LED. Guess it's time to start doing some more research in to outputs, run times, UIs etc... .

modcod - thanks for the links, I'll have a good read of the existing one, and keep an eye on the new one as well.

Dave.

 

[blinder switch]

I've been reading around about some of the Surefire range, and all I've managed to do is get myself confused . So, I have a couple of questions that I hope you guys can answer...

1) I've read that the Surefire range isn't recommended to be used with rechargeable 123 batteries, and one review said that you get a flashing light if you use them. Is this because recharegables are usually about 3.7v? If so, would the problems be solved by using a 3v version such as these ones?

I would use only SF batteries for my lights. YMMV

2) Is there a good, reliable and reasonably priced dealer in the UK? Or would I order direct from Surefire's web site?

Sorry, no real info for you here, but some of the other posters in this thread have intel. When I have ordered from SureFires web site, the products were great and on time.

3) The output levels quoted on Surefire's web site seem to be lower than equivalent lights from other manufacturers. Is this just a case of different people using different measurement techniques (or heaven forbid, reporting inaccurate values!)? If so, how on earth is one supposed to evaluate the output levels in order to compare against lights from other manufacturers? Apart from reading reviews on here of course .

As others have noted about the true measurements of lumens, well SF even has custom built stuff, and I also have faith in the fact that a quality company like SureFire, will make products in the illumination industry top-notch. I know that my lights are damn good.

4) Finally, and probably contriversially, what's all the fuss about? Please don't start a flame war, I'm just interested from a noobs point of view as to why so many people like and recommend them .

For myself, I needed quality carbine light mounts and the 1st mount (LaRue LT-606 w/ 1. rings) came with a SF 6P. I did my research, got some more SF lights, and I just happen to favor SF lights just a tad over some others. Now I use 2 E2DLs with the QD offset mounts, and it works great. I have yet to have someone here locally to show me a better flashlight also. So far SureFire dominates.

Thanks,

Dave.

I've noticed that after a while getting used to working with a good, reliable tool, things just seem to work really well.

 

[tx101]

I'm a noob as well

in my opinon if you pick up a Surefire and then a China-made light

you will immediately know where the money has gone.

Its a question of quality and I think Surefire cannot be beaten.

I have a Z2, that was purchased over 10 years ago and used until recently

as a EDC .... it still works.

As for buying a Surefire in the UK .... they are way too expensive

your better off buying from the US and if your lucky it will go thru

without being stung by VAT/customs duty.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Don't fight it, resistance is futile! You will all be assimilated.

There is no cure for the SureFire bug!

 

[LumenMan]

Don't fight it, resistance is futile! You will all be assimilated.

There is no cure for the SureFire bug!

:laughing::thumbsup:

 

[lumenal]

Heres a SureFire question -

What is SureFire's logic in having to unscrew the head of some of their smaller lights in order to change out the battery?

As opposed to just unscrewing the tailcap to change cells?

 

[KeyGrip]

It's a quirky tolerance issue. I agree it makes little sense on their incandescent models because the lamp could fall out. I don't mind so much when I'm running an LED head.

 

[Toohotruk]

I suggest you get a 6P...relatively cheap, yet it has the unmistakable Surefire quality. Plus there are a plethora of upgrades for 6Ps...drop-ins, tailcaps, bezels etc. Check my sigline for what I believe to be the best of the best LED drop-in modules...IMHO, nothing beats a 6P with a Malkoff M60. And you can use rechargeables! Expensive, but well worth it! Quality doesn't come cheap.

I was skeptical myself about what the fuss is over SF...then I got a 6P and it became very clear why there are so many rabid Surefire devotees around here. While I believe that it's entirely possible there are other brands of lights that equal SF quality, I seriously doubt that any would surpass it.

 

[climberkid]

just be very careful when submerging the 6p, especially if you twist it on/off. bad idea.....:mecry:

 

[blinder switch]

]just be very careful when submerging the 6p[/B], especially if you twist it on/off. bad idea.....:mecry:

That is true, but the model 6P-N is made to go swimming, yet I don't know what the maximum depth would be.

blinder switch

 

[flashy bazook]

Let us not forget one more element on the Surefire pricing--they simply charge MORE to get a BIGGER PROFIT!

Up to you whether it's worth your while to pay for a higher profit (as opposed to paying for more expensive materials, more expensive wages, etc.) to get a particular product.

 

[DM51]

flashy bazook, that is crass nonsense. Please take a day off to read this thread.